Help me... bad at math :)

teaspoon43
teaspoon43 Posts: 238 Member
I've been logging everything I eat for about 45 days straight. I've lost 21 pounds which I think it good, especially because I'm heavier so I expected it to come off quickly at first. However, the last 2 weekly weigh-in's have been disheartening. I've lost .2 lbs in 14 days. I'm obviously doing something wrong right? I think I'm eating too few calories.. average about 1600 a day with over 3000 burned.

29 year old female
weight - 271
64" height
activity level - I work out 3 to 5 times per week.. typically 3 days of 45 minutes strength training along with 3 days of cardio for 45 minutes (usually done on same day)

I'm completely satisfied with the amount I eat because some days I'm over 2000 easily and others under 1600 because I'm full from the previous day. However, I'm sure I could up my calories by eating nuts, etc that won't "fill" me up but I'm just afraid to do so until I know how many calories I can eat without eating too many.

Replies

  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    You lost 21 lbs in 45 days.
    Lets say 4 lbs worth was the normal water weight, assuming you had a high sodium diet prior and lowered it a lot.

    17 lbs in 45 days. 6.4 weeks.

    Always do the math for big weight gains or losses, to see if it could have been all fat, or had to be other.

    17 x 3500 = 59500 / 45 days = 1322 deficit from daily burn if really all fat.

    Depending on true average eating level, below 1600 to above 2000 is rather huge range, though it sounds like you are more on the lower end.
    1700 + 1300 = 3000 burn as you mention.

    That's a 43% deficit. Does that even sound reasonable, eating 45% less than what your body would like to maintain at?

    And actually, I'm going to bet it wasn't all fat that was lost, when you go that fast, some is going to be muscle mass, even with lifting. That can help retain muscle mass with a reasonable deficit and enough protein, it won't prevent it though.

    And when in a state that your body feels the need to lose muscle mass, it's probably also adapting to that extreme deficit by slowing down and becoming more metabolically efficient.

    So besides daily burn lowering because of less weight being moved around, metabolism has also lowered because of less muscle, and lowered more to adapt.

    You are now likely seeing the results of that, you no longer have the deficit you thought you had.
    Let's see, if you take off the 20% suppression studies have shown to occur, assuming your 3000 is correct for prior potential TDEE.

    3000 - 20% = 2400 merely for suppression.

    Eating level 1700, that should be still a 700 cal deficit, or almost 1.5 lbs weekly.

    Take off lost muscle and less mass being moved, that could easily be lowered to 250-500 cal deficit.

    Yes, eating at 43% deficit from potential daily burn is doing something wrong, and it's already bitten you.

    The problem now is 2 directions.

    You can keep eating less, and that max suppression of 20% remains, so you eventually will start losing again. But how low must you now eat combined with how much exercise to cause that loss?
    Get sick or injured or vacation and little to no exercise - now how low must you eat?

    And play out the end game since still some weight to lose, if already at 1600 calories eaten, how much will you have to eat to keep losing?
    How bad will maintenance be?
    Will you be able to adhere to eating levels much lower then they need to be?
    To play out the end game, your TDEE will lower about 75 calories per 10 lbs lost. If it is indeed already at 2400 for your current level of activity, what does that mean TDEE will be at goal weight, along with how much exercise?

    I'm hoping all that scares you, because it should. That is exactly why majority of dieters fail, maintenance sucks for such a low eating level.

    The other direction is heal up the body so it's healthy and can burn maximum amount. At this point losing muscle mass you already lost some of that extra burn, but oh well, lesson learned - probably don't want to cause any more loss, huh.

    Also remember that eating too little messes with your hormones regarding hunger.
    You feeling full, and your body being fully fed for your level of activity - are 2 very different things.
    You ever feel like you are getting vitamin or mineral deficient? Or rather you'd have symptoms show up down the road eventually that cause you to get tested and point out what is wrong, perhaps with some serious health issues as a result of it.
    Don't become calorie deficient, there are even worse potential side effects besides the ones you've experienced.
    You probably lucked out on some because you indeed have a bit to lose - but that doesn't mean the body is happy about it, and won't do things to correct what it thinks is wrong.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i_cmltmQ6A

    So which direction are you interested in, really interested in?

    Spreadsheet on my profile page to get best estimates of BMR and TDEE based on bodyfat measurements (or your own tested level), and activity calculator that is specific to you and time and exercise.
    Stay on Simple Setup and Progress tab, and see what TDEE looks like it could be for your BF%.

    And then you likely need to start eating about 100 extra daily for a week or two at a time to work your way back up to that value to get a healthy body back, that can then sustain a reasonable weight loss amount. And yes, reasonable for you will be more than others, but you can still go overboard.
  • Jennbecca33
    Jennbecca33 Posts: 321 Member
    Hi Teaspoon, and welcome to EM2WL! We are glad that you're here. :)

    So yes, like Heybales said, your calorie deficit has been way too large, meaning that you have not been eating nearly enough. Your rate of weight loss has been too fast and absolutely will not be sustainable in the long run. Our bodies do not respond well when restricting calories that severely, and so now you've reached the point where your body is not going to respond the way you want it too, hence your weight loss stalling. I think you will be surprised by these numbers. EM2WL recommends using this Scooby site below to calculate your TDEE/BMR numbers. Your TDEE is your maintenance calories, or what you need to eat in order to maintain your weight. We suggest using no more than a 15% deficit for weight loss. From how you described your workouts, you would at least choose "Moderate exercise" for your activity level. You can plug all your numbers into the link below, but when I did the calculation for you, at your size, you should be able to maintain your weight at around 3012 calories. With a 15% deficit, you should be able to lose weight at 2560 calories!! Yes, much more than you have been eating.

    http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/

    I think firstly, you need to have a more realistic expectation of how much weight you should/can lose per week. 4 pounds a week is not healthy in any way. A more realistic approach would be to aim for maybe 1 pound per week. This is a sustainable approach. Losing 4 pounds a week does no good if you are not able to keep it off in the long run. So try to get your head wrapped around a more sustainable goal in regards to weight loss.

    Now as far as your hunger level...you say you are satisfied at 1600 calories. Your hunger, like your metabolism, has probably become suppressed because of the low calories you have been eating. The best thing for you to do at this point is to slowly start increasing your calories. You can add 100 calories daily per week. Add 100 this week. Add another 100 next week...until you have increased up to your 15% deficit for weight loss - around 2560 calories. I know you are probably thinking this is way too many calories for you. In reality, you have just simply been eating way too little. Your BMR alone is almost 2000 calories. Your BMR is the amount of calories your body needs to function if you were to stay in bed all day (heart pumping blood, lungs breathing, etc.). You have been eating 1600 calories....400 below your BMR! Maybe you can begin to see now what your body actually needs to function at a healthy level. As you begin to add calories, your appetite will begin to return. This is how you can heal your metabolism and get it to function again at the higher level it is supposed to.

    Strength training is great, so keep doing that. Don't run yourself ragged with too much cardio - it really is just another stressor to the body. Aim for 4 or 5 workouts a week, with 2 days of rest. 45 minutes of strength training 3 days a week and 2 days of shorter cardio sessions is plenty. You don't want to stress your body with too much exercise and too little calories.

    You should read through these forums and helpful posts from team members to learn more about EM2WL. You can also visit the official EM2WL website at www.em2wl.com. There are other team members over there who will help you in this process and also some great ladies who are going through the same thing. Feel free to add me here on MFP for support and post back with any other questions you may have. Again, welcome! :)
  • teaspoon43
    teaspoon43 Posts: 238 Member
    thanks everyone... here's my next question. I only have a fitbit plus and myfitnesspal to "guesstimate" my calories burned during a workout session. We all know these are not accurate so is it better to set my calories higher (at like 2500) and choose my activity level at moderate and HOPE that I really burn 3200 per day or to set my calories at my BMR level and then eat back my exercise calories as I earn them (again, not accurate). This is where I'm struggling. I'm sure there is some trial and error here as well.
  • Jennbecca33
    Jennbecca33 Posts: 321 Member
    What is a Fitbit plus? I haven't heard of that one. If it's like other Fitbits, it should be fairly accurate for estimating your TDEE, outside of weight training, which you could just manually enter for better accuracy. What does it say your TDEE is?

    If you set MFP to BMR and then eat back your exercise calories, then you're not accounting for any of your other daily activity - which can add up to a lot for some people depending on how active you are. Unless you are extremely sedentary all day, I would set it at lightly active (or whatever you are outside of workouts) if you want to go that route and then eat back all exercise calories. I prefer to use the Scooby site and choose the correct activity level...it's easier for me to have the same calorie goal everyday. If you set it up correctly, both methods should have you eating around the same number of calories.

    Heybales spreadsheet is a good option as well if you know how to work in Excel.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    thanks everyone... here's my next question. I only have a fitbit plus and myfitnesspal to "guesstimate" my calories burned during a workout session. We all know these are not accurate so is it better to set my calories higher (at like 2500) and choose my activity level at moderate and HOPE that I really burn 3200 per day or to set my calories at my BMR level and then eat back my exercise calories as I earn them (again, not accurate). This is where I'm struggling. I'm sure there is some trial and error here as well.

    There is no Fitbit Plus, but whatever device, it's a better estimate than you guessing from 5 levels of TDEE chart or MFP non-exercise activity levels. It's giving you daily infinite TDEE levels.

    Yes trial and error, erring on the high side, will get you there - but are you really willing to wait?

    From studies, the Fitbit's can accurately log 85% of average daily burn, the other 15% depends on how much you exercise, eat, ect.

    Because it actually underestimates.
    ALL non-moving activity is given the same burn, BMR based on gender, age, weight, height, what you'd burn sleeping deeply.
    But actually when awake you burn more - RMR.
    When standing you burn more.
    When fidgeting you burn more.
    When processing/digesting food you burn more (about 10% of what you eat).

    So it actually underestimates daily life, and lots of exercise it does too, because while step based, it has no idea of incline for walking or jogging, which can be a big difference, and of course really underestimated on lifting, biking, elliptical, rowing, ect.
    All non-step based must be logged manually to increase accuracy of estimated daily burn.
    So confirm you do that, or you'll be creating still a bigger deficit than your body really wants.

    Lifting should be logged on Fitbit as Weight training, if it's heavy for you with sets and rests, then that is power lifting, if you are doing it easy - make it harder and use that one! ;-)
    MFP calls it Strength Training.
    Both have circuit training if that's what you are doing. Normally that would be best for fat loss as it increases your TDEE more, but yours is high already, so perhaps you don't need that.

    And like Jen recommended, you still are commenting on mentality of lower is better (setting to BMR), hence my thought you aren't going to estimate and wait on high side to show results to adjust from.

    If you like the eat back method (which is frankly closer to actual TDEE deficit method, but harder to plan since each day is different calories), then set it up correctly in MFP, and sync with the Fitbit for both positive and negative adjustments.

    Select correct non-exercise daily activity level.
    Sedentary is 45 hr desk job/commute weekly, with no kids or pets playing with, no lawn care or long shopping sessions.
    Lightly Active is desk job with kids/pets and more house cleaning/cooking that comes along with that, and longer shopping (not with pets perhaps).

    Select 1 lb weekly weight loss, as that is about 15% of what appears to be TDEE right now, though I'll bet it's actually higher than you think.

    Log your foods accurately - weigh foods, measure only liquids.
    Log your non-step based exercise correctly. Let Fitbit handle the step based walking and jogging. So you'll have to track when you start lifting, not the cardio warmup, or walking and stretching, but from first lift to last lift (do count reasonable rests, not talking & waiting 5 min for equipment). Was spin bike really 45 min, or last 5-10 min was easy spin and stretching? Was Zumba class really 60 min, or 15-20 was warmup/cooldown slower (1/2 time) and stretching, so really 40-45 min?

    Since you have Fitbit, the main reason I'd still suggest using the spreadsheet in Excel or Google sheets if you have gmail account, is to compare Katch BMR based on BF%, to what BMR Fitbit is using - could be close, could be way off, in which case correction would be useful. And on Progress tab is a TDEE calculator based on actual results (need accurate food eating logs), to see how close Fitbit was.

    If you prefer the TDEE deficit method, same amount daily, then you'll still need corrections on Fitbit's site to see what average TDEE is, then take 15% deficit and manually set your goal.

    With either method, you need to slowly work your way back up to TDEE for at least couple weeks. You'll know if body is responding well as you move up if your weight loss increases a tad more before you reach TDEE.
  • teaspoon43
    teaspoon43 Posts: 238 Member
    It's a FitBit One... ooooops :) thanks for the input everyone. I'm going to re-read this later to make sure I understand it all and then determine which way I want to go about upping my calories.
  • teaspoon43
    teaspoon43 Posts: 238 Member
    Here's my question after re-reading through all of this... because I have a fitbit, is it really as simple as taking my calories burned per day for a week/month and using that average as my TDEE? And then eat 15% less than that? Obviously as I lose I would need to recalcuate my TDEE.
  • Jennbecca33
    Jennbecca33 Posts: 321 Member
    Yes, it is that simple! As you lose weight and update your Fitbit, it will automatically adjust your TDEE for you. If you weight train, it's better to take the Fitbit off during those times and enter the calories manually as the Fitbit will underestimate. The same goes for non-step based activities like cycling.
  • teaspoon43
    teaspoon43 Posts: 238 Member
    Thank you!!!!!
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Actually, you don't have to take the Fitbit off, as off and on can lead to forgetting to do either one.

    When you correctly manually log the lifting, what the Fitbit gives as calorie burn for Weight lifting will replace the calorie burn that was estimated from the steps during the lifting.
    No double counting, total replacement. Just note the time you stopped doing warmup cardio for instance, and started actually lifting, and then when you stopped last lift and did something else afterwards.

    And because it happens from time to time if going to a gym, you may have to wait for equipment beyond the normal expected set rests. Just note if it took 5 min or 10 min, ect, waiting longer then normal.

    When you manually log it, use the short time duration not including that waiting time.