What is going on!!
kristafb
Posts: 770 Member
I've been eating keto since March 1st and have been doing ok. I feel 100% better but the weight loss has slowed considerably. And I'd be ok with this if my measurements were changing too but my waist has actually gone up an inch and I feel rather chubby these days.
I had been blood testing daily and struggled to get my ketones above 1.5 (most days it was closer to 0.8) but as long as it was above 0.5 I was in ketosis so I was fine. Then I stopped testing for a while, only using my new breath tester, the Ketonix, which showed me in the yellow zone, so similar to what I had been testing.
I sent the ketonix back to be upgraded the other day & decided to pick up some strips and for the last 3 mornings I've tested at 0.2, out of ketosis!! and I don't know what I'm doing wrong!!
I'm not going to say I'm the cleanest ketoer, I do like the occasional sugar free treat, or keto friendly recipe, but my carbs are almost never above 20 grams a day and my fat is always high. I do have issue getting my protein higher but I'm working on that.
Last night I went back, old school, and reread all the websites that helped me in the beginning, dietdoctor.com, ruledme. reddit, and looked at all their advice for newbies and I redid my ankler calculator which gave me macros pretty much like I had been using. 20g carbs, 75 g protein and 113g fat. I had done a lot higher fat for a while and lower protein but didn't see any results.
I do have PCOS which does impact my weightloss but eating this was has greatly improved my symptons.
Why can't I get into nutritional ketosis! I'm frustrated and wondering if this just doesn't work for me for weight loss. I still have at least 60lbs to lose and would really like to get rid of it sooner than later.
I had been blood testing daily and struggled to get my ketones above 1.5 (most days it was closer to 0.8) but as long as it was above 0.5 I was in ketosis so I was fine. Then I stopped testing for a while, only using my new breath tester, the Ketonix, which showed me in the yellow zone, so similar to what I had been testing.
I sent the ketonix back to be upgraded the other day & decided to pick up some strips and for the last 3 mornings I've tested at 0.2, out of ketosis!! and I don't know what I'm doing wrong!!
I'm not going to say I'm the cleanest ketoer, I do like the occasional sugar free treat, or keto friendly recipe, but my carbs are almost never above 20 grams a day and my fat is always high. I do have issue getting my protein higher but I'm working on that.
Last night I went back, old school, and reread all the websites that helped me in the beginning, dietdoctor.com, ruledme. reddit, and looked at all their advice for newbies and I redid my ankler calculator which gave me macros pretty much like I had been using. 20g carbs, 75 g protein and 113g fat. I had done a lot higher fat for a while and lower protein but didn't see any results.
I do have PCOS which does impact my weightloss but eating this was has greatly improved my symptons.
Why can't I get into nutritional ketosis! I'm frustrated and wondering if this just doesn't work for me for weight loss. I still have at least 60lbs to lose and would really like to get rid of it sooner than later.
0
Replies
-
Krista,
I just scanned through a few of your more recent Food Diary entries ... have you tried going really "clean" with your food? As in, doing more meals from whole food, rather than pre-processed items? I find the amount of additional "stuff" manufacturers add to food to be shocking. Maybe try a few weeks where your protein is strictly from the meat department (not frozen and not pre-made in any way) and you incorporate more fresh veggies? I find that I do better when I keep my beef consumption down to 1-2 nights per week. Perhaps also cut out the "maple flavored sausage". The labeling may say 1 carb per link, but it contains dextrose and corn syrup and you seem to be eating that very consistently.
Please feel free to friend me if you would like to review my Food Diary.0 -
You're right, I do have a weakness for my breakfast sausage. lol. I hate cooking bacon and find I'm not eating enough protein so the sausage was easy. but I know you're right. I really need to get back to very basic eating. I'm not a good cook so the frozen stuff is always better than my homemade. My chicken is always dry and my steaks are always rubbery. Perhaps cooking lessons would be good? lol. I just think I've gotten bored with it, plus being busy at work and the hot weather lately I just don't want to spend time in the kitchen.
I think the biggest frustration is watching others eating all the 'treats' and losing steadily and knowing that I have to be super strict to get half of their success. Not that I'm not super happy for them, I am! but I just wish I could lose this weight. I love trying all the great keto recipes on the different sites but I'm wondering if they are off limits too.
A couple of the sites I looked at recommended using 65/30/5 for macros which seemed pretty high in protein for me and is also not what I got when I did 3 different calculators. I'm wondering if I should focus more on the food and less on actually getting into ketosis. eating lchf but not necessarily ketosis. And if I do can that still work? will my body use the fat if I'm not in nutritional ketosis? Sorry just rambling on here, but honestly trying to figure out whats going to work for me.0 -
I don't eat much bacon, but if you're looking for that as an "easy to grab" protein, maybe try cooking up a whole package on the weekend and then keeping it on hand in a ziploc in the fridge? I think some people do this by baking it in the oven?
And meals don't have to be complicated or take longer than 15-20 mins. I eat a LOT of chicken breast -- it's my go to for lunch and then I mix it up in the evenings with fish/beef/pork, depending on what I'm making as the main dish for the family. On the weekends I buy chicken breasts in bulk, then portion them out to about 130g per serving -- having them ready to go like this keeps me from saying "Eh, I don't feel like doing all that". To keep things quick and prevent "dry chicken" syndrome, I slice it into bite-sized pieces, season it a bit (love my Penzey's spice blends) and add it into a non-stick pan with coconut oil or butter or olive oil. Let that brown a bit, then add whatever veggie of choice: spinach, cauliflower, swiss chard, radishes, zucchini, green beans, etc.
I've also pulled away from thinking that I need to "keep the fat up". As long as I'm meeting my protein goals and keeping the carbs down (usually in the 14-17g range ... I'm small at 5'2"), I'm good. Fats keep me full, but there is no need to go overboard.
Another side note, my cals for the last week have been unusually low, just a bit of fluctuation I guess. Trying to pay attention to actual hunger rather than "desire".
Hope some of that helps!0 -
First impressions upon looking at your diary:
Lots of little meals
Lots of "sweet" treats
Every try IF? Your ratios seem pretty good. I would try to shy away from the treats.
The best advice I saw on r/keto was this: "people fail at keto because they fail to seek the enjoyment in what they can eat and instead focus on substitutes for the things they can't eat."
Lots of people have success (myself included) with intermittent fasting. Many people do 8:16 or 6:18, I myself only eat all my calories in a 2 hour window in the morning 8am-10am, then fast the rest of the day only drinking water, black coffee or the occasional diet soda. Perhaps eating larger meals, or one meal less often, will help your lack of cooking enjoyment/expertise. I feel (and this is only personal experience) the sweet treats tend to make me more snacky/peckish and it's harder to control my urges to consume. IF'ing has been very liberating as I don't need to focus on the next meal or what i'm going to have or how I'm going to fit it into my macros, I drink my BPC and map out my meal for the morning and then I'm done. Evolution made it so we can go long periods of famine and still survive on our reserves, each person's body has enough energy stores to walk from the entire US coastline south to north without eating (pretty amazing!)0 -
You're right, I do have a weakness for my breakfast sausage. lol. I hate cooking bacon and find I'm not eating enough protein so the sausage was easy. but I know you're right. I really need to get back to very basic eating. I'm not a good cook so the frozen stuff is always better than my homemade. My chicken is always dry and my steaks are always rubbery. Perhaps cooking lessons would be good? lol. I just think I've gotten bored with it, plus being busy at work and the hot weather lately I just don't want to spend time in the kitchen.
I think the biggest frustration is watching others eating all the 'treats' and losing steadily and knowing that I have to be super strict to get half of their success. Not that I'm not super happy for them, I am! but I just wish I could lose this weight. I love trying all the great keto recipes on the different sites but I'm wondering if they are off limits too.
A couple of the sites I looked at recommended using 65/30/5 for macros which seemed pretty high in protein for me and is also not what I got when I did 3 different calculators. I'm wondering if I should focus more on the food and less on actually getting into ketosis. eating lchf but not necessarily ketosis. And if I do can that still work? will my body use the fat if I'm not in nutritional ketosis? Sorry just rambling on here, but honestly trying to figure out whats going to work for me.
One tip for the dry meat: Invest in a meat thermometer. I use mine everyday. Normally meat gets dry because it's over-cooked, and chicken breasts are one of the worst for that. Chicken only needs to cook to 165 F, and if you go way over that it gets dry. The dark meat chicken is a little more forgiving because it has more fat to keep it moist. Also even though the boneless/skinless chicken is convenient, it tends to dry out more than the bone-in kind. Using a marinade before cooking can help with that.
I'm one of those people who also does better if I keep it simple. I've tried some of the different keto recipes out there for muffins and stuff, but I've noticed when I enter the ingredients individually on MFP, the carb count I end up with is often quite a bit higher than what I see listed on the webpage for the recipe. I don't know if the difference is coming from the brand of product, or how carbs are counted. (Products with less than 1g carb per serving are allowed to list zero on the label, so if you're using multiple servings it could actually add up to quite a few carbs.) Either way, I don't use them everyday, although it's nice to have a treat now and then. But I prefer to just find ways to make simpler food, rather than complicated substitutes for carby food. It makes life easier at least and less time in the kitchen.0 -
Thank you for the responses. I'm going to look at incorporating a bit of both of your ideas. dmclva someone else said chicken breast isn't a great choice for keto because its so low fat so i've stopped eating it as much and that used to be my go to protein. I'm not a fan of red meat, other than hamburger so it limited my choices. But I realize now that at least if I eat the chicken I am getting my protein and its what I eat with it that will give me the fat I need, like coconut oil, olive oil or even avocado.
aleehagen, I have been toying with trying IF for a while now. I work 12 hour shift work, (2 days & then 2 nights) and I work with 16 others who eat nonstop!!! lots of ordering pizza & chinese food, seriously difficult to get through the shift without a snack here & there. On days off my eating window is between 11am-7pm. I rarely eat after supper any more although I've found my hunger has been up lately but I think its more boredom than hunger.
Also when I compare my weight report over the last 2 months to my food diary I almost always have a gain after eating my sugar free ice cream. As much as it breaks my heart to admit this, it has to go :brokenheart: I do ok eating my flax muffins, which i use as burger buns or toast in the morning so I plan to keep them (made of egg, coconut oil,flaxmeal & baking powder, thats it) But After tomorrows night shift, on days off, I'm headed to get some chicken and get really back to keto basics. I keep looking for a beginners meal plan on line but they all want you to make recipes, I just want real food, nothing too complicated. I'll be checking out my keto friends diaries over the next few days to see what everyone is eating these days to give me some ideas. although I find it difficult to find alot of the food others are eating here in Nova Scotia.0 -
One tip for the dry meat: Invest in a meat thermometer. I use mine everyday. Normally meat gets dry because it's over-cooked, and chicken breasts are one of the worst for that. Chicken only needs to cook to 165 F, and if you go way over that it gets dry. The dark meat chicken is a little more forgiving because it has more fat to keep it moist. Also even though the boneless/skinless chicken is convenient, it tends to dry out more than the bone-in kind. Using a marinade before cooking can help with that.
I'm one of those people who also does better if I keep it simple. I've tried some of the different keto recipes out there for muffins and stuff, but I've noticed when I enter the ingredients individually on MFP, the carb count I end up with is often quite a bit higher than what I see listed on the webpage for the recipe. I don't know if the difference is coming from the brand of product, or how carbs are counted. (Products with less than 1g carb per serving are allowed to list zero on the label, so if you're using multiple servings it could actually add up to quite a few carbs.) Either way, I don't use them everyday, although it's nice to have a treat now and then. But I prefer to just find ways to make simpler food, rather than complicated substitutes for carby food. It makes life easier at least and less time in the kitchen.
Thanks I'll look into getting a meat thermometer. I do tend to over cook chicken. I have a fear of samonella (no reason, other than I'm a bit of a hypochondriac lol) so I tend to cook the crap out of everything.
I had to stop making treats with almond flour & coconut flour, they were always pretty high in carbs and were not easy on my belly. I love flax though and it seems to like me too. Plus its so high in fibre its very low carb.0 -
My wife and I are on week one of the "Leptin Rx" by Dr. Jack Kruse. The nuts & bolts are you eat a big ole breakfast (B.O.B.) and then not eat till dinner and even then it will be a small dinner. The reason why was my wife is having trouble with ketosis and she's always hungry. She fit the descriptors of leptin resistant so this is supposed to help with that. I wasn't resistant however I did have a sweet tooth even after being in ketosis for a month. This protocol has zapped all cravings especially sweets so no substitutes either. I did have some heavy cream with a few drops of EZ-Sweetz but that was to increase the fat percentage...I'm weaning myself off the EZ-Sweetz since it's now "too" sweet.
So if your having cravings look into the leptin reset. Not sure of the science even thought there's plenty, I'm just too lazy right now to read up on it. I do like having a B.O.B. and not worrying about food or cravings the rest of the day. This might just help.
If cravings are not a concern then I would just clean up your diet. Processed foods have way too many chemicals that affect our bodies in unnatural ways. You should start there. I will say that I'm really excited about this and even though it's been five days I can see this lasting. It's still ketosis but with a goal of eating 50-75g of protein for breakfast. That's it and it's cured my ridiculous sweet tooth and also helped my wife this week not be hungry. So much so that she wasn't hungry until dinner Thursday and Friday and when she ate dinner it was a very small dinner.
You have many options but the most crucial is to clean up your food choices.0 -
Thank you Crooz, I actually read up on the Letin reset diet a while back when I saw the doctor on tv talking about it & thought it could work for me, but that was before doing keto so I didn't bother trying it. Perhaps I'll give that a try. How long do you eat this way? I could easily eat 70 g of protein for breakfast. I love eggs!! lol
Ok goal for days off (starting monday) clean up my diet!!!! no more scooby snacks for me
0 -
Chicken breast IS low fat, true, but I've found dipping those suckers straight into ghee before taking a bite (like lobster!) makes it much better....0
-
I have never had ghee. I've never seen it around here. But I do love dipping my chicken in mayo or ranch dressing.0
-
if higher ketone levels are important for your goals and considering PCOS, you should be eating every meal to ketogenic standard. One such measure is Ketogenic/Anti Ketogenic ratio. It tells you how many ketogenic gm of food you are eating compared to Anti ketogenic foods in a meal. This comes from strict ketogenic diets prescribed to patients where higher ketone levels are very important. This ketogenic ratio should be at least over 2 (more if you are struggling to stay in ketosis). Now consider this against your meals logged in today.
Break Fast ratio: 2.21 (Border line Ketogenic)
Dinner Ratio : 1.38 (Not ketogenic)
Extra Work Meal Ratio 1.77 (Not Ketogenic)
Snack 2 1.8 (Not Ketogenic)
Snack 1 2.73 (ketogenic)
Looking at the data, its not very surprising that you are hardly in ketosis. Also, remember some of people can get away with a lower ratio because of timing of carbs, proteins and most importantly because work outs which deplete the glycogen levels. Try to eat every meal with fats, proteins and carbs in proportion. Much simpler would be just follow Dr Eric Westman's simple diet plan which lists what foods you can and can't eat with out worrying about quantities.0 -
if higher ketone levels are important for your goals and considering PCOS, you should be eating every meal to ketogenic standard. One such measure is Ketogenic/Anti Ketogenic ratio. It tells you how many ketogenic gm of food you are eating compared to Anti ketogenic foods in a meal. This comes from strict ketogenic diets prescribed to patients where higher ketone levels are very important. This ketogenic ratio should be at least over 2 (more if you are struggling to stay in ketosis). Now consider this against your meals logged in today.
Break Fast ratio: 2.21 (Border line Ketogenic)
Dinner Ratio : 1.38 (Not ketogenic)
Extra Work Meal Ratio 1.77 (Not Ketogenic)
Snack 2 1.8 (Not Ketogenic)
Snack 1 2.73 (ketogenic)
Looking at the data, its not very surprising that you are hardly in ketosis. Also, remember some of people can get away with a lower ratio because of timing of carbs, proteins and most importantly because work outs which deplete the glycogen levels. Try to eat every meal with fats, proteins and carbs in proportion. Much simpler would be just follow Dr Eric Westman's simple diet plan which lists what foods you can and can't eat with out worrying about quantities.
OK now I'm freaking out!! I've never heard of this before! If my macros for the day are good how can my day be such a mess?? I've feeling really uneducated now.
How do I figure out these ratios? is there an online calculator or something?0 -
Ghee is butterfat only.0
-
The best advice I saw on r/keto was this: "people fail at keto because they fail to seek the enjoyment in what they can eat and instead focus on substitutes for the things they can't eat."
This is SO true. My first failure at keto/lchf was simply because I focused on what everyone else "could" eat and what I "couldn't". I've since learned that it's not about that. Also, my husband gets totally pissed when I can eat a half dozen eggs in one day and post a loss the next.
Krista, how active are you?0 -
I prepare the following items once a week because I also have issues getting enough protein regularly which also helps for my family of 4:
1 dozen pastured boiled eggs for a quick meal
Bacon- cook up 2 lbs in the oven (pastured or commercial if the farmer's are sold out) on cookie sheets then store in a gallon zip-lock with whatever grease is on them- no draining. I also sometimes buy Wright's Ends and Pieces which are more fat and irregular- Wal-Mart.
Fish- Wild caught cod or flounder fillets are great light protein powerhouses with mild flavor that can be added to any meal.
Also, I deliberately prepare extra veggies, especially green things:
Kale and or Swiss chard: in some of the leftover bacon grease with a bit of shallot and garlic once a week and store in zip-lock containers for easy meal nuking. I don't feel like fixing green things at breakfast so I always have left over veggies on had for breakfast or lunch efficiency. Getting my greens in all day really helps.
Mushrooms: sauteed in butter and coconut oil or butter and bacon grease or butter and duck fat with some onion and garlic.
These are great used in a frittata or quiche, too.
Raw sugar snap pea pods are a nice crunchy and sweet addition to breakfast and are also portable.
Doing these few things have really helped me with my morning meals.0 -
Ghee is butterfat only.
Easy to make your own: melt butter in a skillet over med to med low heat. Let gently cook for 5-10 minutes until you get a light toasting which improves flavor. You then pour off the clarified butter and the milk fat remnants will have sunk to the bottom of the pan. Discard those. Let cool and is room temperature stable.
There is a microwave method that I have not tried: melt 1 lb butter in a Pyrex type pitcher with some headroom. Cover with a paper towel because the milk particles can pop and spit a bit. Nuke 10 minutes then do as above. I prefer the stove top method myself so I have not bothered with this one.
If you don't like the toasted flavor of Ghee, make the clarified butter by melting and remove from heat. Let sit for a few minutes then pour off the butter fat after the milk particles have settled to the bottom in a cloudy layer. This is what you get with crab legs or lobster in a restaurant. Also room temperature stable.
Doing this also removes the milk particles for those who are lactose intolerant or for those whom milk can elevate glucose levels from the lactose, or whey or casein proteins.0 -
if higher ketone levels are important for your goals and considering PCOS, you should be eating every meal to ketogenic standard. One such measure is Ketogenic/Anti Ketogenic ratio. It tells you how many ketogenic gm of food you are eating compared to Anti ketogenic foods in a meal. This comes from strict ketogenic diets prescribed to patients where higher ketone levels are very important. This ketogenic ratio should be at least over 2 (more if you are struggling to stay in ketosis). Now consider this against your meals logged in today.
Break Fast ratio: 2.21 (Border line Ketogenic)
Dinner Ratio : 1.38 (Not ketogenic)
Extra Work Meal Ratio 1.77 (Not Ketogenic)
Snack 2 1.8 (Not Ketogenic)
Snack 1 2.73 (ketogenic)
Looking at the data, its not very surprising that you are hardly in ketosis. Also, remember some of people can get away with a lower ratio because of timing of carbs, proteins and most importantly because work outs which deplete the glycogen levels. Try to eat every meal with fats, proteins and carbs in proportion. Much simpler would be just follow Dr Eric Westman's simple diet plan which lists what foods you can and can't eat with out worrying about quantities.
OK now I'm freaking out!! I've never heard of this before! If my macros for the day are good how can my day be such a mess?? I've feeling really uneducated now.
How do I figure out these ratios? is there an online calculator or something?
There is no online calculator or at least I am not aware of. To keep it simple, if you are eating carbs, eat 1 carb per 6gm of fat and 3 gm of protein combined. If you don't have carbs with protein and fat, you can have 1 g of protein per 1g of fat. This is not needed for most people who just happen to do fine with macros or who never really test blood ketone levels and are not aware that they might be out of ketosis. Keep it simple, eat fatty cuts of meats, sausages, bacon, fatty fish, full fat dairy etc. If you eat Chicken, make sure you cook it in oil and consume the fat left over in the pan. Artificial sweeteners might also have impact on insulin levels, try avoiding them for few weeks. You probably need to increase your activity levels as well to burn of the excess glycogen stores in liver and muscles.
If you are interested, you can use excel to give you the results. the formula for ketogenic ratio is
(0.9*fat gms+0.46*protein gms / (0.1*fat gms +1*carb gms+0.58*Protein gms). More than 2 is considered ketogenic.
This is the standard which is usually followed in prescription of ketogenic diets, where ketone levels are very important.0 -
Protein? Chicken Thighs! They're magnificent. Baked, broiled, or even poached! You can't make it rubbery unless you try really hard.
My fave ways to cook the fatty little babies:
- Salt and pepper, baked
- Curry powder, garlic, and coconut milk, baked
- Fried with salt, pepper, herbs
- Poached in lemon juice and chicken broth. Drink broth.
- Boneless thighs, stir fried in all the things.
xoxo0 -
Thank you for the responses. I'm going to look at incorporating a bit of both of your ideas. dmclva someone else said chicken breast isn't a great choice for keto because its so low fat so i've stopped eating it as much and that used to be my go to protein. I'm not a fan of red meat, other than hamburger so it limited my choices. But I realize now that at least if I eat the chicken I am getting my protein and its what I eat with it that will give me the fat I need, like coconut oil, olive oil or even avocado.
aleehagen, I have been toying with trying IF for a while now. I work 12 hour shift work, (2 days & then 2 nights) and I work with 16 others who eat nonstop!!! lots of ordering pizza & chinese food, seriously difficult to get through the shift without a snack here & there. On days off my eating window is between 11am-7pm. I rarely eat after supper any more although I've found my hunger has been up lately but I think its more boredom than hunger.
Also when I compare my weight report over the last 2 months to my food diary I almost always have a gain after eating my sugar free ice cream. As much as it breaks my heart to admit this, it has to go :brokenheart: I do ok eating my flax muffins, which i use as burger buns or toast in the morning so I plan to keep them (made of egg, coconut oil,flaxmeal & baking powder, thats it) But After tomorrows night shift, on days off, I'm headed to get some chicken and get really back to keto basics. I keep looking for a beginners meal plan on line but they all want you to make recipes, I just want real food, nothing too complicated. I'll be checking out my keto friends diaries over the next few days to see what everyone is eating these days to give me some ideas. although I find it difficult to find alot of the food others are eating here in Nova Scotia.
we slather our chicken breast in cheese/ranch/bacon to get the fat count higher on that meal... Try it... So good :-90 -
Leptin reset and ketogenic eating are the same, the only thing is that with the reset the protein requirement is given, 50-75g. The only thing I do is make sure that my protein intake is no more than 20% of my calorie intake. At ~65-75g that keeps me full all day and not really hungry at dinner time but I eat a little something anyway. I was only eating dinner but have found this approach more to my liking. Looking forward to all the benefits of being leptin sensitive and can see eating this way for the rest of my life. It is just awesome not to have any cravings whatsoever throughout the day & night....NONE! Ketosis alone without an intentional protein requirement left me hangry and fiending for some sugar but not no mo. Clean up your choices, eat ~50-75g for breakfast with double the amount of fat grams and see how you feel after a week. I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised...I know I was and heard and read about being leptin resistant years ago and blew it off as nothing more than a "complicated" paleo diet.0
-
My suggestion: cycle your calories. Instead of aiming to hit 1400 kcal each day, go for 900 kcal on one day and then 1900 kcal on the other day. Do it by varying fat amount alone, leaving protein and carbs constant. You can also experiment with going much lower on the low days (up to the point where you only eat lean protein and some low-starch veggies) to further increase the deficit - the alternating days with many calories (and fat) will keep you sane.
I don't buy the leptin reset shtick, but it certainly helps to eat a decent amount of protein in the morning.0
