High miles or low and hard?
Stoshew71
Posts: 6,553 Member
Just wondering what is everyones' philosophy on training?
I am personally In the build as many base miles that I can slowly and do long runs up to 20 (maybe 22 shhh) miles as part of my marathon training.
I know some of you follow the Hansom type of philosphy or the run less miles approach (but harder).
I am just curious what everyone does and why.
I am personally In the build as many base miles that I can slowly and do long runs up to 20 (maybe 22 shhh) miles as part of my marathon training.
I know some of you follow the Hansom type of philosphy or the run less miles approach (but harder).
I am just curious what everyone does and why.
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Replies
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I follow the more slow miles approach. Partly because that suits me and how I like to run and partly because I see how well it has worked for others. ( And partly because when I was a wee baby runner that's what Carson told me to do and I listened)0
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Definitely in the base miles camp. With my current marathon plan, I have a long, slow run every week, as well as a moderately long midweek run (7-8 miles). My shorter runs are 3-5 miles, and I'm willing to push those a little harder since they're shorter. But anything an hour+ means I'm taking it easy so I can build up the mileage that will make my marathon possible.0
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Just run as much as I can as comfortably as possible. If I don't feel like running then I don't... which is rare... I don't really count the mileage or take note of the speed... I just like running.0
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For you, slow and easy. As one does more and more marathons you do tend to increase the intensity of the workouts a bit. But at that point you are looking for different improvements (physiologically). More slow miles is just what you need0
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Lots and lots and lots of slow miles. Slow, because that's as fast as I can run!
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Run as much as possible. Hard one day; easy the next. Repeat forever.
Speed/tempo/long run. Rotational schedule.
Most runs when training try to be 60-90 min (unless long run 2+ hours)
Run paces a calculator tells me to run.
Boom0 -
I am logging as many miles as I can handle per week. In order to run faster however, I am keeping my weekly dose of tempo run on Tuesday and some other interval, fast finish or marathon pace on Thursday. Monday is off. Wednesday is a 4 mile recovery run and weights. Friday is a cross train day with bike or other activities. Saturday is a long run. No sense IMO to go over twenty if you have run previous marathons. I tend to run 6 to 10 on Sunday depending on how I feel. As the race draws near I may gradually increase or add running on Wednesday and Friday. A faster marathon requires a good race weight, no injuries or illness, as many miles as you can tolerate, one or two quality speed workouts per week, and the weekly long run. Hard/easy days is a great plan. Every third week is a recovery week where I will cut back some on distance and intensity. I also have one or two predictor races (1/2 marathons), if I really care how fast I can run during the training cycle. It is all a gamble and a guess especially as you get older. I find that stupid injuries don't give you any warning. You wake up one day and you have runner's knee or some other annoying problem. That is why my midweek runs will not exceed 10.5 and my long runs will not exceed 20. I insist on, at least, one non-running day and maybe more if necessary per week.
Besides significant weight loss, my biggest change in this current marathon training cycle is that I have given up much of the meat and dairy that I used to consume. Processed foods are out. I don't eat much sweets except for some honey or occasional treat.0 -
Lots of easy miles for me.
Just not as much as some of you more experienced and badass runners.
I'm doing Hansons... They prone lots of easy miles btw.0 -
I hate running fast! I'll push hard during a race or do some track work in training for a shorter race, but I'd prefer to never run faster than a tempo run. I enjoy running at an easy pace.0
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I'm a Hansons runner, which is lots of easy miles. It's a rotation of easy/hard. Tues/Thurs/Sun are hard or SOS in Hansons speak which is Something of Substance (speedwork, tempo runs, and long runs), Mon/Wed/Fri/Sat are easy (easy runs with 1 of those as a rest day).0
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I'm a Hansons runner, which is lots of easy miles. It's a rotation of easy/hard. Tues/Thurs/Sun are hard or SOS in Hansons speak which is Something of Substance (speedwork, tempo runs, and long runs), Mon/Wed/Fri/Sat are easy (easy runs with 1 of those as a rest day).
Ideally, This is what I would like to be doing. But I am a very poor time manager and always end up finding myself in a crunch and my long, slow runs become shorter and faster. I do stick to my plan on my long weekend run though. But I am working on slowing that down a bit too.0 -
All of the above. My rule is to never do "hard" workouts on consecutive days to give your body plenty of time to recover and avoid injury. I typically do a hard day with less distance followed by an *easy* day with more mileage (like a HR zone based run, recovery run, etc.). I also try to make sure and do hill work or speed work once per week. If you choose to do hills and speed in the same week, don't do them on consecutive days.
If I have time in my schedule, I'll also throw in a recovery run after speed/hill work just to shake everything out or do a second session in the afternoon.0 -
More slow miles for me! I'm doing one hard workout a week and the purpose is not to do anything scientific, it's just to get my head more comfortable with speeding up. Even if my body is fine and ready i have the tendency to panic when my speed gets a little too fast so i dial it back down to coma pace. I don't want to do that anymore.0
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I do three easy runs a week then 3 runs that incorporate something into them like hills, tempo, "steady state run" (mcmillan thing...), track work, strides, fast finish long, etc.0
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I'm a mileage person. The closest to speedwork that I do is a tempo run once a week. I've seen more improvement just by doing this.
That may be changing soon though, as I enter my next marathon training cycle.0 -
I was trying to figure out where I fall in this so I guess I typically am low, max of 35 a week usually, but the majority of those are trails with good elevation changes so I guess that's hard.0
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Moving toward high mileage training for 50k. But have designated "miler Mondays" as recovery days (just enough to keep runstreak alive). :glasses:
Either Sat. or Sun. is my long run, the other one day is medium mileage. Wed. is usually also a long run day (that's the ultra schedule I'm using). Mix tempo, fartlek, other intervals on other days. I try to be balanced but it's a real tug o' war between fartlek vs. long & slow runs sometimes. Try to alternate hard/easy workouts but nothing official. Blending 50k training schedule w/ suggested calendar from the RunThisYear folks. Adjust for how my legs & lungs feel. Also doing some MAF runs to keep that heart rate lower-I tend to push way too hard usually with mileage but also sometimes with velocity.0 -
I wouldn't classify the Hanson program as "lower miles, higher intensity". It's been a while since I read about their program, but if I recall correctly, it is still based on the Lydiard principles, specifically that aerobic conditioning is brought about by lots of easy miles, typically about 85% of total weekly volume. The other 15% being dedicated to something faster than easy. The major difference between Hanson and other programs like Higdon is that Hanson maxes out the long run in the 16 mile range and spreads out the mileage to the other runs.
My thoughts on Hanson are that it is probably a good program for someone with a few marathons under their belt, who has consistently run high base mileage for a few years (2500+ miles per year) and who as run a marathon in under 3:30. This type of individual already has the capacity to race the 26.2, so it's a matter of fine tuning the aerobic capacity while getting in as much MP running is as feasible.0 -
I wouldn't classify the Hanson program as "lower miles, higher intensity". It's been a while since I read about their program, but if I recall correctly, it is still based on the Lydiard principles, specifically that aerobic conditioning is brought about by lots of easy miles, typically about 85% of total weekly volume. The other 15% being dedicated to something faster than easy. The major difference between Hanson and other programs like Higdon is that Hanson maxes out the long run in the 16 mile range and spreads out the mileage to the other runs.
My thoughts on Hanson are that it is probably a good program for someone with a few marathons under their belt, who has consistently run high base mileage for a few years (2500+ miles per year) and who as run a marathon in under 3:30. This type of individual already has the capacity to race the 26.2, so it's a matter of fine tuning the aerobic capacity while getting in as much MP running is as feasible.
So what percentage of each week's mileage could/should be at marathon pace????0 -
I wouldn't classify the Hanson program as "lower miles, higher intensity". It's been a while since I read about their program, but if I recall correctly, it is still based on the Lydiard principles, specifically that aerobic conditioning is brought about by lots of easy miles, typically about 85% of total weekly volume. The other 15% being dedicated to something faster than easy. The major difference between Hanson and other programs like Higdon is that Hanson maxes out the long run in the 16 mile range and spreads out the mileage to the other runs.
My thoughts on Hanson are that it is probably a good program for someone with a few marathons under their belt, who has consistently run high base mileage for a few years (2500+ miles per year) and who as run a marathon in under 3:30. This type of individual already has the capacity to race the 26.2, so it's a matter of fine tuning the aerobic capacity while getting in as much MP running is as feasible.
So what percentage of each week's mileage could/should be at marathon pace????
As MP is considered higher intensity, no more than about 15%.
ETA: As you get closer to the end of a training cycle, this number may go up to about 20%, but I don't imagine it would ever be more than that. Let me look at my logs to see what I've done in the past.0 -
Let me look at my logs to see what I've done in the past.
Okay, I checked back to the highest intensity week prior to last year's Baltimore Marathon. This was three weeks out from the marathon.
Total Mileage - 85.3
M - Recovery 6.6
T - Easy 10.1 with Strides, Easy 5.6
W - Tempo 12 total miles, Last 6 progressing from MP to 10K pace
H - Easy 9
F - Easy 10.5
S - Easy 10.3
S - Fast finish long. 21.1 total, last 8 at MP
So, out of 85 total miles, I ran 15 miles at something faster than easy pace (6+8+1 for the strides). That's just under 18% of the weeks total mileage.0 -
I tend to have about 3 periods of training in a year. In one, it's tons of long, slow (read: "barely freaking moving") trail miles. Another period of road marathon training, which tends to be 2-3 easy days, 1 interval day, maybe one tempo day if I feel good, and a long run that sometimes includes marathon pace miles. I also take about 2 weeks of rest each year (not always and not total, but I usually do this).
I don't necessarily think this is the best approach for improvement, but it sure does keep running fun and new for me.0 -
I've found that I get lost in training plans and never follow them as intended. I'm working on accumulated fatigue with lots of easy miles (I still maintain the Daniel's recommended 8:45-9:45 pace based on my PRs), and doing lots of races and hills rather than focused speedwork while maintaining 50ish MPW. At this point in my marathon game (#2, one year after my first, in only 8 weeks) I'm just having fun because I know I'm going to smash my 4:27 PR. I played the expectations game with my goal half and enjoyed the unexpected stuff along the way a whole lot more. I'm very satisfied being able to consistently perform and place at all the races I enter, case in point a back-to-back 10K and 10mi race this weekend.
ETA training log, if anyone is nosy: http://www.runningahead.com/logs/e5ffddff35f84ba5881bb0816a0f435a0 -
I wouldn't classify the Hanson program as "lower miles, higher intensity". It's been a while since I read about their program, but if I recall correctly, it is still based on the Lydiard principles, specifically that aerobic conditioning is brought about by lots of easy miles, typically about 85% of total weekly volume. The other 15% being dedicated to something faster than easy. The major difference between Hanson and other programs like Higdon is that Hanson maxes out the long run in the 16 mile range and spreads out the mileage to the other runs.
My thoughts on Hanson are that it is probably a good program for someone with a few marathons under their belt, who has consistently run high base mileage for a few years (2500+ miles per year) and who as run a marathon in under 3:30. This type of individual already has the capacity to race the 26.2, so it's a matter of fine tuning the aerobic capacity while getting in as much MP running is as feasible.
So what percentage of each week's mileage could/should be at marathon pace????
As MP is considered higher intensity, no more than about 15%.
ETA: As you get closer to the end of a training cycle, this number may go up to about 20%, but I don't imagine it would ever be more than that. Let me look at my logs to see what I've done in the past.
I'm following Hanson.. And there is one MP run a week and it's never more than 15% of weekly mileage. More around 10%.
I've read a lot about Hanson being mostly recommended to runners with more experience than I have but I feel like putting a bigger % of my weekly mileage on week days and less on the long run was a good way for me to increase my weekly mileage without getting too trashed by 18-19-20-21 miles runs.
I guess I'll know on race day if it was a smart idea lol0 -
Not to hijack this thread, but I have a question along these lines for those of you that prefer to run high miles at a slower pace. Is it sometimes an effort for you to run at a slow pace? Or do you just go out at whatever pace feels comfortable? I know there should be more of a gap between my race pace and the pace of my training runs, but even when I make an effort to slow down, within a few minutes I always find myself back at that "comfortable" pace. It's making me wonder if maybe I should just be pushing myself harder in races.0
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Not to hijack this thread, but I have a question along these lines for those of you that prefer to run high miles at a slower pace. Is it sometimes an effort for you to run at a slow pace? Or do you just go out at whatever pace feels comfortable? I know there should be more of a gap between my race pace and the pace of my training runs, but even when I make an effort to slow down, within a few minutes I always find myself back at that "comfortable" pace. It's making me wonder if maybe I should just be pushing myself harder in races.
I know that for me, my happy pace as I call it, is my marathon pace. My half marathon pace is definitely a harder effort. 10K to 5K pace is my intervals pace, so even harder.
My easy runs are slower than marathon pace though.0 -
Not to hijack this thread, but I have a question along these lines for those of you that prefer to run high miles at a slower pace. Is it sometimes an effort for you to run at a slow pace? Or do you just go out at whatever pace feels comfortable? I know there should be more of a gap between my race pace and the pace of my training runs, but even when I make an effort to slow down, within a few minutes I always find myself back at that "comfortable" pace. It's making me wonder if maybe I should just be pushing myself harder in races.
I don't force myself to run slow. It's the forcing myself to run fast thing that I have a hard time with
When I started out, every pace for me was an 8min/mi, and training at that pace was a lot of work. Once I took the "work" aspect out of training, the race paces sorted themselves out perfectly.0 -
Not to hijack this thread, but I have a question along these lines for those of you that prefer to run high miles at a slower pace. Is it sometimes an effort for you to run at a slow pace? Or do you just go out at whatever pace feels comfortable? I know there should be more of a gap between my race pace and the pace of my training runs, but even when I make an effort to slow down, within a few minutes I always find myself back at that "comfortable" pace. It's making me wonder if maybe I should just be pushing myself harder in races.
I know that for me, my happy pace as I call it, is my marathon pace. My half marathon pace is definitely a harder effort. 10K to 5K pace is my intervals pace, so even harder.
My easy runs are slower than marathon pace though.
^ This.0 -
I think this describes me as well. HM is definitely a harder pace, but I just run my marathons at my happy pace (which will be faster on race day than the beginning of training due to being trained and tapered), but for my easy runs, I purposefully slow them down about 30ish seconds slower than that happy pace.I know that for me, my happy pace as I call it, is my marathon pace. My half marathon pace is definitely a harder effort. 10K to 5K pace is my intervals pace, so even harder.
My easy runs are slower than marathon pace though.0 -
I don't force myself to run slow. It's the forcing myself to run fast thing that I have a hard time with
This! But add 2 mins per mile to Doug ' s race times and training paces and you'll get my race times and training paces!
I love running slow. My life is kind of hectic and rushed so when i go out to run I prefer not to work too hard. Just lull my body into a nice running coma. I can usually manage 2.5 mins per mile faster than training for 5ks and 1.5 mins per mile faster for HM's.
I don't know why everyone is in such a hurry! :-)0
