is't a sign of undereating???

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Hi
After metabolic recovery it turns out that my TDEE is around 1700~1750

i started weight losing journey 9 weeks ago (at 1500) weight: 69.8 kg
from 1-8 week i lost 1.6 kg (0.2 kg per week) weight: 68.2 kg

on week 9 i ate at TDEE with the same exercise routine!
but i gained more than 1 kg
this week '10' (Break)
i'm eating 1500 with no exercise
my weight today is 69.2
and the day after tomorrow i will complete the 10th week :(

is that weight gain a sign of undereating (metabolic damage) or is normal thing ?

Replies

  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    When anyone goes in to deficit eating - the body stores less glycogen in the muscles.

    That stores with water.

    First big weight loss.

    When you eat at maintenance - that goes back up.

    Big weight gain.

    And I mean big in the sense you gain like you 1 kg or 2.2 lbs, and you did NOT eat 1000 calories daily over maintenance for a week, let alone even over current deficit amount.

    So your TDEE based on results is actually.

    1.6 kg or 3.5 lbs x 3500 / 56 days = 219

    If daily average eaten during that time was really 1500 on the dot, then TDEE for that level of exercise is really 1500 + 219 = 1719

    Good job. You may have done that math already.

    Good reset too.

    You might think about reversing the order next time around of rest week and diet break.

    After rest week you will recover great and come back stronger the next week doing the workouts.
    That next week is then the week to take a diet break, your body will know exactly what to do with extra calories eating at maintenance.

    Most will finally see an increase in bar weight and such that they can hold on to even when they go back in to a cut.
  • Kotori
    Kotori Posts: 34
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    Okay, after 2 weeks of break
    My weight is 70~69
    Before the break it was 68.3
    And the measurements are less than before but I couldn't notice that difference !!
    Calf -1 cm
    half one thigh -1 cm
    Hips -4 cm
    Waist -2 cm
    I know it might more lean mass but, to gain 2-1 kg that's too much for me
    and the spreadsheet increase the rmr about 60 cal ?
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    Okay, after 2 weeks of break
    My weight is 70~69
    Before the break it was 68.3
    And the measurements are less than before but I couldn't notice that difference !!
    Calf -1 cm
    half one thigh -1 cm
    Hips -4 cm
    Waist -2 cm
    I know it might more lean mass but, to gain 2-1 kg that's too much for me
    and the spreadsheet increase the rmr about 60 cal ?

    Why is a gain of non-fat too much for you?

    If measurements dropped, you lost fat. Or a bunch of the strangest stored water to be in those locations.

    Sure, as LBM goes up, BMR goes up. You burn now at rest. Even water in the cells must be dealt with and requires energy.
    So as soon as you go back in to a deficit, you'll lose some of that water weight again, and BMR will lower again.
    And some of that weight will be gone.

    Congrats on fat loss and great reset. Enjoy the renewed strength in your workouts.
  • Kotori
    Kotori Posts: 34
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    the weird thing is that I'm at deficit (1500 cal) for 2 weeks after the break!
    but i gained about 2-1.5 kg instead of losing more weight
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    the weird thing is that I'm at deficit (1500 cal) for 2 weeks after the break!
    but i gained about 2-1.5 kg instead of losing more weight

    Over the whole 2 weeks, or in the first week, you gained that amount?

    So you were eating around 1700 prior to the reset, with exercise being done?

    So obviously water weight, just depends on why.

    Also do the math - is it even possible for it to be fat?
    If it was, what would that imply regarding your eating level?
  • Kotori
    Kotori Posts: 34
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    i just notice that i have been taking metformin for about 5 weeks since the 2nd week of starting losing weight until the 6th week (of course its obgyn doctor's prescription)
    after stopping metformin i lost only 0.5 kg in two weeks (@week 7&8) instead of losing 0.6-0.7 kg in two weeks as the previous 5 weeks (my weight was 68.2 kg)

    then the week 9 and 10 were break (and my weight increase 1 kg but i thought its normal after the break) (my weight was 69.2 kg)
    week11 was period
    week12 which is gaining another 1 kg my weight was 70 kg!! (i thought its because of muscle soreness)
    Now, after 2 days I'll complete week 13 and my weight still between 70-68.8
    the scale show me 68.3 yesterday only after fasting for 6 hrs in the morning :(
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    So one of the big things thyroid does is determine hormones that are going to suppress your activity.
    Oh, you can still push yourself to the gym but may be a tad harder, because generally you feel more tired.

    Are you really just as active during the day now as you were when taking the meds?

    With the weight loss, you did recalc your TDEE, right, and eat at new level?

    Usually for every 10 lbs or 5 kg lost, your TDEE goes down by 100 calories just from moving less mass around daily, and you therefore need to eat almost that must less too.

    Fasting and if resting doesn't mean you are burning much at all. Tad higher than BMR / 24 x 6 is how much you would have burned, mainly fat. That amount of calories / 9 = grams. Really that many grams?
  • Kotori
    Kotori Posts: 34
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    I only lost 1.6 kg during 8 week (included the 5 weeks of taking med)
    So I didn't recalc my TDEE
    After the break I become less active (walking one hour or two weekly instead of 4 hrs) but it doesn't mean gaining weight because I'm already cutting after the break (1500 cal) I wouldn't bothered if i maintained my weight
    but I do believe its water weight because the measurements doesn't change
    I'm taking the med back because I didn't complete the course because i thought weight training and cardio would help without taking the med
    But do you have any explanation of gaining that weight ?
    Do you think that I couldnt lose weight without med, because I really read that happened to a lot of people and it does happened to me off course with exersice and cutting cal
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    It's possible, if the hormones being off make you more tired, and you move less daily, and if you don't adjust calorie level to match, then indeed you won't lose.
    That's where a Fitbit is might useful, not only in seeing how active daily, but they also have seen the studies that it's the daily non-exercise activity being kept up that is a big factor in weight loss. That non-stressful fat-burning daily activity.

    Now the problem is that same effect of not moving as much is also a result of undereating by too much more than what the body wants. So you'll find people on Fitbit's with same issue, taking 1000 cal deficit, coming under goal by 200-300 calories, not logging exercise that Fitbit has underestimated - and so it's no surprise they they also start losing less and less weight, even though the device may inspire them to keep walking despite what the body is trying to do.

    Because that response of the body is to conserve calories for more important things. If you go against it and keep the daily activity up, it'll just find another place to adjust, and that's usually becoming more metabolically efficient, and not doing some of the lower level metabolism stuff as frequently. Or performance in exercise drops, burning less than previously.

    All you can do is clearly come in from the high side, have totally valid weigh-ins, and adjust from there.
    But as you agree, can't really include a clear water weight gain in that math, or it'll send eating level wrong direction big time.

    As to why the water weight gain - has stress increased or lack of recovery, lack of sleep?
    Constantly elevated cortisol can cause 10-20 lb gain of water weight. Incredible. As to where it puts it, may not be where you are measuring. Especially if fat is still coming off but water in the muscles underneath.
  • Kotori
    Kotori Posts: 34
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    Recently I only sleep after dawn but I don't think that will affect my weight that much
    The problem is that gain (1 kg) hasn't dropped off until now
    How can I track my weight, I'm really confused and depressebed

    I think that reaction is because I didn't take a cheat meal in the past 10 weeks
    I thought that one week break would be enough but it seems not
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    Cheat meal isn't going to do anything for your metabolism.
    If it makes the day up around TDEE, then fine, no weight loss that day.
    If it way over TDEE for that day, then fat gain.

    But it's way too, short for any kind of positive effects on metabolism or hormones, just good mental perhaps.

    Your stress about this is probably causing water retention at this point.

    Don't understand your comment about sleep after dawn.

    When you sleep can certainly mess with rhythm hormones and that can cause stress on body - but much bigger than that is the fact sleep and lack of it can effect weight loss - because it's a stress on the body.
    Couple that with less recovery from workouts, even more stress.
    Stress elevates cortisol, that retains water, and body will adapt to stress many times by slowing down.

    So in case you think sleep and weight loss have no bearing together, very wrong.
  • Kotori
    Kotori Posts: 34
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    I mean I don't sleep at night at all since month ago
    I sleep from 5 am - 2 pm
    And I only skip body weight training the last week
    Should I maintain at 1700 for two weeks?
    Because I don't think I'm losing at cutting now, I'm just retaining that kilo and I almost believe it won't drop off :|
    Or do you know a way to drop off that water weight? I drink about 1.5- 2L water daily but it doesn't help
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    Have a refeed day eating at estimated TDEE, with protein kept at same grams, and bigger % of carbs - much bigger.

    End the day with a stiff drink if you can, not wine or beer, spirits.
  • alioopwontonsoup
    alioopwontonsoup Posts: 17 Member
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    When anyone goes in to deficit eating - the body stores less glycogen in the muscles.

    That stores with water.

    First big weight loss.

    When you eat at maintenance - that goes back up.

    Big weight gain.

    And I mean big in the sense you gain like you 1 kg or 2.2 lbs, and you did NOT eat 1000 calories daily over maintenance for a week, let alone even over current deficit amount.

    So your TDEE based on results is actually.

    1.6 kg or 3.5 lbs x 3500 / 56 days = 219

    If daily average eaten during that time was really 1500 on the dot, then TDEE for that level of exercise is really 1500 + 219 = 1719

    Good job. You may have done that math already.

    Good reset too.

    You might think about reversing the order next time around of rest week and diet break.

    After rest week you will recover great and come back stronger the next week doing the workouts.
    That next week is then the week to take a diet break, your body will know exactly what to do with extra calories eating at maintenance.

    Most will finally see an increase in bar weight and such that they can hold on to even when they go back in to a cut.

    you are talking about all these numbers and a reset and you sound very knowledgeable and I'd like to know what you're talking about. would you mind explaining to a lowly noob? I would like to learn more and possibly apply these numbers/principles to my own weight loss goals :S
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Options
    When anyone goes in to deficit eating - the body stores less glycogen in the muscles.

    That stores with water.

    First big weight loss.

    When you eat at maintenance - that goes back up.

    Big weight gain.

    And I mean big in the sense you gain like you 1 kg or 2.2 lbs, and you did NOT eat 1000 calories daily over maintenance for a week, let alone even over current deficit amount.

    So your TDEE based on results is actually.

    1.6 kg or 3.5 lbs x 3500 / 56 days = 219

    If daily average eaten during that time was really 1500 on the dot, then TDEE for that level of exercise is really 1500 + 219 = 1719

    Good job. You may have done that math already.

    Good reset too.

    You might think about reversing the order next time around of rest week and diet break.

    After rest week you will recover great and come back stronger the next week doing the workouts.
    That next week is then the week to take a diet break, your body will know exactly what to do with extra calories eating at maintenance.

    Most will finally see an increase in bar weight and such that they can hold on to even when they go back in to a cut.

    you are talking about all these numbers and a reset and you sound very knowledgeable and I'd like to know what you're talking about. would you mind explaining to a lowly noob? I would like to learn more and possibly apply these numbers/principles to my own weight loss goals :S

    Most of that info is just facts to keep in mind regarding why you see or don't see some weight loss, and what's behind big changes.

    It would be like thinking there is something wrong with your car because gas mileage really sucked.
    But if you knew you were doing headwind the entire time and moving from Kansas valley to the Colorado mountains, well then, not actually bad at all compared to the sticker avgMPG estimate.

    Not sure which part you are wanting more info on.
    Water weight changes are the biggest and fastest weight fluctuations, and can go both directions while losing fat.

    Easiest known water weight change, carbs store in muscles attached with water.
    When you go in to a diet - you store less carbs in muscles.
    When you come out - you store more.

    The amount of deficit and type/amount of exercise dictate how fast and much that change is.

    You can discern several things just by fast vs slow weight gain or loss.