Why am I insatiable at night on keto?
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amandarsmiles
Posts: 16
I'm 5'8 female, 33yo, ~145 lbs, doing well keeping my macros at about 20 net grams of carbs daily, keeping my fats very high (~70%) and my protein moderate at about 20%. But almost every-other-night I am insatiable until I have eaten 2000 calories in just dinner and after dinner snacks (snacking because of cravings or hunger). So this means that every-other-day, I am eating 2600 to 2800 calories in the whole day. I workout with a trainer two days a week and it is always the night after a workout and sometimes one additional night per week that I eat like that. My normal "goal" Is to eat around 1200-1350 calories a day while keeping carbs at or below 20 net grams and keeping my fat at around 70%; the remaining 20% or so is for protein. Obviously I have not lost any weight and I have been doing keto for five months with only three "cheat weekends" where I ate a lot of sugar and bread during this five month period. One other thing that I failed to mention is... since starting my keto lifestyle, I have experienced only one period. My period used to come every 23 to 25 days and since being on keto, I have only experienced one period in five months. I know I'm not pregnant because I have taken multiple tests. I have even seen my doctor (not the gynecologist) and had my thyroid tested. My tests came back with fine results; so there were no indications of a thyroid problem. So does anyone know why I am insatiable most nights? Am I just having cravings or is it legitimate hunger due to "needing 2800 calories two to three days a week "? And does anyone know what could be causing my "loss of periods" ( I am currently almost a month past due right now)?
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Replies
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Ok, let's break this down.
First, I'm 5'8 and eat at a 20% deficit which puts me around 1500-1600. So you are definitely eating at a very challenging deficit. It's basically catching up with you. What's your TDEE?
Second, what does 20% protein mean? How many grams is that? For your height you should targeting at least 90g of protein a day, and on workout days close to 110g. Protein is very important for satiety and muscle rebuilding.
Third, what does your workout look like? How strenuous would you say it is? Do you eat back calories burned? You may want to consider upping calories on workout days in preparation for that hard work. It really helps quell hunger the following day.
Try targeting a 20% deficit from your TDEE. find that your weekly calories look like on that, then split that up, so workout days have slightly more calories, rest days have slightly less. That will help with hunger issues at night.
For me, that's about 11,000kcals a week. On workout days I'll eat and extra 300-500kcals and cut that out on rest days.0 -
Thank you for the advice. I thought I might have been depriving myself but there is so much conflicting information on the internet. I might hit you up for some more advice tonight as I seem to think better at night . Thank you again!0
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Your diary is private.0
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Ok, I changed the goals on MFP to reflect "90g of protein" and 65% greater calories coming from fat while maintaining 5% carbs (keeping carb count below 20g). My calorie count still comes to 1200. My TDEE is 1940 and my BMR is 1411. How do I use my BMR and TDEE to determine how many calories I should consume on a non-workout day and then on a workout day? My BMI is 22, how do I determine what my body fat% is? Is there a formula?0
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Your calorie count goal should never be below your BMR so on non-work-out days you should eat some amount higher then 1411 and on work out days is should be higher then 1411 plus the calories you burned working out. And as your BMI is in a healthy range you should aim for slower weight loss so if I were you I would eat slightly below my TDEE.0
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I found a great article someone wrote about a year ago on here that spells out the relationship between BMR and TDEE and how to determine deficit from TDEE for weight loss. Hopefully it helps!
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/931670-bmr-and-tdee-explained-for-those-needing-a-guide0 -
I've had the same issue at times and it all comes back to my intake on workout days.
Per the Keto Calculator on r/Keto my BMR is 1527 and my TDEE is 2099.
My daily goal on MFP is set at 1400.
I usually make that, or go slightly over. But since that is a 35% deficit (which is probably too large to be honest) I don't have to stress if I go over by a hundred or so calories.
So, from my experience (YMMV):
Definitely eat back calories burned during exercise. MFP overestimates calories burned, but still...you should do what you can to eat back the majority of what it says. On workout days when I don't plan properly and fail to eat back, I am insatiable the following afternoon and evening. I honestly feel as though I couldn't possibly eat enough.
If I do plan properly, I'll eat over 2000 calories and feel fine over the next few days just eating my 1400 to 1500.
You asked about body fat %. There are formulas using body measurements as well as height/age/weight...but the best way to measure is to buy the calipers. Unfortunately, body composition is so different from person to person that BMI is just a wild ballpark guess. Two people same sex same height same weight can still have drastically different body fat numbers due to exercise and how much lean muscle mass they each carry.0 -
Or you can just listen to your body and eat till you are full. The problem I have with the TDEE, BMR numbers from websites is they assume your metabolism is constant. It's not, just listen to your body while watching carbs and protein. My best fat burns occurred when I was 80% fat, 15 % protein and 5% carbs. I follow 1 gm per kg of lean body mass for fat burn and usually bump up protein to 1g per LB of LBM to bulk up.0
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Thank you for explaining what your experiences have been with this issue that I've described. Do you eat the greater number of calories that you mentioned (I think you wrote: 2000) on the day of your workout (before or after and how long before or after) or the next day? I am only asking because I get the impression from most, it should be done right after. But like I wrote, I'm very hungry like 20 hours after. If I try to eat right after a workout, I'm force feeding myself, because I'm really not at all hungry for many many hours! If I eat the extra calories before a workout, I am still force feeding (because I'm really not hungry) and then I have a queasy feeling during the workout.
I am seriously worried that I may have really hurt my body and screwed myself all up from going strict keto (very strict with carbs, really high fat, possibly too low protein from what I've been advised on these forums), bing eating when insatiable, under-calorie eating (thanks to the many calculators telling me to eat 1200). Because there is so much conflicting info all over the internet; I'm at a complete loss and have no idea what to do.
Any encouraging advice on how to "re-start" my metabolism or just heal my body and start over would be great.0 -
Dear Leonidas,
So you described "fat burns" can you please tell me what you mean? I assume you mean that you have worked out really hard, but how do you know that you've experienced great fat burn? I have not experienced much energy at all while eating very high fat and low carb; but then again, I believe I have not been eating enough protein. I read somewhere that I should consume somewhere around 45-60 grams of protein! Otherwise, I could get out of ketosis..As a result, I was always afraid to over eat protein. So how do you get great fat burn and does 1g of protein per lb of LBM daily in your diet have a great deal to do with it? However, is it the type of workout that you are doing or something else?
I will use the "quote" feature next time! Sorry, I'm new
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First of all, relax and take a deep breathe. You are worrying too much, there is no such thing as damaging your metabolism in 5 weeks. Your body adjusts to conditions, you eat less, you burn less. Metabolism is not a constant, you can increase it over period of time. I measured fat burns with amount of fat I lost every week or every other week. I use 1 year unlimited bod testing so I don't have to worry about scale and read blogs to dictate my changes. I had no problem losing ton of fat and gaining decent muscle with a protein level of 75g of protein/ day and I am a big guy with ton of muscle mass. Looking back at my own data, my best fat burns were in the weeks I kept my protein to 1g / Kg ( not 1 lb) along with resistance training. Too much cardio or higher deficit slowed my fat loss, my only cardio was running because i love to run. Your body can recycle protein and can supply up to 100-150g if needed, there are cultures where protein of 60g/day would be considered a luxury. My fat loss slowed down when I bumped my protein over 1.5g per kg of body mass, I eat close to 0.9-1 g of protein per lb of Lean body mass because I am bulking up and don't really care if I gained little fat or lose fat slowly. Assuming your Lean Body Mass to be around 120 lbs, 50-60g of protein should be a good starting point.
I didn't work out first four weeks when I went Keto, my main goal was to get fat adapted and not worry about workouts. Its not very uncommon for you to feel lack of energy as your body is adapting to using fat as fuel than carbs. My suggestion would be stop working out for 2-3 weeks and let your body adapt to the new lifestyle. Fat loss is not a math, like I said my biggest fat loss was in the weeks with lower deficits and less cardio. For me the macros of 80% fat, 15% protein and 5% carbs gave the best results. Bottom line the key to losing fat is Keto+Resistance training. Workouts for me was a big struggle in first 6 weeks, but with in 9-10 weeks on Keto, I was running half marathon every weekend. Before going Keto, running 5-6 miles was a pain in the butt. Now I can lift really heavy twice a day with out any inflammation in my body. Let your body adapt and build a foundation. Body doesn't use protein during work outs, depending on the intensity it either uses carbs/fat.
As far as calories go, I track them but never count them. I trust my body so I eat more or less depending on the day, your metabolism is variable and its better to listen to your body. I started with a metabolism of -6% below normal, in six months my metabolism has went from below normal to fast (+20%).0 -
Leonidas has it right. Keep calm. Relax. Don't stress.
I eat the greater number of calories on the day that I work out. But I don't force feed myself. I've also been doing this for 6 months now, so I'm better at recognizing what my body needs and will need.
Yesterday I did Jiu Jitsu for 90 minutes. According to MFP that just over 1000 calories. (MFP overestimates though)
As soon as I got home from work I had spaghetti squash with a bit of chicken covered in olive oil and cheese.
Then right before leaving for class, I had 2 tablespoons of peanut butter for an extra kick of energy.
When I got home I melted a bunch of cheese on a low carb tortilla as a snack.
All of that food together is 700 calories, but really wasn't that much to eat.
All together I had 1900 calories yesterday.
Today, no hunger issues. I'm good.
But ultimately, just listen to your body. If you are hungry, grab a keto friendly snack and go to town. I'd definitely suggest upping your overall caloric intake though. Less than 1200 will happen some days, but you should never HAVE to feel hungry on keto. That's one of the things that make this way of eating so great.
Keto super simple:
Less than 25g carbs
An appropriate amount of protein.
Eat fats until you are full.
For you, lets break that down...
Less than 25g carbs - look, this number is variable, most of the people that I've seen and spoken to who are successful on keto have found a spot that they are comfortable with and can hit on a regular basis. I tend to be just over 30g a day. Some people go up to 50.
*Stay at 25 for the first few months until you are more comfortable with keto, then make adjustments based on how your body feels.
Protein - Most keto FAQ and calculators will tell you 0.8 to 1.2 grams per pound of lean body mass. But that requires that you actually know your bodyfat percentage already (so you can calculate LBM), or that you trust BMI calculators which are horribly innacurate. I actually really like Leonidas' method of 1g/Kg of body weight. If you did that you'd be at 66g per day. I'd argue that you could go as high as 80 or 90g and still be okay.
*Shoot for 70g of protein a day and you should be fine. I'd tell you not to stress if you go over though.
Fat - this part of keto is here to satisfy hunger and keep your energy even and level during the day. Find snacks and food additions that are heavy with fat and use them liberally. Do a google search for fatbomb or keto cheesecake. Keep cheese in the fridge. I use olive oil, butter, and ranch dressing on a ton of things.
*Eat as many high fat foods as you want/need to in order to feel full.
Don't make it too complicated. You can do this.0 -
Everyone in here has been so helpful and kind for taking the time to write back to my many concerns!! I love you guys and girls for the advice and the counseling! I hope that I can become helpful to you all one day!0
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Lay off the bong hits at night and you won't get the munchies....
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