Fat vs Protein tip on FB group, is this right? wth.
MrsNonsense
Posts: 55 Member
I'm part of a few keto groups on facebook, and today I saw a post of a person asking for advice on how to start. Someone gave her a sheet saying she had to eat 165g protein and 60ishg fat a day, and about 1100 cals a day.
All I've been reading since day one was Low carb, med protein, high fat, so I checked their "start here" files and I found this:
"Fat - fat can come from either the plate or the body. And the amount from each is going to depend on if you are in weight loss or maintenance. In weight loss you want to keep fat equal or lower then protein, but not lower than 30g a day. Once in maintenance you raise the amount of fats you are eating until you stop losing weight, keeping carbs low and protein the same."
So my question is, have I been doing it all wrong?
(trying to lose weight).
All I've been reading since day one was Low carb, med protein, high fat, so I checked their "start here" files and I found this:
"Fat - fat can come from either the plate or the body. And the amount from each is going to depend on if you are in weight loss or maintenance. In weight loss you want to keep fat equal or lower then protein, but not lower than 30g a day. Once in maintenance you raise the amount of fats you are eating until you stop losing weight, keeping carbs low and protein the same."
So my question is, have I been doing it all wrong?
(trying to lose weight).
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Replies
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MrsNonsense, some people are determined to make this way harder than it actually is. You're not wrong. There's no need to try and limit your fats to that sort of extreme degree. There's also no need to limit total calories that low.
Ignore the people with random, usually difficult to follow, ideas about how this works. Trust the people who have done it long term.0 -
Hers sounds backwards. Mine is 150g FAT and 63 grams protein. Having fat lower than protein sounds opposite of pretty much everything I've read.0
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I was surprised because the group has 11k members and they give that information for all the new people.0
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There is a contingent that feels part of the "high fat" way of eating includes the body fat you're supposed to be burning.
Their way of thinking then, as I understand it, is that your percentage of fat in your diet should be lower, because you're making up for it by burning body fat.
Personally, the way they end up doing it makes no sense to me, because if you're already eating at a deficit, and your protein and carbs are set gram amounts (ie - 20g carbs and 1g/lb LBM protein), then you're already "accounting" for that body fat usage, because once you go to maintenance, you'd keep protein and carbs constant, and increase your fat intake to increase your calories. In that aspect, they're more or less correct, because 20g carbs and 100g protein is going to be a higher percentage of your dietary intake when you're only eating 1500 calories vs when you're eating 2000. Where it stops making sense to me is that the percentages they use far exceed this math, and you end up with either way too much of a deficit or way more protein than you really need.
The problem I have with this is that your body is going to burn roughly X amount of calories (let's say 2000), regardless of how much you eat (long term metabolism effects ignored for the moment, for the sake of the explanation). If you only eat 1500 calories, then the remaining 500 is going to come from some combination of glycogen, amino acids, and fat. The caloric deficit, then, already builds in this idea that X amount of fat is coming from your body.
It clearly works for some people, since there is quite a large following, and I know there are at least a few who follow it on here. I'm of the opinion that it's overthinking it, but more power to those for whom it makes sense and works.0 -
I assume it is one of the Optimal Ketogenic Living groups? I was on one then dropped it, they were a bit too dogmatic. I believe they have somehow translated the appropriate protein range for nutritional ketosis to be on the high end of protein for everyone. I don't agree, I think there is a range for a reason. Some people need more protein, some need less. I do agree, however, that during weight loss a percentage of the fat our body "sees" comes from body fat, not just dietary fat. So the fat percentage in our diet doesn't necessarily need to be 80% during weight loss, for example, but that may be what our body is using.0
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@mistizoom The group is called "Ketogenic Dieters" and it currently has 11,552 members.
They're part of "the keto admin council", whatever that is. I'm new to the group, so no idea.0 -
Actually, I was eating more protein and not enough fat and stalled for weeks. Advise the new member to find their own macros try this one keto-calculator.ankerl.com/0
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MrsNonsense wrote: »@mistizoom The group is called "Ketogenic Dieters" and it currently has 11,552 members.
They're part of "the keto admin council", whatever that is. I'm new to the group, so no idea.
It sounds very authoritative, but the "keto admin council" means nothing to me.0 -
Since you're already a member of the FB group, and they are giving questionable advice ... maybe you could recommend ndj1979 from the main forums to join?
going to sit in the corner ..---->0 -
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I joined the group to see what's up. They quote Phinney and Volek, and give the right ranges of protein, but do say everyone should eat at the "mid to high end" of the protein range. I haven't yet found where they say why this is necessary. Yes, some people should eat on the higher end, but for some people the lower end if fine and/or necessary. They also promote lower dietary fat during weight loss (which I am ok with if you are satisfied that way) and recommend only 1235 calories for a 5'5" woman (that's how tall I am so those are the ranges I checked). I'lll continue to eat my 1400 calories/day, thank you very much, until it no longer works for me. So the group is a bit more dogmatic, I think, than I prefer for a group. But it doesn't seem horrible at first glance.
Oh, and apparently the keto admin council has the power to kick you off multiple Keto facebook groups if you somehow spam/advertise or commit so other grievous offense.0 -
lol, I unjoined every keto and most other low-carb groups on FB months ago. So much drama. And 90% of the time, they're worried about minutia (like macros and calories) while ignoring the things I think are major confounders (mostly faux foods).0
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This!Actually, I was eating more protein and not enough fat and stalled for weeks. Advise the new member to find their own macros try this one keto-calculator.ankerl.com/
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Actually, I was eating more protein and not enough fat and stalled for weeks. Advise the new member to find their own macros try this one keto-calculator.ankerl.com/
I love the Ankerl keto calculator and I have used that one for my calculations -- it's very flexible. But on the facebook group listed above, you are not allowed to link to or tell anyone about keto calculators. You must reference the charts posted in the group for protein and calories. They say all the calculators are for maintenance levels of fat (um, no, Ankerl let's you enter any amount of fat as long as it is at least 35 g/day). Yea, not my kind of group.0 -
This is what I read today:
"We do not advise people to do high dietary fat above their protein in weight loss phases, and as stated above it takes time to adapt to any macro changes.
High dietary fat in the absence of adequate protein will not help you lose body fat."
So one member mentioned that high fat med protein works for the people in the diabetes club, that also does keto "our way", the person quoted above said: "They lose lean body mass and therefore, 'weight'... but again, it is not what we advise *here* and it *is* different."
Thoughts on this last statement?0 -
MrsNonsense wrote: »This is what I read today:
"We do not advise people to do high dietary fat above their protein in weight loss phases, and as stated above it takes time to adapt to any macro changes.
High dietary fat in the absence of adequate protein will not help you lose body fat."
So one member mentioned that high fat med protein works for the people in the diabetes club, that also does keto "our way", the person quoted above said: "They lose lean body mass and therefore, 'weight'... but again, it is not what we advise *here* and it *is* different."
Thoughts on this last statement?
Dr. Peter Attia (as well as numerous PubMed studies) begs to differ -- http://eatingacademy.com/how-i-lost-weight
In other words -- as long as you're eating adequate protein (which is what most people on keto do), you won't lose much (if any, if you also include strength training) lean mass.0 -
Sound like a bunch of nazi's on a power trip to me.0
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I was a member of this one and a couple of others. There is a lot of power tripping going on in most of them. I unjoined most. Getting ready to unjoin another.0
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