Deliseford wrote: »

Hi all, I'm fairly new to this, been on the LCHF plan successfully staying under 50 carbs/day but not even really trying to stay under 20, especially since a lot of my carbs normally come from vegetables (still working out how to balance all of this stuff). I would love to build up a larger support base. I've been exercising most days which is great for my mental health and hopefully my metabolism. I'm having no trouble meeting my fat ratio and am staying under my calorie goals. I have two questions I'd love some feedback on:

1). Without counting calories burned from exercise I'm right around my calorie goal, but my net calories seem really low (under 1000) a lot of the time. However I feel that I'm eating enough. That said, I've only lost 3 lbs (though I feel a lot less bloated) in 1.5 weeks. Normally that would seem fine but shouldn't the beginning just be water weight and does this mean I'm not really working toward my goal? I haven't started strength training yet, waiting for my financial assistance to be approved at the YMCA. Is this net calorie number really what I should focus on and is not meeting it hurting my progress?

2). Protein: I'm having trouble meeting my protein goals, especially when the grams per day go up after exercise. Any suggestions on protein rich foods that do NOT have a lot of fat or carbs? My fat intake is good but I've been using a lot of dairy fats and fat from meat it seems to make it.

Please add me if you're willing to join my support team and would like a new friend as well As I get better at this, I'm a happy cook and would love to start actually working on recipes....

Del;

The "net" cals (and net carbs) debate is one in which you will find folks on both sides of the argument with (at least to them), compelling points of view.

For me, the "science" leans toward the side that says that exercise, per se, has very little (if anything) to do with weight loss. This is NOT to say there are not benefits, clearly there are, both in terms of overall "wellness/fitness" and, as you noted "mental" health.

It is to say, however, that time spent in the gym (especially cardio) is neither necessary nor a component of weight loss. Not just IMO, but documented in clinical studies.

As it relates to LCHF and especially nutritional ketosis, the recommendation is that one NOT engage in exercise programs more strenuous than walking, at least until fully adapted.

Regarding the "eating back" exercise calories, my advice is don't even bother counting them, entering them, or hooking up any electronic marvel that auto reports them. Introducing that "you have earned xxxx calories...." component into the MFP tracker does nothing but confuse the issue, change the macro numbers, and add one more "variable" that isn't helping you keep focused on what really matters.

Once you have established a baseline in HCLF (or NK if you decide to go there), resume your exercise program but let your body "tell you" when it needs nourishment (and ignore the "carb load", "gotta have protein" dogma.

Moderate resistance training has been shown to have "some" positive effects on weight loss but no so (generally speaking) for cardio.

Three pounds in a week and a half is not "just 3#" - it's just FINE.

Assuming your 1600 cal/day number is reasonable for you and you want to keep the total carb intake close to your current goal for now, I'd suggest changing fat to something closer to 70% and dropping protein to 20 or so if you intend to further reduce carbs as you go along. Give that a couple weeks, look at other poster's diaries for ideas on specific meals that will let you hit those goals and check out some of the recipes forum members have posted. Here's a good start:
tinyurl.com/kfgqoyk

Remember that HCLF and/or NK eating plans are NOT, first and foremost, "weight loss" programs.

Weight loss is a "nice" side benefit but overall wellness is really what it's all about.

As far as only losing 3 pounds the first 2 weeks, well that's great. Some people lose a ton of water weight and some don't. I think I also lost 3 pounds the first 2 weeks. I made a point to drink a ton of water so I believe my weight loss wasn't water and maybe yours isn't either.

I have trouble eating enough protein as well. Some lean proteins include chicken breast and lean pork loins. They are pretty good grilled with bacon fat and added salt.

I don't eat enough calories some days, but I don't worry about it too much. But if my fat is too low I definitely eat some added fat. Yesterday I was too low on fat but feeling full so I ate 2 tbsp of butter. Yum.

(I sent you a friend request.)

lulalacroix wrote: »

As far as only losing 3 pounds the first 2 weeks, well that's great. Some people lose a ton of water weight and some don't. I think I also lost 3 pounds the first 2 weeks. I made a point to drink a ton of water so I believe my weight loss wasn't water and maybe yours isn't either.

I have trouble eating enough protein as well. Some lean proteins include chicken breast and lean pork loins. They are pretty good grilled with bacon fat and added salt.

I don't eat enough calories some days, but I don't worry about it too much. But if my fat is too low I definitely eat some added fat. Yesterday I was too low on fat but feeling full so I ate 2 tbsp of butter. Yum.

(I sent you a friend request.)

What I generally do for protein, and recommend to my friends, is calculate the .5-1g/pound of lean body weight range, or 100g (which I've found to be the average for women, since that's who I work with the most), and adjust from there. It gives you what's generally considered the upper end of "adequate" in keto circles, so you can use the 1g/lb number as a ceiling, and anything less than that as a "ballpark" number (ie - try to get around it, but don't worry if you're over or under any given day). The 100g number is pretty easily attainable without trying to force-feed yourself protein (you can get pretty close with 5oz of meat at each of three meals instead of the usual 3oz serving size, as animal based protein averages about 7g per ounce). Some people don't agree with that formula, but I've found it useful to get a better idea of what's a reasonable number, since a lot of people coming to low carb tend to have it massively inflated (due to raising protein instead of fat when dropping carbs). The individual can always adjust up or down from there to suit their needs and goals.

I only eat "added" fat straight when I feel like it, which does turn out to be nearly daily, because a good butter or coconut oil is just plain tasty. (Seriously, salted Amish roll butter is awesome.)

deansdad101 wrote: »

newmeadow wrote: »

Oh yeah. Brain fog. Funny thing is, until it's cleared, it's not known that it's even there. Because there's nothing to compare it to.

But more about that exercise thing, because I keep thinking about it.

So often, a man or woman comes onto the main forum with the typical dilemma. Female single parent, or male provider with an entire family to support. Either with a full time job (or two), long commute, and accredited night classes with homework.

That schedule alone is pretty much impossible.

And what they're asking is "How do I make the time for exercise to lose weight? I'm 50+ or 75+ or 100+ lbs. overweight."

And every Tom, Dick and Harry puts in their two cents about starting some nutty exercise routine (I mean, nutty in relation to the fact that the person asking is impossibly overscheduled to begin with.)

I don't add in my two cents because my ticker does not reflect successful weight loss thus far.

But out of the many pages of replies they'll receive suggesting squats in the toilet stall 10 minutes before work and squeezing their butt cheeks 100 times while they hang on to the subway strap and another suggestion to walk up 20 flights of stairs to their high rise office every morning, maybe one reply will simply say that it's FOOD that takes the weight off first and foremost. Not exercise.

I feel really sorry for these people. I don't know what's brainwashed people to believe that exercise is for weight loss.

New;

Couldn't agree more and the reason I don't spend much time in the sandbox.

Bothers me as well that newbies are forced (bullied) into being exposed to the "religion" of the zealots rather than an open and honest discussion of the various methods of accomplishing their goals but it is what it is and at this stage of my life I've better things to do with my time and efforts than attempting to move immovable ideological rocks.

30 or 40 years ago it would have been a "mission" for me. With age, comes an understanding that the word futility was included in the dictionary for a reason - that, or it's just that one comes to understand that it actually feels "good" when you stop beating your head against that wall.

I have tremendous respect for those that take up the fight in an effort that can only be described as "noble" to enlighten the ineducable but that's a young wo/man's game.

Nothing is ever really that simple though. As you say, it hurts to watch newbies be subjected to the browbeating when they come looking only for help and assistance. It especially hurts when many have already been beaten down (psychologically) by past failures

Whether it's the "logic" that says "you can't save the world", or that "they are adults and know (or should know) that it's "only" the interwebs, or the fact that one just plain runs "out of gas" at some point - I don't know. I do know that it's a moral dilemma at times though.

These days I'm comfortable saying that I really couldn't care a wit if folks agree with me or not, much less feel a need that I must "convince" them to adopt my point of view or beliefs.

My joy comes from surrounding myself with open-minded (not necessarily "like-minded") individuals who posses a burning desire to learn and to share what they've learned. Learned as "fact" - not dogma or ideology regardless of the topic and shared so that I can increase my knowledge and, hopefully, pass some along to others as well.

Of the "x" hundred (thousand?) Groups and MBs on MFP, THIS group (and possibly one or two others) constitutes the sum total of those that meet that test and I thank you and all the others, for that.

I agree for the most part. The forum change has been a blessing in disguise, because I can bypass the sandbox (or, as someone else put it, the "litter box") entirely in my "workflow" through the site. It turns out that the Profile page is considered by the system to be part of the "Community" tab (even though you can only view your own profile from the "Home" tab). So, since I have notifications turned off for my own wall posts, I go to my profile and check for responses, then hit the "Groups" link to check out activity in the groups.

I'll respond to a sandbox post once in a while, to direct them and other new people to one of the groups. If it's gotten too vitriolic already, I'll send a PM to the original poster, but I kind of prefer posting to the sandbox post, so that any new people that haven't made themselves known, but looked at the thread to try to find like-minded people might see my post and come to a group before giving up. I've had a number of people message me, thanking me for pointing them to these groups, because they were disheartened by the responses they got and were ready to leave MFP.

It's really sad it's like this, but complaining to MFP is futile. The worst offenders know how to skirt the rules as written (making it almost impossible to report an individual post and have it taken seriously, because in isolation, their posts are arguably not violating anything, but the aggregate, undertones, and fact that several seek out particular posts are the problem), and the MFP staff just dismisses complaints that the general culture of the message boards is toxic.

heidimmto wrote: »

<snip>

Deansdad101. Thank you for offering sound advice w/o shoving it down people's throats. We and especially the "sandbox" needs more people like you. I've killed myself for so long trying to lose weight without success, that I'd really love to go out to the sandbox and sing LCHF praises but some people in there can be really close minded and even aggressive if you disagree with them.

On other topics, any recommendations on how to increase fat intake without using so much dairy. I'm getting sick of cheese and butter!!!

Hi Heid;

Thanks for the kind words you are more than welcome.

For fats, if you haven't already look to fatty meats in small doses for more meals (bacon, sausage, pepperoni, or whatever leftover from last night diner, in an omelette.

Coconut oil and/or heavy cream in your coffee, and 70/30 ground beef however you like it (burgers, mini meatloaf). High fat meats where ever possible and chicken with skin (wrapped in bacon?).

I'm lucky in that I don't think I could ever get tired of cheese (or most of the other high fat dairy products but I can see how others might. Key is to keep finding "new" high fat foods to add to your repertoire.

Stick around here and I'm sure you'll get lots of good suggestions - the LCD "groupies" are great bunch!

Mufflana wrote: »

Just got started with lchf and I am loving it, my goals are both weight loss and better health, less creaking joints etc, so not much exercise at the moment. Glad to find this for support

Muff;

Welcome aboard!

Stick around and I'm betting you'll be even "gladder" (G) you did.

It's a great group of like-minded, thinking, folks - many of whom have been "doing it" for quite a while and have gone through most of the "issues" people face along the way.

Nobody knows all the "answers" and as you probably know, what affects one person may or may not affect another so for most questions there simply is no simple, "black or white" answer.

People can make suggestions (hopefully based on the "science") which "should" help, but only you can know if it "works" for you or not.

There is; however, a pretty good "core" set of "basics" that applies to MOST folks and if one abides by those, will produce the desired results - as long as the expectations are "reasonable".