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Is high fat dangerous for the heart?
Jennym93
Posts: 136 Member
I know I've posted about my 'fat fear' before and this seems like a repeat but hear me out please 
I'm having trouble getting my parents to understand my low carb high fat diet specifically because they believe that the amount of fat I'm eating is going to damage my heart, I have aortic valve regurgitation so they are more wary than if I was completely healthy.
I've seen some of the links in the launch pad and seen a documentary or two on here but I know they wouldn't even sit through them let alone take any information from it so are there any studies that back up the idea that consuming fat is a serious health risk heart wise or that it's perfectly fine when consuming healthy fats? so even if I can't get them to listen I can be armed with the information myself, I've looked online but I feel like everyone on here might be a bit better educated on this than myself and understand the studies better
I'm having trouble getting my parents to understand my low carb high fat diet specifically because they believe that the amount of fat I'm eating is going to damage my heart, I have aortic valve regurgitation so they are more wary than if I was completely healthy.
I've seen some of the links in the launch pad and seen a documentary or two on here but I know they wouldn't even sit through them let alone take any information from it so are there any studies that back up the idea that consuming fat is a serious health risk heart wise or that it's perfectly fine when consuming healthy fats? so even if I can't get them to listen I can be armed with the information myself, I've looked online but I feel like everyone on here might be a bit better educated on this than myself and understand the studies better
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The FDA just recently revised their recommendations surrounding fat, cholesterol, sodium. You might want to visit their website and do some hunting there. My mom immediately de-stressed when the new ideas came out.0
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There have been MANY studies. None of the results, AFAIK, have been very definitive. That's at least partly because we're all different. Some people can probably be harmed by a high fat diet. Some people can definitely be harmed by a diet of excess carbs.
Get your lipid profile before your diet. Get another one after a couple months on the diet. Your own test results will tell you more about your risk than a study using people who aren't you.
For a lot of people, LDL will go up on a LCHF diet. What usually happens is that the type of LDL changes -- it goes from small and dense on high carb to big and fluffy on low carb. The big and fluffy is less atherogenic. What matters more than the LDL concentration is the LDL particle count. Some people get an increased particle count on a high fat diet, and that would increase the risk of heart disease.0 -
There have been MANY studies. None of the results, AFAIK, have been very definitive. That's at least partly because we're all different. Some people can probably be harmed by a high fat diet. Some people can definitely be harmed by a diet of excess carbs.
Get your lipid profile before your diet. Get another one after a couple months on the diet. Your own test results will tell you more about your risk than a study using people who aren't you.
For a lot of people, LDL will go up on a LCHF diet. What usually happens is that the type of LDL changes -- it goes from small and dense on high carb to big and fluffy on low carb. The big and fluffy is less atherogenic. What matters more than the LDL concentration is the LDL particle count. Some people get an increased particle count on a high fat diet, and that would increase the risk of heart disease.
Ah perfect I have a doctors app. on monday so I can ask then
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If you have known heart issues, ideally your doc is already ordering one of the more advanced lipid panel tests, but it couldn't hurt to ask. The standard cheap one is pretty worthless. Ask about a VAP or NMR lipid panel. Both will give you a lot of interesting information.0
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Ok so since I know so little about cholesterol and the tests I've looked it up and it says that the blood test measures
Total cholesterol.
LDL (low density lipoprotein cholesterol).
HDL (high density lipoprotein cholesterol)
&
Triglycerides
(if it's helpful here's the link http://www.webmd.boots.com/cholesterol-management/guide/cholesterol-numbers)
So should I specify that I'd like to have it checked to find out the individual measurements for all of the above? Would it be best to explain my diet too so she knows why I want to test it?
I don't recall ever being told about my cholesterol before so it would be really good to know, is anyone else UK based and requested a test before?
I also will be asking about whether I have been tested for insulin resistance as I don't believe I have and that's another reason to go low carb
Sorry if all these questions sound really stupid I just want to be absolutely clear before I go in0 -
It's a standard test in the US, at least when you get older. They'll ask you to fast for 12 hours before the test. They all cover the basics you've listed. The VAP will break things down to their component levels, and the NMR adds LDL particle count.
They rarely test directly for insulin resistance, but you can tell pretty well by your fasting blood sugar and your triglyceride level.
Edit: VAP may be proprietary to US labs -- I think they use gel electrophoresis to separate the components. Telling your doc that you want to experiment with a diet would probably help. My doc was very willing to follow-up on my "lifestyle modification" program.0 -
It's a standard test in the US, at least when you get older. They'll ask you to fast for 12 hours before the test. They all cover the basics you've listed. The VAP will break things down to their component levels, and the NMR adds LDL particle count.
They rarely test directly for insulin resistance, but you can tell pretty well by your fasting blood sugar and your triglyceride level.
Thank you, I will definitely ask on monday about both, even if they can't test for insulin resistance I might be able to get an idea of how likely it is, hopefully0 -
The lipoprotein NMR is the one that i get, insurance covers it the same as the standard cholesterol test for me, so that's just the standard thing I get now 2-3 times a year.0
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If the doctor gives you the OK to go LC and isn't concerned for your health I might fib to your parents (since they won't believe the doctor anyway).
Tell them the doc thinks you might be pre-diabetic and he agrees that eating LC would be a good test to see if your numbers reverse. Then in a few months when they have been on board, go back to the doc and "hey look at that, your numbers are great"0 -
It's a standard test in the US, at least when you get older. They'll ask you to fast for 12 hours before the test. They all cover the basics you've listed. The VAP will break things down to their component levels, and the NMR adds LDL particle count.
They rarely test directly for insulin resistance, but you can tell pretty well by your fasting blood sugar and your triglyceride level.
Thank you, I will definitely ask on monday about both, even if they can't test for insulin resistance I might be able to get an idea of how likely it is, hopefully
o.O
I get a fasted insulin test every 3 months to check my insulin resistance. My A1C and glucose levels are spot on perfect, fasting or not so they'd be of NO use for IR tests. But the fasting insulin tests is how they test of insulin resistance here especially because there are quite a few of us who have no blood sugar/glucose side effect of high insulin.0 -
I get a fasted insulin test every 3 months to check my insulin resistance. My A1C and glucose levels are spot on perfect, fasting or not so they'd be of NO use for IR tests. But the fasting insulin tests is how they test of insulin resistance here especially because there are quite a few of us who have no blood sugar/glucose side effect of high insulin.
Do you know your fasting triglyceride level? There seems to be a pretty good correlation with fasting triglycerides and IR, but it's not perfect (and seems to be race dependent too).
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I get a fasted insulin test every 3 months to check my insulin resistance. My A1C and glucose levels are spot on perfect, fasting or not so they'd be of NO use for IR tests. But the fasting insulin tests is how they test of insulin resistance here especially because there are quite a few of us who have no blood sugar/glucose side effect of high insulin.
Do you know your fasting triglyceride level? There seems to be a pretty good correlation with fasting triglycerides and IR, but it's not perfect (and seems to be race dependent too).
Id have to go dig out my last blood test, but they are bairly above normal even when my fasting insulin was over 45 and the test 'normal' range was 5-20.
But again, because my IR comes from my PCOS/hormone craziness and not a diabetic or pre-diabetic issue, maybe the numbers are different? But I know they test my A1C every 3 months along with my fasting glucose and my fasting insulin and my glucose and A1C has always been dead set middle of normal but my insulin will be crazy high, or was before I started Metformin.
So while the triglycerides and glucose or blood sugar tests might give a fuller picture, I'd still strongly recommend a fasting insulin test to see if you insulin is high even if the rest of your numbers are normal or near normal.0 -
I get a fasted insulin test every 3 months to check my insulin resistance. My A1C and glucose levels are spot on perfect, fasting or not so they'd be of NO use for IR tests. But the fasting insulin tests is how they test of insulin resistance here especially because there are quite a few of us who have no blood sugar/glucose side effect of high insulin.
Do you know your fasting triglyceride level? There seems to be a pretty good correlation with fasting triglycerides and IR, but it's not perfect (and seems to be race dependent too).
When PCOS enters the equation, all bets are off.
My fasting insulin was, as of a month or two ago, 33. My triglycerides were about 80.0 -
I would love to understand how that works. We know IR can selectively affect different tissues, but if somebody has normal blood sugar, that implies that muscles are not IR. If you have normal TG, that implies that adipose and liver are OK.
Anyway, Korean woman with PCOS seem to correlate with TG a bit:
http://www.eymj.org/DOIx.php?id=10.3349/ymj.2015.56.3.7850 -
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If you have normal TG, that implies that adipose and liver are OK.
Taubes tells me I might be wrong. If you have IR, your insulin levels are high. If your liver is normal and other tissues are IR, then the liver will over-secrete TG based on the insulin signal.
So, that seems to imply that if your TG is normal and your insulin is high, then your liver is IR?
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Thanks, I've seen it and there's no way my parents would even sit through it.
But I will watch it again myself 0 -
Hi Jenny---Some of my family members have had big doubts and strong cautions about my following this way of eating. I was kind of nervous, too. Until I compared blood work from a couple of days ago with some that was taken in January before I started LCHF eating. The first numbers are from Jan, the second from Thursday. All are measured in mg/dl. As you can see, my body is responding well to this WOE. The really concerned relative doesn't quite know what to say....
Estimate Average Glucose: 128 - 114
Non-HDL: 160 - 116
A1c: 6.1 - 5.6
LDL Calc: 137 - 100
Cholesterol: 214 - 173
Triglycerides: 115 - 79
HDL: 54 - 57
Chol/HDL ratio: 4.0 - 3.0
You can add me as a friend and look at my macros if you want. Hope this helps!0 -
wowwheatlessgirl66 wrote: »Hi Jenny---Some of my family members have had big doubts and strong cautions about my following this way of eating. I was kind of nervous, too. Until I compared blood work from a couple of days ago with some that was taken in January before I started LCHF eating. The first numbers are from Jan, the second from Thursday. All are measured in mg/dl. As you can see, my body is responding well to this WOE. The really concerned relative doesn't quite know what to say....
Estimate Average Glucose: 128 - 114
Non-HDL: 160 - 116
A1c: 6.1 - 5.6
LDL Calc: 137 - 100
Cholesterol: 214 - 173
Triglycerides: 115 - 79
HDL: 54 - 57
Chol/HDL ratio: 4.0 - 3.0
You can add me as a friend and look at my macros if you want. Hope this helps!
The more I read the more I want to stick with low carb, I suppose having tests and showing my parents (and myself) if it really is making a positive difference is the only way to really bring them round, I'm hoping I can get tests done next week and then compare after a month or so of eating as low carb as possible, I just want a long term sustainable way of eating since I know if I lose weight doing something that I just won't stick to or don't enjoy I'll pile it all back on0 -
Congrats, wheatless! Great progress!0
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I would love to understand how that works. We know IR can selectively affect different tissues, but if somebody has normal blood sugar, that implies that muscles are not IR. If you have normal TG, that implies that adipose and liver are OK.
Anyway, Korean woman with PCOS seem to correlate with TG a bit:
http://www.eymj.org/DOIx.php?id=10.3349/ymj.2015.56.3.785
TG correlation with PCOS is largely dependent on a SAD or other higher carb diet. It's part and parcel with our worse lipid levels on that kind of diet.If you have normal TG, that implies that adipose and liver are OK.
Taubes tells me I might be wrong. If you have IR, your insulin levels are high. If your liver is normal and other tissues are IR, then the liver will over-secrete TG based on the insulin signal.
So, that seems to imply that if your TG is normal and your insulin is high, then your liver is IR?
The thing with PCOS is that we're often insulin resistant because of hyperinsulinemia, and we have hyperinsulinemia because one or more of our other hormones are out of whack (where it gets complicated is that it could be just about any of the other hormones) and the body is attempting to balance the ratios. We end up in a sort of "death spiral" from a feedback loop. Diabetes medications, like Metformin, can help, because it breaks that feedback loop by making the liver more insulin sensitive (there is speculation that the Metformin actually takes over the communication channels in the liver), prompting it to stop telling the pancreas to make so much insulin. It doesn't always work, though.0 -
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wheatlessgirl66 wrote: »As you can see, my body is responding well to this WOE. The really concerned relative doesn't quite know what to say....
Oh wow, Wheatless that's absolutely fantastic, congratulations! And it's truly reassuring for those of us who don't have numbers to compare too.
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booked in for a fasting blood glucose test and will get my cholesterol tested at the same time, it's on monday, the doctor said nothing about my low carbing and seemed ok with it and agreed it's best to have an updated, starting point since my last one was 18 months ok but she said it was ok0
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*updated starting point
*18 months ago
Sorry I was rushing0 -
We just blame it on the phones...pesky auto-correct! 0
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Had my blood taken, asking about my insulin level has left me feeling like a huge idiot (they got confused because I'm not diabetic) but they do not test it and instead I got told my hbac1 was 5.3 back in nov 2013 and I'm not insulin resistant based on that.
but I need to watch what I eat since I'm high end of normal.0 -
Had my blood taken, asking about my insulin level has left me feeling like a huge idiot (they got confused because I'm not diabetic) but they do not test it and instead I got told my hbac1 was 5.3 back in nov 2013 and I'm not insulin resistant based on that.
but I need to watch what I eat since I'm high end of normal.
The labs do have a test for it. I encourage you to find a new doctor or find the test number from the lab you go through and ask again. My A1C was 5.5, but my insulin was quite high. My doctor went from "you're fine, there's nothing to do" to "let's get you a referral to an endo" based on the results. Insulin resistance starts as high insulin and normal blood sugar, and LCHF further masks it in the A1C test, because blood sugar levels aren't spiked all the time (but can still be running higher than they should).0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »Had my blood taken, asking about my insulin level has left me feeling like a huge idiot (they got confused because I'm not diabetic) but they do not test it and instead I got told my hbac1 was 5.3 back in nov 2013 and I'm not insulin resistant based on that.
but I need to watch what I eat since I'm high end of normal.
The labs do have a test for it. I encourage you to find a new doctor or find the test number from the lab you go through and ask again. My A1C was 5.5, but my insulin was quite high. My doctor went from "you're fine, there's nothing to do" to "let's get you a referral to an endo" based on the results. Insulin resistance starts as high insulin and normal blood sugar, and LCHF further masks it in the A1C test, because blood sugar levels aren't spiked all the time (but can still be running higher than they should).
I really don't know who to go to any more though. That was a doctor and a nurse telling me they don't test insulin, I might make an appointment with my preferred doctor for the results and explain the situation to her and see what she says
Is it a UK thing or something!?0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »Had my blood taken, asking about my insulin level has left me feeling like a huge idiot (they got confused because I'm not diabetic) but they do not test it and instead I got told my hbac1 was 5.3 back in nov 2013 and I'm not insulin resistant based on that.
but I need to watch what I eat since I'm high end of normal.
The labs do have a test for it. I encourage you to find a new doctor or find the test number from the lab you go through and ask again. My A1C was 5.5, but my insulin was quite high. My doctor went from "you're fine, there's nothing to do" to "let's get you a referral to an endo" based on the results. Insulin resistance starts as high insulin and normal blood sugar, and LCHF further masks it in the A1C test, because blood sugar levels aren't spiked all the time (but can still be running higher than they should).
I really don't know who to go to any more though. That was a doctor and a nurse telling me they don't test insulin, I might make an appointment with my preferred doctor for the results and explain the situation to her and see what she says
Is it a UK thing or something!?
Is what a UK thing? Testing insulin? No.
Here is the test information from LabCorp on insulin.
Is refusing to test insulin a UK thing? Perhaps. I'm not British, so I have no idea.
Talk to them about getting your insulin tested. Be assertive and don't take no for an answer. There is a test for it, and it can mean the difference between catching insulin resistance early enough to stave off a Diabetes diagnosis and getting full-blown Diabetes in a few years.0
This discussion has been closed.