if your not in maintainance mode, why are you increasing your fat? You should only be increasing your fat once you've reached your desired weight so you wont continue to loose weight.

How have you determined what your macros should be? Here's a calculator if needed http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/ but i use the macros that are based off of the findings of dr. phinney and dr. volek (i think thats the name)
here's a link to that http://www.askthelowcarbexperts.com/2012/08/23-long-term-stalls-weight-gain-even-on-a-well-formulated-low-carb-diet-dr-stephen-phinney/
For weight loss, you'd want to stay towards the lower end of the fat intake. But you should make sure your hitting the min protein at the very least, but more is better.

mizaditude wrote: »

if your not in maintainance mode, why are you increasing your fat? You should only be increasing your fat once you've reached your desired weight so you wont continue to loose weight.

How have you determined what your macros should be? Here's a calculator if needed http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/ but i use the macros that are in the optimal keto living facebook group.

If you decrease your carbs, you have to increase something to maintain the calorie level...

faw1001 wrote: »

So I started 'quitting sugar', then progressed to Primal then to LCHF over the course of about 2 weeks while absorbing all the info I could get my hands on. I started this 4 weeks ago tomorrow and although I lost about 4.5 kg in the first couple of weeks, I gained back 1.5 of that last week and no loss so far this week
What am I doing wrong? I cut down my carbs in recent weeks. I am in Keto (according to my test strips). I have been increasing the amount of fat I eat and now I am watching how much protein I have too.
Any ideas? My diary is open.
P.S. also my muscles have no energy and my skins has turned to cr*p!

You seem to be getting a large portion of your calories from foods that are fairly empty, nutritionally. The last couple of days, you've basically been living off of cream (today, especially). Try to make sure you keep eating a variety of foods and include vegetables.

Aside from that, it sounds about right. If you're switching from a high-carb diet, then you're going to go through a phase where things may get worse before they get better. This is often referred to as "keto flu." It's basically a detox/withdrawal reaction, as sugar can be physically addictive. It will pass, just make sure you're drinking enough water, getting enough electrolytes, and eating enough.

Your muscles have "no energy," because your body hasn't yet adjusted to using fat as its primary substrate for fuel. It's still searching for glycogen that is no longer there. If you lift, you'll likely want to back off the intensity for a while, and work your way back up. It's kind of like a runner switching to minimalist shoes and a mid-foot strike -- they can't just go out and run their usual workout distance. They have to back off until they get used to their new "normal," and work back up again. In the long run, it can result in comparable (or even improved, depending on your metrics) performance, but you have to back off, first.

Your skin issues could be a couple of different things. You're not very specific about what "crap" means, here. Did you consume as much dairy as you're consuming right now? It's possible that you're sensitive to dairy, and the uptick in consumption is causing your problems. Dairy has been known to cause acne in people who are sensitive to it.

Additionally, various other skin issues may also be a result of the detox reaction. It's not unheard of for the skin to react when starting a now protocol. It should clear up in a week or two if this is the case. The skin is our largest organ, and one of the largest ways we get rid of waste and toxins and whatnot. Give it some time.

As for weight loss, your weight fluctuates on a regular basis. especially since you're female. It's very likely as simple as that it's a time of the month where you hold on to water weight a little more. It could also be simply because you've depleted the glycogen stores that your body was using the first couple of weeks (the depletion of which were what were causing the big weight loss numbers). A week, and even two, is nothing. Weight loss is not linear. Keep doing what you're doing, making only some tweaks to ensure you're getting proper nutrition, and don't freak out if the scale doesn't go down every single time you weigh yourself. The scale is only a small part of the picture.

Also, a note about the ketostix -- they show that you're producing ketones, but they do not show that you're using them (producing and using are two different things). In fact, if the urine keto strips are picking up a lot of ketones, that means your body hasn't begun to use them efficiently yet and is discarding them as waste. It's when the strips show a drop in ketone levels that you're likely actually using them. Blood ketone strips are more accurate (though they are expensive) and can give you an actual number of the amount of ketones floating around in your blood for your body to use.

Also, do a search for "optimal keto living" on facebook, thats a great group with lots of helpful info based on research.

LoraKay131 wrote: »

wow, i just went and found the keto page on fb that mzaditude recommended, and reevaluated my macros, as well. big difference in protein. i am happy with this. thank you, msaditude, for the guide.

Im glad you found it useful. In this group the consensus is that your fat shouldn't be higher than your protein in grams when your in weightloss mode because your eating fat but you also want your body to use the fat it already has to burn. If your eating a ton of fat theres no reason for your body to burn the fat from your *kitten* lol. They don't do the "eat more fat" thing because during weight loss fat is coming from your body and from the plate, not just the plate.

faw1001 wrote: »

mizaditude wrote: »

Im glad you found it useful. In this group the consensus is that your fat shouldn't be higher than your protein in grams when your in weightloss mode because your eating fat but you also want your body to use the fat it already has to burn. If your eating a ton of fat theres no reason for your body to burn the fat from your *kitten* lol. They don't do the "eat more fat" thing because during weight loss fat is coming from your body and from the plate, not just the plate.

So you recommend eating equal protein and fat %'s with low carb?

I go by the chart thats posted in the group, so i try to stay at the low end of that range since im in weight loss mode. But at this point, generally my protein is 100-120g and fat between 60-80g. Prior to decreasing the fat and increasing my protein, i wasn't gaining but i wasn't losing either. I increased my protein and gained 2 pounds initially but within the month i have lost a total of 5lbs, not including those inital 2 i gained. So it has helped me, personally

GaleHawkins wrote: »

mizaditude wrote: »

faw1001 wrote: »

mizaditude wrote: »

Im glad you found it useful. In this group the consensus is that your fat shouldn't be higher than your protein in grams when your in weightloss mode because your eating fat but you also want your body to use the fat it already has to burn. If your eating a ton of fat theres no reason for your body to burn the fat from your *kitten* lol. They don't do the "eat more fat" thing because during weight loss fat is coming from your body and from the plate, not just the plate.

So you recommend eating equal protein and fat %'s with low carb?

I go by the chart thats posted in the group, so i try to stay at the low end of that range since im in weight loss mode. But at this point, generally my protein is 100-120g and fat between 60-80g. Prior to decreasing the fat and increasing my protein, i wasn't gaining but i wasn't losing either. I increased my protein and gained 2 pounds initially but within the month i have lost a total of 5lbs, not including those inital 2 i gained. So it has helped me, personally

Thanks for sharing that. It makes sense that the body fat burned (net loss of fat) would make up part of the % of fat. I started LC using mainly coconut oil for pain management and I am from 7-8 down to 2-3 on a 1-10 scale. Now I want to start on losing weight aspect of LC. Ditched sugar and grains but it took to months to pull that off completely. Personal I think ditching the sugar cut pain levels the most. Being at 63 and years of yo yoing on traditional diets this time around is not as easy as before for sure.

Gale;

While it might "make sense..." at first glance, and appear "official" because it's posted on some facebook page, you and I are old enough to know that "things aren't always as they appear to be" <g>.

I have no doubt that the individual experiences described above are true and don't question those who report individual results that run counter to the "general recommendations".

So much of ANY dieting regimen is individual specific and determined to a large degree by any particular person's overall metabolic interactions that there simply is NO "one size fits all" and "general" recommendations must be viewed as "starting points" to be adjusted as necessary to accommodate the individual.

That said, however, one (or a relatively small group %-wise) of "outliers" does not change the "science" or the results of trials that define the consensus of opinion - nor does it change what is considered "best advice" for the majority.

Very few of the common wisdom recommendations are "hard and fast".
Some will be able to reach (and/or maintain) fat adaptation at 35g/day, others require <10g. Some can remain in ketosis with protein intake above 125g - others will be "kicked out" at 60.

Fat adaptation will be established for some in a couple weeks, for others it will take 6 or more. And, if proper macro ratios are not arrived at (excessive protein for example) might never be achieved.

It all "depends".

Carb and protein levels, most would agree are based on firm numbers (specific number of grams - 20g carbs, 65g protein e.g.) the number remains fixed and only becomes a % for ease of comparison.

I'd not seen the chart referenced above but neither have I ever heard anyone quote protein recommendations based on "height" - it's ALWAYS a percentage of a weight which makes a whole lot more "sense". Opinions vary on the base measurement to use (LBM, "ideal/goal" body weight, current bw, etc) as do they on the multipliers but the "range" any of them provide is always much narrower than those depicted on the chart above.

Indeed, a change of as little as 5g's of protein has been shown to effectively halt ketone production when the increase exceeded the test subject's protein "resistance" level.

Rule of thumb (generalization) 55-100 grams is the range that "most" will fall in and when the proper level is determined - more is NOT better. (those engaged in "extreme" exercise levels excluded, at least intermittently).

There actually IS "hard science" behind the idea that INCREASING FAT (and thereby decreasing protein) DOES result in increased weight loss.

It's all about how the body "converts" food sources to energy and promotes (or inhibits) the production of ketones, glucose, fatty acids, and a whole host of others.

This article is a pretty good "mix" between the hard science and still being understandable by those of us not comfortable with all the "science lingo".

tinyurl.com/nwsktv3

Hope it helps.

ebay.com/itm/Advanced-Professional-Breathalyser-Detector-Police-Digital-Breath-Alcohol-Tester/381065373751?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27538%26meid%3Df14a5ef0454140efaeac22ec1ce1bb97%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D11353%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D121300767365&rt=nc

This is the type meter I use to determine if I am in or out of ketosis. The low end ones will measure alcohol, acetone, etc unlike the expensive ones that will only detect alcohol. Of course the readout is scaled for alcohol so it is just a relative reference to me. If I blow .02 then the next time .08 I 'assume' I am at a higher level of ketosis. The harder I work the higher the read out because I am burning more fat I guess. I have been using a meter like these for four months now. The two I am now using give different values but that is OK. If I get into some accidental carbs the numbers will drop some. After the one and only carb nite last week it took 12 hours to get a .0000 readout and a couple days to get over .02 readout.

aaaagh....

mizaditude wrote: »

Im glad you found it useful. In this group the consensus is that your fat shouldn't be higher than your protein in grams when your in weightloss mode because your eating fat but you also want your body to use the fat it already has to burn. If your eating a ton of fat theres no reason for your body to burn the fat from your *kitten* lol. They don't do the "eat more fat" thing because during weight loss fat is coming from your body and from the plate, not just the plate.

Um...no....that's not the consensus of this group. If there's any consensus to be had (not everyone follows the same low carb program, here), it leans more toward fat grams should be at least that of protein, if not more, especially when talking about the portion of people who follow keto.

The point of keto is to have your body use fat as its primary source of energy. When you're in this mode, the body doesn't really care whether that fat comes from food or the body. If you feed it less than you're burning, being keto makes it easier to tap into your stored fat. The reason this doesn't happen on high-carb is because glucose is toxic outside of a small threshold, and is, therefore, the highest priority to deal with, so everything else halts (or close to it) while there's excess glucose to handle. Fat doesn't have that issue, so the body can pull it from wherever, at will.

My protein intake hasn't really changed all that much since I started decreasing my carb intake. I've always averaged around 80-100g. What has changed is the percentage of my calories from fat vs carbs. And yet, when I keep my carbs low, I lose weight, despite gaining weight on the same number of calories, but with more carbs and less fat, due to the insulin and glucose processing issues that come with metabolic disorder and PCOS.

When you keep your calories constant, you must increase one or more macro when you decrease one or more other macros. We're not necessarily talking increasing calories when we say "eat more fat." We're talking increasing the percentage of calories you get from fat vs the percentage you get from carbs.

You lose weight when you increase your protein, because protein is not a fuel macro, and using it for fuel is very inefficient. It takes a lot of energy to turn protein into glucose, and because protein is turned to glucose when used for fuel, it's counterproductive to the goal of ketosis, anyway. It's also hard on the body to do it that way, and can cause a myriad of other issues, especially when carbs and fat are reduced beyond a certain point.

If you're still convinced that eating more fat is counterproductive to weight loss, I encourage you to look at Dr. Peter Attia's charts for when he went ketogenic. His final breakdown included 88% of calories from fat, 3-4 times the number of grams from fat as from protein. He was also actual able to eat more food and still lose weight. So no, your hypothesis that you can't/shouldn't increase fat or eat more grams of fat than protein if you want to lose weight doesn't hold water.

GaleHawkins wrote: »

mizaditude wrote: »

faw1001 wrote: »

mizaditude wrote: »

Im glad you found it useful. In this group the consensus is that your fat shouldn't be higher than your protein in grams when your in weightloss mode because your eating fat but you also want your body to use the fat it already has to burn. If your eating a ton of fat theres no reason for your body to burn the fat from your *kitten* lol. They don't do the "eat more fat" thing because during weight loss fat is coming from your body and from the plate, not just the plate.

So you recommend eating equal protein and fat %'s with low carb?

I go by the chart thats posted in the group, so i try to stay at the low end of that range since im in weight loss mode. But at this point, generally my protein is 100-120g and fat between 60-80g. Prior to decreasing the fat and increasing my protein, i wasn't gaining but i wasn't losing either. I increased my protein and gained 2 pounds initially but within the month i have lost a total of 5lbs, not including those inital 2 i gained. So it has helped me, personally

Thanks for sharing that. It makes sense that the body fat burned (net loss of fat) would make up part of the % of fat. I started LC using mainly coconut oil for pain management and I am from 7-8 down to 2-3 on a 1-10 scale. Now I want to start on losing weight aspect of LC. Ditched sugar and grains but it took to months to pull that off completely. Personal I think ditching the sugar cut pain levels the most. Being at 63 and years of yo yoing on traditional diets this time around is not as easy as before for sure.

Given the neurological effects of glucose on the body, that doesn't surprise me. Additionally, you've probably cut out foods that exacerbate inflammation (as grains are a common cause of issues, even among people without a Celiac diagnosis).

There have been numerous studies on the ketogenic diet for a number of neurological and neurodegenerative disorders, including migraines, epilepsy (for which the keto diet was originally created and used), Alzheimer's, muscular dystrophy, Parkinson's, ALS, and more.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3321471/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/

I've personally found great relief from my periodic migraines/cluster headaches from ditching grains and reducing carb intake. I've also found that the pain from a couple of degenerating discs in my spine is generally lessened when I maintain lower carbs.

I've found LCHF to be easier than the more conventional ways of eating, especially when trying to lose weight. It gets easier with time, as you lose the carb/sugar cravings, and as you start falling into routines and building habits. It takes a while, but reaching for the full fat stuff will start to become second nature.