New here intro and input

kmac1196
kmac1196 Posts: 188 Member
edited November 12 in Social Groups
Hi! I searched for something like this and found you!

Some background....41 year old, married mom of 3 (18,15, 13).

5' 4.5" 178 lbs

Started in August 2012 at 249.6.

Calorie level started at around 1700 and I've decreased over the years. Last month, I was trying to make some movement (maintained through the summer and wanted to make up some time) so I dropped to 1400. Only last a month...hungry, tired, losing strength. I took a 2 week diet break and ate over maintenance. Then started to cut again at 1800-1850. Initially this week, I was dropping and now I seem to be going up. Caveat....TOM is due on 2/12 so PMS officially now.

Body media data says daily burn between 2742-2997 this week.

I lift weights 3 x's a week (full body 5x5....ICF). Cardio sometimes (walking). Housecleaner by trade...so active about 2 -3 hours per day. Then not so much.

I've lifted for 18 years but strictly for 3.

Currently wear a size 10 and 12 depending on brand so I'm not super hung up on the scale but I know it has to go down. Goal weight??? 140 I think.

Input? Advice on cals? Anything?

Thanks in advance.....


A visual for you that may help. :)


l388wavsc0lv.jpg

Kristen
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Replies

  • lforner46
    lforner46 Posts: 103 Member
    All I might suggest is changing it up a bit. Maybe add in a circuit training one day instead of straight up weight lifting?
  • Jennbecca33
    Jennbecca33 Posts: 321 Member
    Hi Kmac, welcome! :) Wow, what a huge change...congrats on your losses.

    Since you have a Bodymedia, I would go with the numbers it gives you. Right now, your calorie deficit is too large, even at 1800 cals daily, you are probably finding yourself really hungry as you have a 1000+ calorie deficit! This big of a calorie deficit very well could stall your progress and at some point will become unsustainable. EM2WL suggests using a smaller deficit - no more than 15%, especially since you don't have too much more to lose. I would take an average using your Bodymedia - a week or a month's worth of data. It will probably come up around 2900 for your maintenance average. Then subtract 15% from that and eat that amount everyday. You can take a new average every month in case your activity varies. This will put you eating more around 2400-2500 cals a day probably - way more than you are eating now. This is really what your body needs to function properly and loose fat easier. If you decide to eat more in line with this amount, increase your calories slowly so that your body has time to adjust to eating more. It will be much more sustainable for you in the long run. I hope this helps!
  • mymodernbabylon
    mymodernbabylon Posts: 1,038 Member
    Jenn's got it right (as per usual). Keep up the good training with weight lifting - no need to change it up. As you may have read, it's a lot harder to lose weight once you are in the healthy area (which you are, even if it's not as small a number as you'd like). The 15% deficit will help and you'll find your strength gains going up, up, up...which means you'll lose fat more readily than muscle. Keep an eye on your protein intake - should be around 1 gram per lb of lean muscle mass (or .8 grams per body weight), especially on lifting days. I'm 147 and I eat a minimum of 100 grams of protein but up it to around 130+ on lifting days.
  • kmac1196
    kmac1196 Posts: 188 Member
    Yes I hit 120
    Or more protein every day. At least. Try for 60g or more of fat. And the rest carbs. I'm going on a cruise on thurs and won't resume diet or wearing body media until the 22nd Monday. So I expect a weight gain as cals will be way over maint. Lol. I will cut at 2400 when I get back and see how that works.

    1800 seems so happy for me after 1500 for a long time. Lol.

    2400 will seem like a bulk.
  • Jennbecca33
    Jennbecca33 Posts: 321 Member
    Well, the bodymedias are pretty accurate for most people I think, more so than fitbits. Although my BMF did overestimate my calorie burn quite a bit and I don't wear it anymore for that reason. You just have to try it though and see how your body does with the calories, making sure to give your body long enough to adjust to see a trend, whether up, down or even.
  • nineateseven
    nineateseven Posts: 65 Member
    Second @Jennbecca33 and @mymodernbabylon. My estimated TDEE is around 2650 (lower than your BodyMedia data) and I was eating at 2400 last week. Even though my exercise was lower than what we used to calculated my TDEE because of a cutback/recovery week, my weight stayed the same and I lost a 1/2 inch in each of my "trouble" spots for a total of 1.5 inches lost. With your activity level, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with 2400-2500 calories :) Good luck!
  • kmac1196
    kmac1196 Posts: 188 Member
    Thank you all for your input. It's a bit nerve wracking thinking about eating that much but I have time before summer to be bloated a bit. LOL. And the cruise I'm taking should jump me right past maintenance and into surplus land (still going to lift and exercise on the cruise though). So that when I get back, I might as well try 2400. I cannot tell you how excited I will be at that level. Oh the joy of eating! LOL.....
  • kmac1196
    kmac1196 Posts: 188 Member
    edited February 2015
    Another question please.

    I see that some of you take 10 weeks or so to reset. Is that including easing up to maint?

    I am going in a 9 day cruise and leaving the day before. So technically 11 full days of eating not at a deficit. When I come back my plan is to get right to higher number. I expect to gain on the cruise. And then the smaller deficit Should bring weight loss. Right?

    Kristen
  • Jennbecca33
    Jennbecca33 Posts: 321 Member
    It really depends on your history and how your body reacts to the additional calories. For those that have restricted for a long time (usually 6 months or longer), we recommend a full reset which is 9-12 weeks eating at FULL maintenance calories (not including the time it take to get there), so it is a longer process but very much needed for those that need to heal their metabolisms. Eating at maintenance for that long is what heals your metabolism so cutting it short could hinder your efforts. You could go on your cruise and then try the 2400 when you get back for several weeks and see how you do (6 weeks or so). If you're not seeing any progress at that level, it may indicate you need to eat at maintenance longer and do more of a full reset.
  • kmac1196
    kmac1196 Posts: 188 Member
    Ah....Okay.

    I've been dieting since Aug 2012....lost slowly already (.6 lbs average). I take a day or a few off often. And a week in the summer and holidays. So I'm hoping I put in enough diet breaks to not need a full reset.

    2400 seems like so much. LOL

    I'll post when I get back and report cruise weight gain (I'm guessing 8 or so lbs). LOL.

    Kristen
  • MacCroc
    MacCroc Posts: 50 Member
    @kmac1196, in addition to all the great advice I'd also recommend not too comepletely let yourself go on the cruise foodwise. Reset usually implies raising your calories slowly by about 200 every 1-2 weeks to give your body time to adapt, this way you have a good chance of not gaining weight (I've finished my reset recently almost without gain, but it took me about 10 weeks to go from 1400 to 2500). Cruises usually offer a good selection of healthy food too, so contrlling your intake shouldn't be so hard. I don't mean track everything, I just mean stay away from that 3rd portion of free ice cream. :) And keep lifting!
  • mymodernbabylon
    mymodernbabylon Posts: 1,038 Member
    edited February 2015
    A bunch of us have a friend who eats over 3000 calories when she's not cutting. 2400 is not that much. I'm older than you by a few years and my non-cutting number is 2350 (when I'm lifting and playing hockey), so if you are younger than me, it's not surprising that your number is a bit higher (if not even higher). Believe me, you want to be able to eat as much as you can while doing a TDEE - and if you look at, realistically, what you ate before you lost weight, I bet it was a much higher number than 2400 (which isn't that much truly - just a good amount to eat).
  • mymodernbabylon
    mymodernbabylon Posts: 1,038 Member
    What's the harm in doing a reset? I didn't do a reset (cause I didn't eat a LCD) but I did want to figure out my TDEE and I took 4 months to do so. That's only 4 months out of the many years I'm going to be living, and it means that I know what I can eat to maintain my weight right now and also how much to eat to lose weight while eating as much as I can eat. We're not in a race here! You can do it and it's so worth it.
  • kmac1196
    kmac1196 Posts: 188 Member
    Ok...so I'm back from the cruise. I will weigh in in just a bit (have to use the bathroom and wake up for a little). I'm expecting a 10 lb gain for sure (more maybe).

    In answer to a few questions....I could have gone up slowly but since I was scheduled for this vacation and hadn't taken a diet break in over 2 years, I thought it was best (for ME) to just break. KWIM? My family needed me to not count or worry....I needed it. I did not work out (forgot my workout clothes and didn't like the gym and had a bad case of body dysmorphia on the cruise). Anyway....That's why I did it that way. I did eat fruits and veggies and good healthy things too.

    Now that I"m back, I've put my armband back on and am back to tracking and counting (need to go to the store...I'm out of everything!).

    Plan is to hit 2400 cals for a full month and look at the data. I will be posting it here (unless I should post it somewhere else) for experiment purposes. Feel free to add comments, advice, suggestions, and criticism here. Although, be gentle with the criticism....I'm sensitive ;)
  • mymodernbabylon
    mymodernbabylon Posts: 1,038 Member
    Sounds good to me. Have you checked out the website? There's a place where we post journals and it's great for getting support and just reading other people's good times and bad. Here's the link to mine (I have a different name) and then you can check out others or decide to post one yourself: http://forums.eatmore2weighless.com/showthread.php?tid=11798
  • kmac1196
    kmac1196 Posts: 188 Member
    I'll check it out.

    Post cruise weigh in.

    189.2

    +10 lbs.

    Now onto 2400 for a month (?) and see what weight is.

    And thanks I'll check those out!
  • kmac1196
    kmac1196 Posts: 188 Member
    Sounds good to me. Have you checked out the website? There's a place where we post journals and it's great for getting support and just reading other people's good times and bad. Here's the link to mine (I have a different name) and then you can check out others or decide to post one yourself: http://forums.eatmore2weighless.com/showthread.php?tid=11798


    Awesome thread you have there. So much greatness!!! You are very brave and I will be following you.
  • kmac1196
    kmac1196 Posts: 188 Member
    Started a thread over there! Thanks!!!
  • kmac1196
    kmac1196 Posts: 188 Member
    edited February 2015
    Okay so I belong to BB.com and post and read often over there. And one of the veteran's commended this post as accurate.....thoughts? I'm super nervous eating this much.

    I am no expert, but our stats are the same (well, were the same when I started my cut this January ) I am 5'4, was 147-149 on Jan 3rd and I am 135.8. This is my second cut, last one was hard because I just got stuck on 137 and the scale would not move. So this is what I have learned from all of this:

    - we really do tend to overestimate our activity and underestimate how much we eat. I got Bodymedia and according to it, I was burning ~2400 every day (I have an office job and sit on my behind all day ). So I could not understand why in the world am I not losing on 1700 cals? Well, came to find out that body media can be off by 15-20% or so. So better to follow the nutritional sticky on this board, minus 15-20% of that and start there (also, I love this ITFYM calculator, I actually use it now and according to it 1550-1600 is where I should be for a cut - http://iifym.com/iifym-calculator/)

    - I was using digital scale for SOME foods, but not all. For example, I was not weighing in vegetables and fruits - I mean, how many calories can there be in lettuce, tomato, banana, etc. Well, many, apparently. This cut I am measuring EVERYTHING - I came to find out that I was off, like way off. I was actually eating at maintenance! Measuring cups - big mistake. They are also off - liquids including. When all of that added up, I was off by ~250-300 calories! So everything goes on digital scale now.

    - I used to have re-feed days during first cut. Not this time. I do 1600 cals every day, about 1g of protein per lbs and the rest carbs and fats. I don't ever go low carb because with lower calories I am already more tired and we need energy to function. There is absolutely no reason why we should go low carb on a diet, IMXO. I eat plenty of carbs and fats (as long as protein req is met). Once a week (sometimes twice), I eat stuff that I like - piece of pizza, my kids bday cake, ice cream, whatever. That day I just don't have my usual protein shake, or that piece of fish. Basically try to not go over 1600 cals and if I do, only by a bit. Also, nothing is off limits. As long as it fits my macros, I am going to have it. For example, I add whipped cream to my strawberry-banana shake every day

    - I do very little cardio this cut - twice a week, 20-30 min, that's it. Cardio makes me tired and hungry and like everyone says here, it is not necessary for weight loss. I don't know how to explain it other then, I feel 'balanced', I never feel hungry or super tired. And if I do, I take a day off from the gym and chill. More is not better

    - Last cut I worked out like a maniac, sometimes waking up at 4:30 am to do cardio! I noticed while wearing Bodymedia that I burn less calories when I sleep less. So this cut I am watching my sleep. I rather rest and get my sleep, then have no sleep and workout. Rest is important!

    I am steadily losing this time (~11.5 lbs so far). HTH



    That's what she said and then a vet over there (moderator, personal trainer, competitor) agreed with it all and says that we over estimate our burn. Which really is the opposite of every one here.

    I read a lot. Mostly follow works like Alan Aragon and Brad Schoenfeld . Science.

    Anyone want to point me in the direction of literature supporting EM2WL?

    Kristen
  • kmac1196
    kmac1196 Posts: 188 Member
    And this link here.....

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=158126503

    So confused.
  • mymodernbabylon
    mymodernbabylon Posts: 1,038 Member
    Read everything on the board - look at the success stories. It works. I'm losing weight. I'm not doing mad amounts of cardio, I'm not underestimating my food because I weight it all (or measure liquids) when I can. The typical dieter does overestimate theit 'burn' and underestimate their food intake, but most of us on here aren't typical dieters, so I don't agree that you have to undereat to make up for this. The TDEE method works for us. I don't even care what my burn is as I KNOW what my TDEE is from actually eating calories and seeing if I gain or lose weight!!!
  • Jennbecca33
    Jennbecca33 Posts: 321 Member
    One of the problematic things with reading so much - not that reading is bad - but it really can cause you to overthink things and we will tend to compare ourselves with others and think that we should be having the same success as someone else. The best way to approach this is to just try it out for yourself and adjust your numbers as you get into it and see how your body responds. Like Modern said, there are tons of articles, blogs, and success stories on the website - you don't have to look far to find them. I didn't read all the way back through this post to remember all of your history, but I do remember you are wanting to do a reset. Both of these scenarios you listed above are not anything like a reset - so obviously you'll be eating a lot more than someone who is not doing a reset. The first scenario is someone who weighs 135 and does very minimal exercise 20 minutes 2x a week and eats 1600 calories - this is probably right on for this person and her activity level! In the second scenario, the person is clearly under eating at 1200 cals and has slowed her metabolism - she will soon crash.

    My point is, figure your numbers for your stats and your activity level. Be honest with your activity level. Once you have your TDEE calculated for your true activity level, you can eat up to that amount or decide if you just want to start out with 15% deficit. You can increase as slow as you want - you don't have to eat 2400 all at one time - just ease into and see how you feel. Your results won't be like others who have similar stats - because you're different and have a different activity level. As long as you are weighing and measuring your foods, you won't be underestimating. The people that underestimate are those that are not accurately recording foods.
  • Jennbecca33
    Jennbecca33 Posts: 321 Member
    One more thing...have you calculated your TDEE using the Scooby site to see if it lines up with what your BodyMedia is telling you? I think I mentioned before, my BMF did overestimate my calorie burn and I don't wear it anymore for that reason. For most, they are pretty accurate, but I have seen where they did not work well for some. Keeping this in mind, you can use Scooby to calculate as well and see if the numbers are similar. BMF is really good at measuring your daily activity (NEAT) - something we all tend to underestimate as it is outside of formal exercise and we just aren't always sure how to count it. But at minimum, I would go with the numbers Scooby gives you as your TDEE and 15% deficit and work upwards to those calories goals slowly.
  • kmac1196
    kmac1196 Posts: 188 Member
    Scooby s said 1945 for me.

    Alan Aragon's calculator says 1750.

    Thanks for all of the replies.

    I don't really need to add them slowly since I too an 11 day diet break (cruise) and ate above maintenance and gained 10 lbs. so I was continuing my cut.

    I am reading stories here. And there and there so many mixed messages amoung even professionals. Kwim?

    I was up .2 lbs this morning from the day before. Which never happens after I get back on my program. I always have a big drop overnight (2-3lbs). So why the increase? Hence my panicking.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    BodyMedia is not all it's hyped up to be for about half the users. The sensors don't work well. And for non-step based stuff like lifting, those extra sensors don't do squat.

    To see if the sensor's work well for you, look at your daily graph where it shows calories burned per minutes, not METS, calories.

    Find average for sleeping time. Like if it bounces between 1.1 and 1.2 evenly, you know it's trying to show 1.15.
    1.15 x 1440 = 1656 BMR it's using for example.

    Now find some movie time with sitting not moving, but awake.
    What is the average calorie burn time per minute there?
    Do the same math, should be higher by decent amount.

    Those comments about over estimating burns and underestimating eaten - those are based on what perspective?
    Several studies have indeed shown that in free form logging - logging at end of day, or when you remember, estimating quantities, ect - does indeed result in under-estimating.
    Is MFP going to help with that?

    I'd love to see their research that people overestimate what is burned, and by how much.
    I'm not shocked how many get a Fitbit and first day had no idea they burned calories sleeping. Their only awareness of calorie levels is eating or seeing advice to eat 1200 to lose weight.
    With no concept of what was eaten by themselves to gain weight. No idea at all of calorie levels.

    I do know that almost everyone but maybe 3 people that have used that IIFYM's to see estimated daily burn have found it badly underestimates their daily burn based on actual results, here on MFP when I've seen ones comment. And results trump estimates.

    As to the research that eating at a reasonable deficit is better than an extreme deficit.
    All you have to do is start reading the start of any study on weight loss, and it seems no matter what aspect they are specifically researching, they comment out of hand regarding the fact of adaptive thermogenesis is going to happen, or to explain why it seems it didn't in unusual cases.

    Here's comments on a bunch of studies. The one that shows no slowdown, they figured as commented above - the poor food logging meant they didn't have as much deficit as they were supposed to have - basically saving themselves.

    http://fampra.oxfordjournals.org/content/16/2/196.full

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i_cmltmQ6A

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/heybales/view/reduced-metabolism-tdee-beyond-expected-from-weight-loss-616251

    Oh, your panic on weight gain of a mere 0.2 lbs, which I'm betting is actually within the inaccuracy limits of the scale anyway.
    Be prepared for mental and emotional trouble if that panics you. Just realistic warning.

    Was today a valid weigh-in day? If you want to weigh every day and they aren't valid, then you'll need 2 months worth of all that noisy data to actually get a trend line to try to figure something out.

    Use only valid days, and as a woman, 4 weeks will be good enough.

    Valid weigh-in day to minimize known expected water fluctuations.
    Morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout.

    And always do the math for any fast changes to prove to yourself they are merely water weight, can't be fat.

    LBs of change x 3500 / days of change = difference between eating level and TDEE to cause that change.

    So it would take eating 250 calories OVER maintenance or true potential TDEE to slowly gain 1 whole pound. And if good lifting routine, not even all fat.
    Reread that to appreciate that fact.
  • kmac1196
    kmac1196 Posts: 188 Member
    Thank you for your reply and info.

    According to my BMF data...I burn between 1.0 and 1.3 while sleeping and 1.1 and 1.2 while sitting watching tv at night....So does that mean the sensors are off?

    And according to IIFYM my BMR is 1491 and my TDEE is 2050.

    I do weigh daily and have for 2 1/2 years....it was a way to desensitize my fluctuations and understand them better...which is why I know that the 10 lbs I gained during my cruise isn't real. I also know that I should have dropped at least 2 of those since I had 2 full days of deficit under my belt. I'm not going by others...I'm going by my own data that I've gathered. I'm not upset about the .2 lbs But my past history shows that I'm not losing the water weight from the cruise. Why would that be? I only really look at my weekly Tues weigh ins (though Weds is my lowest day). And I am post TOM so should be have flushed out all fluids by now.

    Also, lifting.....I've been following ICF 5x5 (I've switched a few times over the 2+years but come back to this) the whole time. I've exhausted any newbie gains I may have had (though I doubt much since I've been lifting for 18 years). I've not been in a calorie surplus so I'm not gaining muscle....just trying to retain what I have. I suppose recomping could be happening.

    So, I have all these numbers...from all of these professionals. And my own data. And advice from everywhere. And in the end....I can only just pick one and try it out.

    I'm not looking for fast and furious. It's taken me 2 1/2 years to lose 75 lbs. I've changed my whole life. I'm in this for life. I don't do anything I can't do for the rest of my life so I'm not trying to speed it up. Just looking to find a consistent pattern and consistent calorie level that won't kill me. I've yet to be able to find that.

    I talk to men who lift weights (low end of bf levels...trying for single digits) that are eating 1500 cals a day and need to cut more or add cardio. I know I'm not that and I can't compare to that but in my head they are all screaming....the scale would move if you're in a true deficit.

    And reading this

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/another-look-at-metabolic-damage.html/

    And this

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1wIlDVO9w4

    The beginning is most pertinent here but the whole Q&A is interesting.

  • mymodernbabylon
    mymodernbabylon Posts: 1,038 Member
    If EM2WL doesn't feel right (TDEE-15%), then don't follow it. It appears you are trying to find information which fits with the low cal dieting that much of the industry sells and sells and sells. I have done that in the past and I regained my weight over and over. I'm now doing this and I'm happy. I eat a lot more than a lot of people and still lose weight. And I know how to eat at maintenance because I was there for a while and it's something I can do for life.

    And I'm doing a cut at 1925 (and had luck previously with a cut at 2150 - but I'm working out less now), a female friend is doing a cut at 3000 calories, and you can find all the information you want to fit with your own mindset. Seriously, I would figure out what you want to do and just try it out.
  • kmac1196
    kmac1196 Posts: 188 Member
    I'm really not trying to find info on one over the other. Just info.

    I appreciate all of the feedback that I've gotten. I don't think hearing different opinions is harmful and I'm sorry if I've offended you or anyone else. I'm also not saying this won't work. I'm just trying to dig through opinions to get to studies/facts /data.
  • kmac1196
    kmac1196 Posts: 188 Member
    And FYI I hit 2000 cals yesterday and had a 2 lb drop overnight.

    I am not trying to be difficult. Just fact finding.
  • butterbear1980
    butterbear1980 Posts: 234 Member
    Last winter my tdee was 2030/day after a 12 week reset last summer a three month cut in the fall a 3 month bulk my tdee is 2800/day. Which means I'll be cutting this spring at 2500...500 more than my cut calories last year. If you are in the right head space em2wl really works!
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