No longer paleo
ascrit
Posts: 770 Member
I started doing paleo about a year ago thanks to my gym having a "paleo challenge." Over the past year I have gotten a lot stronger and better at CrossFit. I have also gained weight; mostly muscle but definitely some fat too. I know this because of how my clothes are fitting. Last week I met with a dietitian and after a body comp analysis paired with the results of my last blood test I have decided to bring grains back into my diet. I am still sticking with whole foods and avoiding processed ingredients but my macros goals are now 50/25/25 carbs/protein/fat. I feel like this will benefit me in the long run and be easier to achieve than the macro goals I had with paleo.
I still plan on sticking with this group though as I have learned a lot about food from being here and one of the main parts of paleo (avoiding processed food) is something I am a big believer in.
I still plan on sticking with this group though as I have learned a lot about food from being here and one of the main parts of paleo (avoiding processed food) is something I am a big believer in.
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Every body is different- it sounds like you are listening to yours!0
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I read that if you are working out, you do need a fair amount of carbs. Not so if you are sedentary or mildly active!!0
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I started doing paleo about a year ago thanks to my gym having a "paleo challenge." Over the past year I have gotten a lot stronger and better at CrossFit. I have also gained weight; mostly muscle but definitely some fat too. I know this because of how my clothes are fitting. Last week I met with a dietitian and after a body comp analysis paired with the results of my last blood test I have decided to bring grains back into my diet. I am still sticking with whole foods and avoiding processed ingredients but my macros goals are now 50/25/25 carbs/protein/fat. I feel like this will benefit me in the long run and be easier to achieve than the macro goals I had with paleo.
I still plan on sticking with this group though as I have learned a lot about food from being here and one of the main parts of paleo (avoiding processed food) is something I am a big believer in.
Lifestyles are a personal choice. No one has the right to tell you what to do and wish you all the best. I would ask about your blood tests. Did they come back bad or better? If they were bad, is this a new phenomenon? The reason I ask, is if you're making this switch to improve your cholesterol levels, you might be making a bad choice on your macro levels. One caveat to what I'm going to say, if you are ApoE4 genetic variant then none of this will hold.
What dietitians don't know and most doctors for that matter, is putting your body in a state of de novo lipogenesis is most of the problem with high cholesterol and high triglycerides. Really, the liver does a horrible job at producing fat from sugars. Just awful! But when the liver does this, your serum levels of triglycerides will be persistently elevated because your liver is constantly churning out fat. Not only that, the packaging of these fats into lipoproteins forms small cell LDL. This form of LDL is missed by LDL receptors in the liver, which clear this from the blood. This combines to give you persistent high LDL and triglycerides, and you'll test for high cholesterol. Not only that, because you are replacing fat with carbohydrates your HDL levels drop. This is because HDL's role is in the transportation of fats and cholesterol to the cells and from the cells back to the liver. HDL prefers small, medium and large chain fatty acids and mono-unsaturated fatty acids. If you need to increase your HDL, you need to eat more fat. To decrease LDL, you need to eat less digestible carbohydrate and less polyunsaturated fat. Basic primer on lipids. Increased alcohol consumption also causes the same effect through de novo lipogenesis of ethanolic metabolites to fat.
You can mess with your blood lipids by altering your macros very easily. It's also easy to be paleo and screw up your blood lipids. But if your goal is to correct them by adding grains back in, that's a slippery slope.
Now, if you're ApoE4. Your only hope is a low carb, low fat diet.
All that said, do what causes you the least amount of stress. At the end of the day, stress is so much worse for you than worrying about every last thing.1961dublin wrote: »I read that if you are working out, you do need a fair amount of carbs. Not so if you are sedentary or mildly active!!
Not necessarily true. If you're fat adapted and your working out is keeping you in line with your glycogen stores and the bodies ability to restore them via gluconeogenesis, your fine without adding in digestible carbohydrates. This mechanism can produce a surprising amount of glucose during the day and you really have to push yourself to get outside of its limits. It can be done though.
Mat Lalonde, Harvard chemist, did a whole crossfit low carb life for a while to show everyone that it's possible without problems. That said, this does not mean you should do it.
Speaking of Mat, here's a great podcast (and transcript) between him and Chris Kresser. http://chriskresser.com/rhr-what-science-really-says-about-the-paleo-diet-with-mat-lalonde
Definitely worth a listen or read.
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I don't know if this is the first time you met with that dietitian, but I'd venture to say that most dietitians will revert to what they know and how they were trained with regard to eating grains. Does this dietitian know anything about eating paleo/primal? You can get carbs from other sources than grains, i.e. sweet potatoes, fruits, vegetables. Though, I also know that some paleo/primal people eat rice because that's one grain that's the least bastardized.
It just seems that 50% carbs is a lot. I hope that your future blood-work shows improvement as you start eating grains again. Like I always hear, you are your own experiment of one. Good luck!0 -
ortega1990 wrote: »I don't know if this is the first time you met with that dietitian, but I'd venture to say that most dietitians will revert to what they know and how they were trained with regard to eating grains. Does this dietitian know anything about eating paleo/primal?
It was my first time meeting with this dietitian. She did know about paleo/primal and was not opposed to it at all. Like me she thought the best thing about paleo was its elimination of processed foods.Lifestyles are a personal choice. No one has the right to tell you what to do and wish you all the best. I would ask about your blood tests. Did they come back bad or better? If they were bad, is this a new phenomenon?
My cholesterol levels were higher after a year of paleo than they were before. Previously I was right in the middle of the healthy range and now I am on the border between healthy and too high.All that said, do what causes you the least amount of stress. At the end of the day, stress is so much worse for you than worrying about every last thing.
I think this will be the biggest impact for me overall. Unlike what I have read from most people, I still felt hungry most of the time on paleo so staying within a reasonable calorie limit was difficult. That, plus the difficulty in hitting my macros on paleo made it pretty ease to step back and reevaluate.
Thanks all for the thoughtful replies.
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Were all of the cholesterol levels higher? How about your triglycerides and HDL? What were your ratios. Those are more important than what a simple number tells you.
I too need more carbs than some people to stay healthy on paleo, I use rice and white potatoes which others won't touch. On occasion I will eat oats too. I personally see no need for gluten grains.0 -
Were all of the cholesterol levels higher? How about your triglycerides and HDL? What were your ratios. Those are more important than what a simple number tells you.
This. Also, the size of the various lipoproteins matters greatly.
As an aside, if you look at my total cholesterol, I'm way over. Badly! But when you look at the breakdown, I'm great. HDL sky high 96 with small particle size. LDL sitting at 111, but it's all good large particle and this stays consistent. Tri's at respectable 96 and stable. Blood pressure at a nice 115/60.
Now, and I've done this, I can shift these around to low HDL, high LDL (small particle), high triglycerides. Eat a lot of digestible sugar carbohydrates, throw in some alcohol, eat less fat and only lean protein. Works like a charm. It also causes my blood pressure to go up.
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Were all of the cholesterol levels higher? How about your triglycerides and HDL? What were your ratios. Those are more important than what a simple number tells you.
This. Also, the size of the various lipoproteins matters greatly.
As an aside, if you look at my total cholesterol, I'm way over. Badly! But when you look at the breakdown, I'm great. HDL sky high 96 with small particle size. LDL sitting at 111, but it's all good large particle and this stays consistent. Tri's at respectable 96 and stable. Blood pressure at a nice 115/60.
Now, and I've done this, I can shift these around to low HDL, high LDL (small particle), high triglycerides. Eat a lot of digestible sugar carbohydrates, throw in some alcohol, eat less fat and only lean protein. Works like a charm. It also causes my blood pressure to go up.
Punchgut, do you know whether pretty much any lab can distinguish between the large cell and small cell LDL? My HDL is always really good but LDL is always on the edge (sorry I don't remember the numbers). However I only recently learned that it's only the small cell you have to worry about really. I should have my numbers tested in the next few months and I wasn't sure if my PCP is likely to know what I'm talking about when I ask about this.0 -
KombuchaCat wrote: »Were all of the cholesterol levels higher? How about your triglycerides and HDL? What were your ratios. Those are more important than what a simple number tells you.
This. Also, the size of the various lipoproteins matters greatly.
As an aside, if you look at my total cholesterol, I'm way over. Badly! But when you look at the breakdown, I'm great. HDL sky high 96 with small particle size. LDL sitting at 111, but it's all good large particle and this stays consistent. Tri's at respectable 96 and stable. Blood pressure at a nice 115/60.
Now, and I've done this, I can shift these around to low HDL, high LDL (small particle), high triglycerides. Eat a lot of digestible sugar carbohydrates, throw in some alcohol, eat less fat and only lean protein. Works like a charm. It also causes my blood pressure to go up.
Punchgut, do you know whether pretty much any lab can distinguish between the large cell and small cell LDL? My HDL is always really good but LDL is always on the edge (sorry I don't remember the numbers). However I only recently learned that it's only the small cell you have to worry about really. I should have my numbers tested in the next few months and I wasn't sure if my PCP is likely to know what I'm talking about when I ask about this.
Check to see if your PCP's lab does NMRlipoprofile. If not, you can always have a VAP done. Most physicians will at least have the latter. The NMRlipoprofile is much better, but you'll get some of the important information. The NMR method gives you more though. Number of particles, HDL particle size (this matters greatly too), etc.
Always ask, and ask to see the tests that are possible. If you're in the US, labcorp will have the NMR test.0 -
KombuchaCat wrote: »Were all of the cholesterol levels higher? How about your triglycerides and HDL? What were your ratios. Those are more important than what a simple number tells you.
This. Also, the size of the various lipoproteins matters greatly.
As an aside, if you look at my total cholesterol, I'm way over. Badly! But when you look at the breakdown, I'm great. HDL sky high 96 with small particle size. LDL sitting at 111, but it's all good large particle and this stays consistent. Tri's at respectable 96 and stable. Blood pressure at a nice 115/60.
Now, and I've done this, I can shift these around to low HDL, high LDL (small particle), high triglycerides. Eat a lot of digestible sugar carbohydrates, throw in some alcohol, eat less fat and only lean protein. Works like a charm. It also causes my blood pressure to go up.
Punchgut, do you know whether pretty much any lab can distinguish between the large cell and small cell LDL? My HDL is always really good but LDL is always on the edge (sorry I don't remember the numbers). However I only recently learned that it's only the small cell you have to worry about really. I should have my numbers tested in the next few months and I wasn't sure if my PCP is likely to know what I'm talking about when I ask about this.
Check to see if your PCP's lab does NMRlipoprofile. If not, you can always have a VAP done. Most physicians will at least have the latter. The NMRlipoprofile is much better, but you'll get some of the important information. The NMR method gives you more though. Number of particles, HDL particle size (this matters greatly too), etc.
Always ask, and ask to see the tests that are possible. If you're in the US, labcorp will have the NMR test.
Thanks so much! I am in the USA so at least one of them should be available. I feel better knowing what I should be asking for
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