help, I've stalled
mherbert0
Posts: 18 Member
Hey all,
I've been Keto for 3.5 months now. In the first 2.5 months the weight melted off with no effort, it was great. I lost a total of 33 pounds in that time frame (still have another 80ish pounds to go). However, for the last month I've been completely stalled. I still feel great and I'm still deep into ketosis (around 2.5 mmol/L), but the scale just won't move.
Since starting I've seen vast improvements in my energy levels and health markers. I've decided this is a lifestyle I enjoy, and can live with for the rest of my life. So I'm not thinking about giving up or anything crazy ... I'd just like to see that scale start moving again.
For the record, I eat about 1600 kcals a day, with a paltry 20g of carbs. I get moderate exercise (weight train 3 times a week, walk 5 days a week, and splitting/stacking wood for the winter).
I'm hoping somebody has some good advice for how to break a stall. To date, I have tried 2 things: 1) 24 hour fast 2) drinking lots of extra water .... neither seemed to have a significant effect.
Thanks
I've been Keto for 3.5 months now. In the first 2.5 months the weight melted off with no effort, it was great. I lost a total of 33 pounds in that time frame (still have another 80ish pounds to go). However, for the last month I've been completely stalled. I still feel great and I'm still deep into ketosis (around 2.5 mmol/L), but the scale just won't move.
Since starting I've seen vast improvements in my energy levels and health markers. I've decided this is a lifestyle I enjoy, and can live with for the rest of my life. So I'm not thinking about giving up or anything crazy ... I'd just like to see that scale start moving again.
For the record, I eat about 1600 kcals a day, with a paltry 20g of carbs. I get moderate exercise (weight train 3 times a week, walk 5 days a week, and splitting/stacking wood for the winter).
I'm hoping somebody has some good advice for how to break a stall. To date, I have tried 2 things: 1) 24 hour fast 2) drinking lots of extra water .... neither seemed to have a significant effect.
Thanks
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Replies
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I'm no expert so can't suggest anything but patience. You've had amazing results so far! Just give your body a bit more time. I had a stall of almost a month. What happened is that after that I lost a bunch all of a sudden.
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MH;Hey all,
I've been Keto for 3.5 months now. In the first 2.5 months the weight melted off with no effort, it was great. I lost a total of 33 pounds in that time frame (still have another 80ish pounds to go). However, for the last month I've been completely stalled. I still feel great and I'm still deep into ketosis (around 2.5 mmol/L), but the scale just won't move.
Since starting I've seen vast improvements in my energy levels and health markers. I've decided this is a lifestyle I enjoy, and can live with for the rest of my life. So I'm not thinking about giving up or anything crazy ... I'd just like to see that scale start moving again.
For the record, I eat about 1600 kcals a day, with a paltry 20g of carbs. I get moderate exercise (weight train 3 times a week, walk 5 days a week, and splitting/stacking wood for the winter).
I'm hoping somebody has some good advice for how to break a stall. To date, I have tried 2 things: 1) 24 hour fast 2) drinking lots of extra water .... neither seemed to have a significant effect.
Thanks
Couple of questions but first, it would "really" help if you open your diary so folks might have a look and see if anything pops out.
To the details you have provided:- When you say "I've been keto....and, around 2.5mmol..." is that an actual measurement (using blood ketone test), or a "guess", or another type of test?
- Is "1600 kcal/day" - TOTAL or NET (eating back exercise cals)?
- Is "20g carbs" - TOTAL or NET?
As I'm sure you know, "stalls" are not uncommon and re-evaluating your "targets" on at least a monthly basis (during weight loss) is necessary.
Last but not least, what are your macros (as percentage of total cals), AND what is your absolute protein number?
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DD,
I just made my profile public. I only discovered this site about 2 weeks ago, so the data is limited, but pretty complete for that time period ... minus some exercise, which I only just started tracking this week.
To your questions:- I check my fasting ketones every morning using the Nova Max Plus. I've been bouncing around the 2.5 mark for the past couple of weeks. The lowest reading I've ever had since I started measuring back in July was 0.7, the highest was 3.5 ... But I'm most consistently in the 2-3 range. I also check my BG levels three times a day (morning, noon, and night). They have been stabilizing in the 100s-110's, except for the morning which can vary wildly from 150 to 110 (I suspect due to the dawn phenomenon). When I last had my HBA1C checked (about 1.5 months ago) it was at 6.5. I am a recovering diabetic, currently not on any meds.
- 1,600 kcal a day is Total, not net.
- 20g carbs is total not net.
I've set my macros to 5% carbs (20g), 25% protein (100g). and 70% fat (124g). I generally track very closely to those numbers.
Thanks for looking!0 -
MH:DD,
I just made my profile public. I only discovered this site about 2 weeks ago, so the data is limited, but pretty complete for that time period ... minus some exercise, which I only just started tracking this week.
To your questions:- I check my fasting ketones every morning using the Nova Max Plus. I've been bouncing around the 2.5 mark for the past couple of weeks. The lowest reading I've ever had since I started measuring back in July was 0.7, the highest was 3.5 ... But I'm most consistently in the 2-3 range. I also check my BG levels three times a day (morning, noon, and night). They have been stabilizing in the 100s-110's, except for the morning which can vary wildly from 150 to 110 (I suspect due to the dawn phenomenon). When I last had my HBA1C checked (about 1.5 months ago) it was at 6.5. I am a recovering diabetic, currently not on any meds.
- 1,600 kcal a day is Total, not net.
- 20g carbs is total not net.
I've set my macros to 5% carbs (20g), 25% protein (100g). and 70% fat (124g). I generally track very closely to those numbers.
Thanks for looking!
I'm still not seeing your diary - might just be it sometimes takes a little while (or maybe restarting MFP) for the change to "take", or, if I remember correctly I think it actually takes 2 changes (one in profile, one in diary settings) to make it visible.
Anyway, from your reply, it looks like you are doing pretty much everything exactly by the book - don't really know what to suggest to explain the stall.
If 20 carbs had been working, and since you are testing blood ketones, I doubt that's the issue so I think I'd look to total cals first (have you adjusted TDEE?), and assuming that's ok, it pretty much leaves fat/protein ratio.
Protein certainly isn't "way" too high but it's probably more than adequate (I know you are exercising but even so I doubt you'd see any negative effect of reducing it some AND increasing fat.
Give it a shot for a week or two and see if it breaks the logjam.
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Ok, fixed my diary it's now public (forgot to change the 2nd setting).
Not sure what TDEE is?
Anyway, I have a sneaking suspicion something in my endocrine system is out of whack. I had my thyroid checked about 1.5 months ago, and it came back as elevated (hyperthyroid) and about the same time I had a landslide of weight loss: 1 lb a day for 10 days straight - while I did exactly zero exercise. But after 10 days it stopped, and that was when the plateau began. Since the plateau, I've had slightly less energy (despite adding exercise back in), so I'm wondering if somehow my thyroid has flopped to hypo. Not sure ... I guess I'll have to go back to the doc to get it checked.
In the meantime, I think I will try a fat fast (ala Atkins) for a couple of days: 1,000 calories 90% fat, 10% protein. I recently read "Living Low Carb" (which incidentally is an excellent book) and it had a dozen or so suggestions for breaking a stall, one of which was the fat fast.0 -
Welcome! I've had a stall before and understand how frustrating that can be. I just have a couple things that may help. Are you weighing/measuring everything? Weighing is more accurate. And I've heard some people can stall with too much dairy/cheese. I'm not saying that you are eating too much, but maybe you could drop it for a few days to see if helps bring you back on track.0
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MH:Ok, fixed my diary it's now public (forgot to change the 2nd setting).
Not sure what TDEE is?
Anyway, I have a sneaking suspicion something in my endocrine system is out of whack. I had my thyroid checked about 1.5 months ago, and it came back as elevated (hyperthyroid) and about the same time I had a landslide of weight loss: 1 lb a day for 10 days straight - while I did exactly zero exercise. But after 10 days it stopped, and that was when the plateau began. Since the plateau, I've had slightly less energy (despite adding exercise back in), so I'm wondering if somehow my thyroid has flopped to hypo. Not sure ... I guess I'll have to go back to the doc to get it checked.
In the meantime, I think I will try a fat fast (ala Atkins) for a couple of days: 1,000 calories 90% fat, 10% protein. I recently read "Living Low Carb" (which incidentally is an excellent book) and it had a dozen or so suggestions for breaking a stall, one of which was the fat fast.
The thyroid issue "could" be it. My wife was diagnosed with hashimoto years ago and drs told her to expect weight gain but I think that was more a reaction to the meds than actually to the thyroid itself (not sure).
In any case, after many years on the meds (synthroid) gaining weight, she's lost it all (and more) since going LCHF (another piece of medical "common wisdom" down the drain<G>).
I agree that a trip back to the doc would be in order to see if that actually is contributing (or if it needs to be addressed).
TDEE is "Total Daily Energy Expenditure" which is usually calculated by any of the online calculators.
Basically it's nothing more than a % multiplier added to BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate, the number of calories your body requires in 24 hours to do nothing).
The % is based on the selection you make for "average" daily activity (sedentary, light exercise, etc).
So the calculators start with BMR (calculated from age, sex, weight), add a % for activity to get TDEE, then subtract appropriate number of cals/day to match the weight loss rate you select (0.5, 1.0, 2.0/week).
There are 4 or 5 algorithms that all of the calculators (and there are hundreds of them) are all based on (with slight variations) and, IMO, pretty much all of them are nothing more than guesses, multiplied by estimates, times the mostly inaccurate guesstimates of cals in and cals out entered by the users.
They are, at best, a VERY rough "starting point" accurate for a very small percentage of those using them and should be taken with a VERY LARGE grain of salt as to the absolute numbers.
This one is as good as any and will also bring you to the 5:2 IF site if you are interested in looking into their form of a fasting diet.
I used it for a while (back before LCHF/NK), worked quite well. I'm not very familiar with the "fat fast" you speak of, but I am a "believer" in the benefit of fasting in general as there are a number of trials which have demonstrated repeatable benefits. (depending on the form and duration).
I'll be interested to see your results (both as to the BMR/TDEE you calculate and to the "fat fast"). Not sure how you arrived at the 1600 cal target but if that's in the ball park it's a mystery and if it doesn't "fix" itself (as many stalls do) I think it's back to changing one thing at a time, giving that time and if that doesn't do it, changing the next one.
I'm still betting it'll come down to more fat, less protein. The fat fast "might" do it but I think it will take more than a day or so...we'll see.
All signs (except for the new thyroid issue) point to you doing everything right but I too would have expected you to "snap out" of it by now.
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deansdad101 wrote: »
MH:Ok, fixed my diary it's now public (forgot to change the 2nd setting).
Not sure what TDEE is?
Anyway, I have a sneaking suspicion something in my endocrine system is out of whack. I had my thyroid checked about 1.5 months ago, and it came back as elevated (hyperthyroid) and about the same time I had a landslide of weight loss: 1 lb a day for 10 days straight - while I did exactly zero exercise. But after 10 days it stopped, and that was when the plateau began. Since the plateau, I've had slightly less energy (despite adding exercise back in), so I'm wondering if somehow my thyroid has flopped to hypo. Not sure ... I guess I'll have to go back to the doc to get it checked.
In the meantime, I think I will try a fat fast (ala Atkins) for a couple of days: 1,000 calories 90% fat, 10% protein. I recently read "Living Low Carb" (which incidentally is an excellent book) and it had a dozen or so suggestions for breaking a stall, one of which was the fat fast.
<snipped>
There are 4 or 5 algorithms that all of the calculators (and there are hundreds of them) are all based on (with slight variations) and, IMO, pretty much all of them are nothing more than guesses, multiplied by estimates, times the mostly inaccurate guesstimates of cals in and cals out entered by the users.
They are, at best, a VERY rough "starting point" accurate for a very small percentage of those using them and should be taken with a VERY LARGE grain of salt as to the absolute numbers.
This one is as good as any and will also bring you to the 5:2 IF site if you are interested in looking into their form of a fasting diet.
I used it for a while (back before LCHF/NK), worked quite well. I'm not very familiar with the "fat fast" you speak of, but I am a "believer" in the benefit of fasting in general as there are a number of trials which have demonstrated repeatable benefits. (depending on the form and duration).
<snipped>
Sorry....forget the link - here you go.
tinyurl.com/kuufcm7
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1 lb a day for 10 days straight - while I did exactly zero exercise. But after 10 days it stopped, and that was when the plateau began. Since the plateau, I've had slightly less energy (despite adding exercise back in)
How long did you go without exercising? Just those 10 days, or longer? When I started keto I was nearly 100% sedentary and I lost a bunch of weight in my first 6 months or so, decided it was time to add in some activity and joined a gym and started going working out 3 days a week. The first day I went I gained like 3 pounds of water weight and stalled for 4-6 weeks, but I was losing inches and was clearly doing something good for myself, I just had to ignore the scale for a bit.
How big a deficit are you eating at? Did you use a calc to figure out the macros (http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/ for example?). If you're pretty active and lifting regularly you could find you need more protein or more calories to sustain the activity. I don't see your weight listed anywhere, apologies if I missed that.
Of course, these are just spitball suggestions. If you've had an issue in the past with thyroid levels I'd absolutely wonder about that and be heading to the doctor soon to see if the culprit can be found in some simple bloodwork. I'd be more worried about a newly unusually low energy level than the stall possibly. If you're feeling good in general and not losing, deal with the stall. If you aren't feeling well and something is clearly off deal with that and see if the stall in weight loss was a side effect of whatever other thing is going on.0 -
I've been reading up on intermittent fasting and how it has numerous health benefits and can also help break you out of a plateau. I don't know if it has worked for anyone else in the group, but it's worth looking into.0
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RL4;RockLobster4 wrote: »I've been reading up on intermittent fasting and how it has numerous health benefits and can also help break you out of a plateau. I don't know if it has worked for anyone else in the group, but it's worth looking into.
If you haven't seen this video it's very interesting and provides a wealth of info for those interested in IF.
It's long (almost an hour), and a little "dry" at the beginning but it really does require watching all the way through in one sitting - so curl up on your couch, set aside the time, and grab a glass of the grape (or whatever) and enjoy.
https://vimeo.com/51836380
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Thanks @deansdad101 - I'll be sure to watch it!0
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@radiii, I went about 20 days total without exercise. I suspect the fast weight loss for the first 10 days, when I went sedentary, was water loss. After waiting 20 days, and having no loss at all for the last 10, I added exercise back in. I did gain a small amount (2-3 lbs), but eventually lost that. I had gone for 30 days straight with my weight staying steady within a narrow 5 lb range. I have used a calc (indeed the one you mention), and according to that one I am at a 45% deficit. It is entirely possible I am not eating enough calories, which has slowed my metabolic rate.
@RockLobster4, I have read a lot of good things about intermittent fasting (IF). However, I haven't seen any actual studies on it, only lots of personal experiences. When I tried it, I found it pretty easy, but I didn't notice any difference (positive or negative) from my one day trial. However, I will probably try it again at some point, maybe for a few days next time. For the record, I've also read some pretty amazing claims on Resistant Starch -- which I did try for a week, and didn't notice any difference, but YMMV.
@deansdad101, thanks for all the great tips. I have looked up my TDEE before, and got anywhere from 2,200 to 2,900 kcals. I'm at a pretty significant deficit with 1,600 kcals, I should be dropping weight no problem.0 -
UPDATE:
On Friday (11/7) I decided to try an "Egg Fast" (google it). Essentially, you eat nothing but eggs, 1 Tbs of fat per egg (butter, coconut oil, etc), and cheese for all your meals. The theory behind it is that the Choline in the egg yolks and Casein in the cheese are essentially Liver "super foods", and help boost the livers ability to metabolize fat. This works out well for me, because these are some of my favorite foods anyway (though I do miss my bacon).
So far so good. I lost 1.4 lbs the first day and 1.9 lbs the second. I'l be doing this for 5 days total, plus 2 days of weaning. I've noticed that my energy levels are back up since starting, which is nice, and overall I feel great. I will update this thread with results as things continue.
Thanks all for the help and suggestions!
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MH:UPDATE:
On Friday (11/7) I decided to try an "Egg Fast" (google it). Essentially, you eat nothing but eggs, 1 Tbs of fat per egg (butter, coconut oil, etc), and cheese for all your meals. The theory behind it is that the Choline in the egg yolks and Casein in the cheese are essentially Liver "super foods", and help boost the livers ability to metabolize fat. This works out well for me, because these are some of my favorite foods anyway (though I do miss my bacon).
So far so good. I lost 1.4 lbs the first day and 1.9 lbs the second. I'l be doing this for 5 days total, plus 2 days of weaning. I've noticed that my energy levels are back up since starting, which is nice, and overall I feel great. I will update this thread with results as things continue.
Thanks all for the help and suggestions!
A new one on me (hadn't heard of it before).
Anecdotal reports seem encouraging, especially in the "breaking stalls" arena so be very interested to see your results.
Best of luck with it, hope it works as well for you as it apparently has for (at least) some others.
Do keep us posted - thanks
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I am at a 45% deficit. It is entirely possible I am not eating enough calories, which has slowed my metabolic rate.
No idea with the deficit with the stall (though it sounds like you may be getting past that right now, which is great news), but that sized deficit + some activity seems like it might account for you not feeling your best at times.0 -
UPDATE:
On Friday (11/7) I decided to try an "Egg Fast" (google it). Essentially, you eat nothing but eggs, 1 Tbs of fat per egg (butter, coconut oil, etc), and cheese for all your meals. The theory behind it is that the Choline in the egg yolks and Casein in the cheese are essentially Liver "super foods", and help boost the livers ability to metabolize fat. This works out well for me, because these are some of my favorite foods anyway (though I do miss my bacon).
So far so good. I lost 1.4 lbs the first day and 1.9 lbs the second. I'l be doing this for 5 days total, plus 2 days of weaning. I've noticed that my energy levels are back up since starting, which is nice, and overall I feel great. I will update this thread with results as things continue.
Thanks all for the help and suggestions!
I'd also note that you ate over 1600 every day of your "egg fast" except today (so far?). Given that you're male, lift weights, and chop wood, I'm willing to bet that your primary issue is too little food. Splitting wood is quite labor intensive, even with power tools, and you really need to fuel that.
Additionally, 1600 calories is very low for men in general. For comparison, I'm female, and while I'm only in my late 20s, my TDEE for sedentary is calculated at about 2400. You should be able to lose weight fairly easily on quite a bit more than you're subsisting on right now.
Jimmy Moore talks about this quite a bit in his podcasts and blog (including this recent one), it's definitely worth a read, at least the part talking about LCHF and thyroid.0 -
UPDATE:
So I've completed 4 days of the egg fast. To date, I've lost 4.1 lbs. I actually gained 7/10ths of a pound on day 3, but lost 1.5 today. I still have 1 more full day of egg fast, followed by 2 days of weaning back to my standard keto diet.
My macros on this diet are at about 84/16/0). My blood ketone test has increased from 2.3 mM on day 1 to 3.5 mM today.
Overall, I feel great. Plenty of energy, and overall feeling of well being (part of this could be the happiness I get from seeing the scale move again?). After 4 full days of eating nothing but eggs, fat, and cheese ... I am surprisingly not sick of eggs yet.
@Dragonwolf, I'm finding myself agreeing with you. I think that my calorie deficit may have been a bit too much, and that may have been the root cause of my stall. I've reset my calorie goal to 2,100 per day (keeping my macro's at 70/25/5). Unfortunately that means I've changed 2 things at once (egg fast + calorie deficit), so I can't really be sure which one broke my stall. Oh well, I'm happy that the stall is at least broken (hopefully it stays broken for a while!).0 -
MH;UPDATE:
So I've completed 4 days of the egg fast. To date, I've lost 4.1 lbs. I actually gained 7/10ths of a pound on day 3, but lost 1.5 today. I still have 1 more full day of egg fast, followed by 2 days of weaning back to my standard keto diet.
My macros on this diet are at about 84/16/0). My blood ketone test has increased from 2.3 mM on day 1 to 3.5 mM today.
Overall, I feel great. Plenty of energy, and overall feeling of well being (part of this could be the happiness I get from seeing the scale move again?). After 4 full days of eating nothing but eggs, fat, and cheese ... I am surprisingly not sick of eggs yet.
@Dragonwolf, I'm finding myself agreeing with you. I think that my calorie deficit may have been a bit too much, and that may have been the root cause of my stall. I've reset my calorie goal to 2,100 per day (keeping my macro's at 70/25/5). Unfortunately that means I've changed 2 things at once (egg fast + calorie deficit), so I can't really be sure which one broke my stall. Oh well, I'm happy that the stall is at least broken (hopefully it stays broken for a while!).
GREAT news!!!
Thank you for the update and the verification of ketone numbers.
You are right of course about the two variables and there's always the possibility that it was just "time" for it to break but in the end, who cares when you meet with success!
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Interesting stuff here. Glad you broke your stall MH.0
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UPDATE:
After completing day 5 of my egg fast, I bounced back up 1/2 lb. So my final weights looked like this:
Started egg fast on Friday 11/7 with a starting weight of: 261.4 lb
end day1: 260.0 lbs (1,790 kcals -- 84%f / 0%c / 16%p)
end day2: 258.1 lbs (1,915 kcals -- 83%f / 1%c / 16%p)
end day3: 258.8 lbs (2,266 kcals -- 81%f / 3%c / 16%p)
end day4: 257.3 lbs (1,553 kcals -- 84%f / 0%c / 16%p)
end day5: 257.8 lbs (1,915 kcals -- 85%f / 0%c / 15%p)
NOTE: the carbs came exclusively from cream cheese
Total lost: 3.6 lbs
After the 5 days of egg fast (incidentally I agree with deansdad, it bothers me that it is called a "fast", when a fast really means not eating anything, but I digress), so, like I was saying, after 5 days of egg fast I was supposed to do 2 days of "weaning" where 1-2 of my meals are still egg-fast, but the other meals are my "normal" keto diet. Unfortunately I made a mistake, and left my breakfast and lunch on the counter before heading out into the back country for the day. So my first day of weaning ended up being a 24 hour fast. Then I threw caution into the wind on my second weaning day, and just ate what a I wanted (all keto of course)
end day 6: 257.1 lbs (1,111 kcals -- 67%f / 9%c / 24%p)
end day 7: 258.9 lbs (1,800 kcals -- 71%f / 3%c / 26%p)
So I regained 1.1 lbs 2 days after the egg fast had finished. Making my "actual" weight loss 2.5 lbs for the egg fast.
So for me at least, the egg fast seemed to help in breaking the plateau/stall. Incidentally, today (day 8), my weight dropped to 256.6 (on 2,091 kcals) brining total weight lost since starting to 4.8 lbs. I must admit, it is very nice to see the scale moving again after a month of bouncing up and down +/- 2 lbs.
If I remember, I will try to do one last update in a week or two, to report if the stall is actually broken long term.0 -
Congrats. Here's to the new downward trend sticking! 0
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Glad you broke your stall! Thanks for sharing all this great info. I may try this if I stall again.0
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I am a moderator on Jimmy Moore's LivinLaVidaLoCarb site and I remember doing the "egg fest" along with him several years ago. I'm almost 60 years old and have lost 50 pounds this year. Then my weight loss stalled for approximately 5 weeks.
After reading this discussion I decided to try the EF again. Last week I broke my stall and lost 6 lbs. I ate LC over the weekend and gained 1.9. Pretty good net loss. Yesterday I started another EF and already have taken off those pounds I regained.
Doing this EF has made my realize that my body responds better to 79% fat, 20% protein and 1% carbohydrates.0
This discussion has been closed.