A few questions about getting started

_Resolve_
_Resolve_ Posts: 735 Member
Hello all

I’ve been eating pretty much a clean diet for just over a year and a half, lost a considerable amount of weight. I hardly eat much bread, no dairy but still enjoy peanut butter. My macro’s are currently 40c 40p 20f. I do CrossFit 5x a week and also do endurance cycling at least once a week averaging over 50 miles when I ride. I have been thinking about taking the leap into paleo for some time but my only hesitation is how it will affect my cycling. I am also a type 2 diabetic but have been managing without medication for about a year.

Curious for thoughts about endurance activities while eating paleo
Proper macros to try and hit
Experience with type 2 diabetes
Calorie intake – I have read it is more like you eat when hungry but I am a numbers person and like to track what I eat and have a goal in mind.

My current goals are to lower bf% and build lean muscle/strength, I am eating 2600 calories a day. 5’ 6” 215(ish) lbs

Any advice/suggestions welcome. :drinker:

Thanks!

Replies

  • Akimajuktuq
    Akimajuktuq Posts: 3,037 Member
    I had many illnesses pre-Paleo, including on the verge of Type 2 diabetes. See my story in "Success Stories".

    First big thing: why so low fat and high carb and high protein?! For type 2 diabetes you would definitely benefit from a low carb, moderate protein (20-30%), high fat food plan. I was ketogenic for a long time and now I've raised my carbs to about 10% of my food. Fat is my most important macro if I want to stay feeling great and work towards healing a severely disordered metabolism. I understand that you are very active but you will still be active and healthy on 10-20% carbs.

    I would highly recommend giving up wheat completely. Best thing I ever did and I will never go back to eating it ever.

    50% fat (with lots of natural saturated fats) is a BARE minimum imo. With type 2 diabetes I would say even higher, such as 60-70%. Low fat is about the worst thing you can be doing for your health situation.
  • _Resolve_
    _Resolve_ Posts: 735 Member
    I had many illnesses pre-Paleo, including on the verge of Type 2 diabetes. See my story in "Success Stories".

    First big thing: why so low fat and high carb and high protein?! For type 2 diabetes you would definitely benefit from a low carb, moderate protein (20-30%), high fat food plan. I was ketogenic for a long time and now I've raised my carbs to about 10% of my food. Fat is my most important macro if I want to stay feeling great and work towards healing a severely disordered metabolism. I understand that you are very active but you will still be active and healthy on 10-20% carbs.

    I would highly recommend giving up wheat completely. Best thing I ever did and I will never go back to eating it ever.

    50% fat (with lots of natural saturated fats) is a BARE minimum imo. With type 2 diabetes I would say even higher, such as 60-70%. Low fat is about the worst thing you can be doing for your health situation.

    Thanks for the recommendations

    I have followed the advice of a dietitian who designed my macros and helped me lose all my weight. Honestly I didn't ask why she suggested what she did, it worked. The carbs as I understood it was to keep me fueled for the long cycling trips, but now that I am strength training much more and really don't eat wheat all that often I think I would feel better eating paleo.

    Really curious about endurance activities while following paleo.
  • Akimajuktuq
    Akimajuktuq Posts: 3,037 Member
    I had many illnesses pre-Paleo, including on the verge of Type 2 diabetes. See my story in "Success Stories".

    First big thing: why so low fat and high carb and high protein?! For type 2 diabetes you would definitely benefit from a low carb, moderate protein (20-30%), high fat food plan. I was ketogenic for a long time and now I've raised my carbs to about 10% of my food. Fat is my most important macro if I want to stay feeling great and work towards healing a severely disordered metabolism. I understand that you are very active but you will still be active and healthy on 10-20% carbs.

    I would highly recommend giving up wheat completely. Best thing I ever did and I will never go back to eating it ever.

    50% fat (with lots of natural saturated fats) is a BARE minimum imo. With type 2 diabetes I would say even higher, such as 60-70%. Low fat is about the worst thing you can be doing for your health situation.

    Thanks for the recommendations

    I have followed the advice of a dietitian who designed my macros and helped me lose all my weight. Honestly I didn't ask why she suggested what she did, it worked. The carbs as I understood it was to keep me fueled for the long cycling trips, but now that I am strength training much more and really don't eat wheat all that often I think I would feel better eating paleo.

    Really curious about endurance activities while following paleo.


    You will find most of us here very in favour of a healthy level of fat. Doctors, dieticians, nutritionists are mostly following SAD recommendations and many of us here followed the "fat is bad" advice for years and destroyed our health because of it. I hope that you decide to look beyond the advice of the dietician. Weight loss is not the only measure of health, and keeping it off long term, with a disordered metabolism, is the hard part. The pinned "Recommended Reading" is a great place to get started for more information.
  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,600 Member
    You're quite lucky to have lost weight as a diabetic on that macro spread, in my opinion. I'd venture to guess that it's from the sheer volume of exercising you do, as that amount burns off the sugar very quickly and has insulin-sensitizing effects. Otherwise, that amount of carbs and protein would result in quite a lot of circulating insulin and subsequent increases in insulin resistance. I think that with that amount of exercising, you could reverse your Diabetic state entirely (or long-term remission or whatever the medical industry uses for instance where a chronic disease is reversed, but they don't want to say "cured"), if you adjusted your diet to something that didn't put so much strain on your pancreas.

    I recommend checking out Dr. Peter Attia's personal experience with insulin resistance and a LC/HF Keto diet (it's got good info on why he did it, and its affects not only on his insulin resistance, but also on his athletic performance, which is intense to the extreme):
    http://eatingacademy.com/my-personal-nutrition-journey

    Aside from that, I generally recommend the following macro spread:

    Protein - about 1g/lb of lean body mass. With the amount you do, you might want to go a little higher, to help counter the protein-metabolizing effects of the long bike rides, especially on ride day and the day or two after. You need enough to maintain/build muscle, but not so much that it gets stored and used for fuel (protein gets turned to sugar when used for fuel, which defeats the purpose of low carb, moderate protein, high fat).

    Fat - no less than .45g/lb of total body weight, though I agree with Akima to favor fat over carbs in general. T2D is caused by the body's inability to deal with the amount of insulin in the body, so you want to minimize the amount of insulin required to handle your food input. Personally, I set my carbs and protein to where I want/need them, then fill the rest in with fat.

    Carbs - under 100g most days (long ride days, you might be able to get away with more, especially if dealing with hills and headwinds, but still try to keep fat as your favored fuel source). Get your carbs from non-starchy vegetables and low-GI fruits (berries, etc). These have a lot of fiber (good for the gut) and nutrients. Except for fiber (which isn't actually digested, but fermented by our gut flora and/or used to bulk up fecal matter), carbs are carbs are carbs. It all ultimately turns to sugar, and the sugar goes to the bloodstream. With impaired insulin sensitivity, your blood sugar is more likely to get to the level of damage, and at that point, it doesn't matter if it goes to 300 for 20 minutes or 180 for 4 hours -- it's still doing damage and still taxing your already-strained pancreas.

    Caloric intake - Look for a TDEE calculator and figure out your calories needed to maintain and use that number as your guide. I don't know your age, but from the rest of the information I put in, you could probably go up to around 3000 calories or so and still maintain. This will allow you to slowly build muscle and lower body fat, while properly fueling your workouts. Alternatively, if you want to lose body fat a little faster, then drop your intake by about 200 calories a day. Conversely, if you want to actively gain muscle, increase your intake by about 200 calories a day.

    (My experience is with polycystic ovarian syndrome with insulin resistance, a cousin of type 2 diabetes that can lead to "full-blown" type 2 diabetes if not carefully and sternly dealt with.)
  • _Resolve_
    _Resolve_ Posts: 735 Member
    Thank you for all the info. For over a year my macro spread was even more carb heavy 50/30/20. I believe you are correct that the amount of training I do played a huge part in my weight loss. My last A1C showed a below normal sugar level, so I am in reversal or remission or whatever they call it. I did pick up the primal blueprint book and will begin to read it tonight and will also check out the link you provided. Thanks for the macro suggestions, obviously this is going to be a big switch from what I am used to doing but the more I read about primal & paleo the more I want to make the switch. The hardest part will be to get over the "fat is bad" idea that has been beaten into our brains.

    Now that I have completed my century ride I don't plan on ever being on the bike for more than 60 miles at a time, Ill research what other cyclist do for natural snacks and give it a try on my next metric century. I'm tired of eating all the carbs, its time to switch things up again and I really appreciate the feedback you have all given me.
  • MikeFlyMike
    MikeFlyMike Posts: 639 Member
    There are a ton of studies and clinical info about eating fat that would help - but I found my friends always continuing to tell me I was killing myself with all the fat I eat.
    I then offer to share my blood tests and hormone tests which I am happy to put money that they are significantly better than anyone around me.

    Found it interesting that now people are sending me the article that time magazine did an article on how good butter is for you.
    http://time.com/2863227/ending-the-war-on-fat/?pcd=hp-magmod

    Know that the majority of vitamins are fat soluble and hormones are created when fat and cholesterol are in adequate levels in the body

    (typing while drinking butter in my coffee right now) lol.
  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,600 Member
    Thank you for all the info. For over a year my macro spread was even more carb heavy 50/30/20. I believe you are correct that the amount of training I do played a huge part in my weight loss. My last A1C showed a below normal sugar level, so I am in reversal or remission or whatever they call it. I did pick up the primal blueprint book and will begin to read it tonight and will also check out the link you provided. Thanks for the macro suggestions, obviously this is going to be a big switch from what I am used to doing but the more I read about primal & paleo the more I want to make the switch. The hardest part will be to get over the "fat is bad" idea that has been beaten into our brains.

    Now that I have completed my century ride I don't plan on ever being on the bike for more than 60 miles at a time, Ill research what other cyclist do for natural snacks and give it a try on my next metric century. I'm tired of eating all the carbs, its time to switch things up again and I really appreciate the feedback you have all given me.

    Have you have your fasting insulin checked recently? I know it's supposedly not as important for T2D (and as a male, your endocrine system is a little more tolerant), but low blood sugar can actually be indicative of high insulin, which, in turn, is indicative of insulin resistance (since IR is, by definition, the need of the body to use more insulin to keep glucose in check, and sometimes it overcompensates). I'm of the opinion that glucose is only half of the equation and if nothing else, it's good to keep an eye on your insulin, too, but feel free to take this part with a grain of salt.
  • _Resolve_
    _Resolve_ Posts: 735 Member
    Thank you for all the info. For over a year my macro spread was even more carb heavy 50/30/20. I believe you are correct that the amount of training I do played a huge part in my weight loss. My last A1C showed a below normal sugar level, so I am in reversal or remission or whatever they call it. I did pick up the primal blueprint book and will begin to read it tonight and will also check out the link you provided. Thanks for the macro suggestions, obviously this is going to be a big switch from what I am used to doing but the more I read about primal & paleo the more I want to make the switch. The hardest part will be to get over the "fat is bad" idea that has been beaten into our brains.

    Now that I have completed my century ride I don't plan on ever being on the bike for more than 60 miles at a time, Ill research what other cyclist do for natural snacks and give it a try on my next metric century. I'm tired of eating all the carbs, its time to switch things up again and I really appreciate the feedback you have all given me.

    Have you have your fasting insulin checked recently? I know it's supposedly not as important for T2D (and as a male, your endocrine system is a little more tolerant), but low blood sugar can actually be indicative of high insulin, which, in turn, is indicative of insulin resistance (since IR is, by definition, the need of the body to use more insulin to keep glucose in check, and sometimes it overcompensates). I'm of the opinion that glucose is only half of the equation and if nothing else, it's good to keep an eye on your insulin, too, but feel free to take this part with a grain of salt.

    I did, had a full fasting lab work up done about 6 weeks ago. Everything was in the normal range, my A1C was a 4.7%, super proud of that # as I started at a 10.7% A1C which was what earned me the diagnosis. My fasting insulin level was a 72ml/dl, which falls in the non diabetic range. BUT If I take a rest day and don;t burn off the glycogen stores in my blood and not pay attention to what I eat I will feel terrible by the end of the day. Ultimately that is why I wanted to look into primal/paleo more, although I have a good grasp on my health now (compared to two years ago) there is still a ton of room to learn sustainability. I'd rather not HAVE to train hard 6 days a week to not feel like crap. I enjoy what I do, I don't want that feeling of enjoyment to change.
  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,600 Member
    I did, had a full fasting lab work up done about 6 weeks ago. Everything was in the normal range, my A1C was a 4.7%, super proud of that # as I started at a 10.7% A1C which was what earned me the diagnosis. My fasting insulin level was a 72ml/dl, which falls in the non diabetic range. BUT If I take a rest day and don;t burn off the glycogen stores in my blood and not pay attention to what I eat I will feel terrible by the end of the day. Ultimately that is why I wanted to look into primal/paleo more, although I have a good grasp on my health now (compared to two years ago) there is still a ton of room to learn sustainability. I'd rather not HAVE to train hard 6 days a week to not feel like crap. I enjoy what I do, I don't want that feeling of enjoyment to change.

    That's awesome to hear about your numbers!

    The Primal Blueprint should answer a lot of questions you probably still have. As a woman with PCOS, I've found that diet has been a huge factor in keeping my insulin in check, so I've little doubt it will help you from having to work out that much to keep your numbers normal.

    We'll be here if you still have questions after reading Primal Blueprint, though! :drinker:
  • _Resolve_
    _Resolve_ Posts: 735 Member
    Almost a full week in, I feel awesome. I went for my first mountain bike ride today and im happy to say I had no bonking, didnt even need to stop for a snack. I've just about finished reading the Primal Blueprint.

    So far so good! Loving this.