Food boredom is my brain trying to convince my body that it needs donuts.... For you I would ask do you count total carbs or net carbs? Yesterday my net carbs was 11 ... My total carbs was 38. Maybe try total carbs would be a better bet.

I saw a blog post one time, about a woman who experimented with a pretty much zero carb diet for health reasons. She was having all kinds of health issues before she started it. She found that she got better on a diet of soured raw milk and raw beef, but she also found that she was basically apathetic. So, she increased her carb intake (with glucose, of all things, but that seemed to matter for her), and the apathy went away.

It's a pretty good (and short) read -- http://theprimalparent.com/2011/07/27/the-carnivores-dilemma-a-diet-of-just-meats-and-fats/

Everyone's got to figure out what works for them. It sounds like your issue was a lot more mental and you may have been going down a path of disordered eating ("basically started avoiding carbs so much..."), so it's good you recognized that that setup doesn't work for you. (I would contend that such a way of eating doesn't have to be boring, since you can add all kinds of fatty sauces and spices and play with different cuts and preparations, but none of that matters if your mental state is starting to become disordered.)

There does seem to be a bit of a sentiment lately that you aren't doing "real" keto unless your carbs are 20 g or under, but that's not what Phinney and Volek say is necessary for most people.

I've also noticed an influx of "I was doing 40g of carbs before, but now I'm doing 15-20g to get into ketosis." I'm just like, "uh...what? Did I miss the memo that 20-50g isn't still keto?"

Eggs and butter, or some bacon/deli meat and a piece of cheese for lunch. And for dinner I was usually just having a meat, maybe with some cheese. I didnt even bother with a veggie most the time.

That's actually largely what I do, except I found that two meals make things so much easier. Then sometimes, I'll basically binge on broccoli or salad (I kid you not -- I'll polish off one of those four-serving bags of frozen broccoli, or a large salad with a bunch of veggies and some meat that's supposed to serve at least two, on my own). The cyclical thing seems to work for me.

Watch the deli meat as it can have sugar added and cheese is the tie that binds.

I just finished a salad of Romaine, (2 cups) diced chicken from the roaster I buy , two tbs. of Cedars Tabouli salad and a quarter avacado. Topped the delicious mess with 3 tbs of Maries Chunky blue cheese dressing. Great second act to 4 pieces of nitrite free bacon and coffee avec cream.

Salad can be very inventive and imaginative and making homemade dressings rich and carb free.
Try Cobb Salad with your leftover ( as if ) bacon.

Me? best to be under 20 carbs in order to get this train to the station.

I believe I've had luck staying in ketosis at the 30-40 range, the weight is still coming off at least! I'm with you, 20 a day is just not sustainable for me personally, I like food too much and really enjoy eating it. At 20 it was just a tedious chore.

Excellent responses! No, there are no "keto points" or a trophy for who can live on fewest carbs. It's all about personal health and sustainability.

LunaKate, if 30-40g makes you happy, that is awesome. I've done that level. It DOES provide more variety. That is where I'd like to eventually settle myself at maintenance except maybe do 50g net as a ceiling, but I do actually do a little better weightloss-wise at 20 or less.

Life is a BIG n=1. Nothing wrong with finding your perfect formula.

I was just about to post on this very topic!

So, in the beginning I ate about 20-25g carbs/day since Jan. 2nd, 2015. I lost about 24lb. since then. However, I have been having insomnia (a lot- have to take ambien), and in the last 10 days got hit with crazy fatigue- like crazy exhaustion. When I do sleep, I am not refreshed- the fatigue hits about three hours after waking up. I supplement sodium, magnesium, potassium, multi-Bs, vitamin D, fish oil. My weight loss also stalled in the last month- thinking it is from lack of sleep- the whole cortisol thing?

I have read that people can get adrenal fatigue on this WOE- or at least expose an underlying hormonal disorder like hypothyroid etc. Not sure if this is a legit thing. I also read that a ketogenic diet may not be good for people with pre-existing mood disorders (I have had depression and anxiety over the years). I am thinking that it was too low carb and I stopped making enough serotonin (from too low carbs) to keep my brain working right, and the fatigue and body aches could be depression . My mood is OK, but I am physically exhausted.

I have since (two days ago) added two slices of whole wheat bread/day (adding 32g carb/day). I will be seeing my doctor tomorrow to try and figure this out. I do not want to quit, but something has to give. Hopefully I wont gain a bunch of weight and I can find the sweet spot and continue to lose at least a pound every two weeks. Heck, 1lb a month is fine as long as I can keep the weight off and feel better.

Interested in your opinions. What tests should I ask the doctor about? I am hoping that I can still lose weight on 60- 100g carbs/day. If she tells me to go off the diet completely I will be really upset.

-Dawlfin

wabmester wrote: »

dawlfin, good article for you here:
http://chriskresser.com/ask-the-rd-adrenal-fatigue-2

FWIW, it sounds like you're doing the right thing -- raise your carbs to 50-100g/d.

Thanks Wab. I will check it out.

-Dawlfin

Protein way too high? This does not compute.

{had approx. 256g of protein yesterday... wonder if that counts. Nah... it would need to be higher than that}

Edit: And I've graduated out of keto. Been there, done that. I think keto is fine. Some people do well on it. Do I think it's necessarily the "right" way to low carb? No. Do I think it's a "higher level" of low carb? Nope. It's just one approach to it.

I think the first study I ever looked at wrt LCHF showed increased cortisol levels with LCHF vs a more moderate low-carb diet at the same level of calories. Increasing calories should help, but so should increasing carbs.

SnowFlinga wrote: »

Do you actually track your blood ketone level? Probably not. The "low carb'ing" that you believe to be effective is actually getting undermined by excessive levels of protein. If your true goal is to lose weight (a lot of weight) then over-eating protein sabotages any LC diet.

Not necessarily: http://www.ketotic.org/2012/08/if-you-eat-excess-protein-does-it-turn.html

http://caloriesproper.com/dietary-protein-ketosis-and-appetite-control/

This is also a very good review of the actual science regarding ketones and protein. None of it deals with levels like I have experienced. But, I did repeatedly test 0.7 and higher eating 150+g daily. And even that high at over 200g spread over a day. I think the point about reduced level of ketosis likely coming more from increased calories is valid. But, the studies still show that carb restriction is the most important.

wabmester wrote: »

I wasn't going to mention it, but since you brought up his blog -- his latest blog post also pertains to this thread:
http://caloriesproper.com/carbs-low-vs-lower/

.... what about low carb vs. lower carb?

Apparently, it doesn’t matter

LOL, I say this all the time when people think going to zero-carb is going to make some massive difference in their results. I think consistency and patience is the most important. And, some people do just fine on non-keto levels of carbs.

Thanks for pointing this out. People should know that "keto" is not necessarily more advanced or better than "non-keto."

JPW1990 wrote: »

For me, it's entirely about hunger signals. On keto, I never get hungry. When I go up to 60, I get hunger back.

That's where it boils down to finding the amount that works for you.

baconslave wrote: »

Excellent responses! No, there are no "keto points" or a trophy for who can live on fewest carbs. It's all about personal health and sustainability.

LunaKate, if 30-40g makes you happy, that is awesome. I've done that level. It DOES provide more variety. That is where I'd like to eventually settle myself at maintenance except maybe do 50g net as a ceiling, but I do actually do a little better weightloss-wise at 20 or less.

Life is a BIG n=1. Nothing wrong with finding your perfect formula.

I don't win a trophy for staying under 10g a day? Pfft, what's the point?

I find myself eating the same things most days. A typical day will go like this:

Coffee with butter/coconut oil for breakfast.
100g ham and little tub of cream cheese, with a cup of broth and butter for second breakfast.
4 boiled eggs and a tblspn of mayo for lunch.
A cheese stick and a coffee with butter for second lunch.
Meat of some sort for dinner, eg: a steak with bacon and mushrooms on top or a single serve meatloaf (wrapped in bacon of course).
Another coffee and perhaps a bag of pork rinds in the evening (25g packet).

Sometimes I'll mix it up and add some avocado, or some frozen broccoli, or mix some cucumber into the lunch eggs and mayo - but this is pretty much it. It's sustainable, it doesn't require alot of thought, it fits in to my lifestyle (I take the morning coffee and broth in travel mugs to work). I ate this way for about 8 months last year and was in my comfort zone. Things only went bad when Xmas happened, and it was at our house, and I made carby food so good I couldn't resist. Turned into a 3 month binge. Oh well, I'm back, and feeling so much better for it.