Talking about carbs...
homesweeths
Posts: 792 Member
Huh. Was watching Youtube videos this afternoon, mainly because I've caught a cold (how did that happen?) and feel like vegging. I started out watching Paleo or primal themed videos, and stumbled on a string of "high fat low carb" videos. Then I watched this one -- and something she said rang true to me (at least, true to the way my body works).
She talked about how ultra-low carb eating hadn't worked well for her, how she was suffering from moodiness. (I had watched a couple of other videos along her journey -- she'd lost 45 lbs in a year, and then struggled more and more and gained half of it back, but in this latest video she sounds happy and very positive about what she's learned/learning about how her body works.) She said she'd researched and read things by people like Chris Kresser, and then she said something that made me sit up and listen. She said she'd eat some higher carb veggies like beets or sweet potatoes and still feel as if she were in keto (is that how you say it?), with the same feelings as other people she knew who were keeping their carbs under 20 or 30 daily grams.
This resonated with me, because I feel as if I go into fat-burning mode when my carbs are between 50 and 80g a day. If I drop much below 50, I don't do as well.
Maybe it's where my body's "set point" is set? I go into fat-burning mode if my carbs are between 50-80g, and I start craving carbs if I have more than two days in a row above 100g. I don't know how scientific all this is, but it's a good reminder that everyone's body is unique and I need to listen to my body and really pay attention to what it's trying to tell me.
Here's the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0jZv81rg0c
She talked about how ultra-low carb eating hadn't worked well for her, how she was suffering from moodiness. (I had watched a couple of other videos along her journey -- she'd lost 45 lbs in a year, and then struggled more and more and gained half of it back, but in this latest video she sounds happy and very positive about what she's learned/learning about how her body works.) She said she'd researched and read things by people like Chris Kresser, and then she said something that made me sit up and listen. She said she'd eat some higher carb veggies like beets or sweet potatoes and still feel as if she were in keto (is that how you say it?), with the same feelings as other people she knew who were keeping their carbs under 20 or 30 daily grams.
This resonated with me, because I feel as if I go into fat-burning mode when my carbs are between 50 and 80g a day. If I drop much below 50, I don't do as well.
Maybe it's where my body's "set point" is set? I go into fat-burning mode if my carbs are between 50-80g, and I start craving carbs if I have more than two days in a row above 100g. I don't know how scientific all this is, but it's a good reminder that everyone's body is unique and I need to listen to my body and really pay attention to what it's trying to tell me.
Here's the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0jZv81rg0c 0
Replies
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Good video, I love her being truthful about her experiences. Just goes to show one size does not fit all, we are all different and need to listen to our bodies, and also our own obsessions can collide with our own health if we do not listen.0
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I CAN go full keto at 20-30g, and feel good, but that excludes many things I love (I love produce of all kinds!). SO I have found that I am the same as you that if I do 50g-80g, or even 100g net carb I am good as long as I keep active. Not everyone is the same, and feeling good is the key no matter what that means to you.0
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I'd lose my ever loving mind only eating 20-30g of carbs a day, I'd have to restrict my veggies and that would make me sad
not to mention god forbid I wanted the rare treat of 1 banana 
I'm just starting to get into paleo though so I don't know much.0 -
FaylinaMeir wrote: »I'd lose my ever loving mind only eating 20-30g of carbs a day, I'd have to restrict my veggies and that would make me sad not to mention god forbid I wanted the rare treat of 1 banana
I'm just starting to get into paleo though so I don't know much.
It is good for the most part, for me, but I miss things and I hate having to ration broccoli! But I feel good on it!0 -
Well, 20-30 NET carbs will let you eat a good amount of veggies. I don't use the net carbs idea, I just go with what MFP shows and count carbs that way. I tend to stay between 75 and 125 grams of carb a day, some days more. When I am more active I need more.
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High carb made me sick/fat, moderate carb kept me sick/fat, low carb helped a little temporarily, very low carb worked until it didn't. I struggle with cravings even at 20 grams of carbs so for me I had nowhere else to go but to no carbs from plant foods.
I agree that not everyone is like me and will do better on higher carbs, but I've met a bunch of people who've had the same experience as I've had that no amount of plant carbs worked well. Perhaps a metabolic system can be so damaged that it just cannot recover on a "normal" diet?
It's only 18 days, so it's still an experiment in progress, but based on the experience of some other long term non plant eaters, for people with similar health problems as I have, an animal based woe is worth looking at. I'm still Paleo, I've eliminated the dairy (except butter), just only with animal foods.
PS: I was displaying symptoms of vitamin deficiencies (magnesium and potassium for sure) on Paleo and even though it's only 18 days of eating no plants, all of those symptoms have vanished which is surprising to me.
This was shared just for contrast, not to tell anyone that they are doing anything wrong!0 -
I just did a quick glance over the past week or two of my food diary and it looks like my "sweet spot" is between 40-50 carbs. I logged my last weight loss when I was running an average of 40-ish carbs per day.0
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That actually follows with Mark Sisson's carbohydrate curve. He labels the 50-100g range as the "weight loss sweet spot" and isn't a fan of prolonged times deep in ketosis or "zero" carb eating.
I've personally found that I have maintenance firmly locked with carb levels anywhere from about 20 to 100g, but in order to lose weight and fix the rest of my health issues, I've found that, like @Akimajuktuq, I've had to move completely away from plants and do a wholly animal-based diet. As it stands, I'll probably bring some vegetables back in after I reach my weight and health goals, since I already know I can do so without too much detriment, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. As much as I love fruits and some vegetables, if they hurt me more than they help, I have to treat them just like I would anything else that does the same thing.
I think Mark's curve is a good starting point, and with the exception of those of us with really screwed up systems, works well for most people, especially as they get closer to their ideal weights.0 -
FaylinaMeir wrote: »I'd lose my ever loving mind only eating 20-30g of carbs a day, I'd have to restrict my veggies and that would make me sad not to mention god forbid I wanted the rare treat of 1 banana
I'm just starting to get into paleo though so I don't know much.
It is good for the most part, for me, but I miss things and I hate having to ration broccoli! But I feel good on it!
Sadly, bananas have to be a rare treat for me. They can trigger carb cravings for me. However, once in a while I'll really have a strong desire for a banana (like if it's been a really stressful few days), and if I eat one, I feel better and don't get the next-day cravings. I figure those are the times I'm low in potassium, or something.
So, in short, I don't eat banana unless I really, really want some, and if that's the case, I find it satisfying and find that a little (half to one whole) goes a long way.0 -
Akimajuktuq wrote: »High carb made me sick/fat, moderate carb kept me sick/fat, low carb helped a little temporarily, very low carb worked until it didn't. I struggle with cravings even at 20 grams of carbs so for me I had nowhere else to go but to no carbs from plant foods.
I agree that not everyone is like me and will do better on higher carbs, but I've met a bunch of people who've had the same experience as I've had that no amount of plant carbs worked well. Perhaps a metabolic system can be so damaged that it just cannot recover on a "normal" diet?
It's only 18 days, so it's still an experiment in progress, but based on the experience of some other long term non plant eaters, for people with similar health problems as I have, an animal based woe is worth looking at. I'm still Paleo, I've eliminated the dairy (except butter), just only with animal foods.
PS: I was displaying symptoms of vitamin deficiencies (magnesium and potassium for sure) on Paleo and even though it's only 18 days of eating no plants, all of those symptoms have vanished which is surprising to me.
This was shared just for contrast, not to tell anyone that they are doing anything wrong!
Wow, I'm so glad to read this update! I'm glad this is working for you.0 -
yeah I looked at a website about zero carb eating and frankly I could NEVER do that, but if people are happy and healthy doing it, more power to them.0
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Akimajuktuq wrote: »High carb made me sick/fat, moderate carb kept me sick/fat, low carb helped a little temporarily, very low carb worked until it didn't. I struggle with cravings even at 20 grams of carbs so for me I had nowhere else to go but to no carbs from plant foods.
I'm still Paleo, I've eliminated the dairy (except butter), just only with animal foods.
PS: I was displaying symptoms of vitamin deficiencies (magnesium and potassium for sure) on Paleo and even though it's only 18 days of eating no plants, all of those symptoms have vanished which is surprising to me.
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Oops, I forgot to add my own comments above. I am doing something similar right now. I have been primal for almost 5 years, but found my weight loss was only averaging 10 pounds per year simply by eliminating grains and starchy stuff like rice and potatoes, so thought I'd try lowering my carb intake and upping my fat consumption, and so far it's working.
I've been eating a more keto / primal diet, including some dairy for the last 2 months and have lost 20 pounds since Jan 1/15. But now I think I need to be a bit more careful and watch my intake of dairy, nuts and vegetables. I am now aiming for about 10 g carbs/day, but will still keep some avocado and leafy greens mainly for the potassium, but will focus on mainly meat and eggs and fats for most of my calories. I do supplement with Vitamins C and D, Omega 3 fish oil and magnesium.
But all of this is an experiment and may change. As I go, I get more and more comfortable giving up the carbs, and keep feeling better and better.0 -
I don't know why people say "I would never do that". I'm not telling anyone they have to, just sharing that when nothing else fully resolve an issue there may be other options. If one is sick and nothing is working people will try things they never imagined. Being well is worth anything. I'm still in the experiment, day 22, so I still don't know what the long term effects are, but I've lost over 5 pounds effortlessly, after a year and a half of nothing but struggles and going more up than down with body fat.0
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Akimajuktuq wrote: »I don't know why people say "I would never do that". I'm not telling anyone they have to, just sharing that when nothing else fully resolve an issue there may be other options. If one is sick and nothing is working people will try things they never imagined. Being well is worth anything. I'm still in the experiment, day 22, so I still don't know what the long term effects are, but I've lost over 5 pounds effortlessly, after a year and a half of nothing but struggles and going more up than down with body fat.
I think it is because we have a stronger attachment and love of vegetation! I would say that too, right now, that I would never do that. BUT if I found I HAD to for some reason, I guess I would. But I would be posting cheats of fruit and roasted brussels sprouts!! I would be like "I can't do this, I have to have my berries and burnt brussels sprouts!! What am I gonna do??!"0 -
^I wouldn't for a minute suggest everyone should, but dismissing it annoyed me. I'm not doing it because it sounded like fun, but because nothing else has worked. Having my diabetes symptoms return with a vengeance and the increasing vitamin and mineral deficiencies - I had to figure something out; try something different.
But it actually is kind of fun to eat to live, rather than live to eat. I spend so little time messing about with food that it's liberating. I've got so much time for other things in life suddenly. I didn't even know that would be a pro of this new WOE. It's been WAY easier than I thought it would be and my transition has been smoother than many others who are doing the same WOE, but I agree that the mental block would be greater for most other people. Having lived close to aboriginal people in the Arctic and sub-Arctic most of my life made it a much easier thing to consider.0 -
Akimajuktuq wrote: »^I wouldn't for a minute suggest everyone should, but dismissing it annoyed me. I'm not doing it because it sounded like fun, but because nothing else has worked. Having my diabetes symptoms return with a vengeance and the increasing vitamin and mineral deficiencies - I had to figure something out; try something different.
But it actually is kind of fun to eat to live, rather than live to eat. I spend so little time messing about with food that it's liberating. I've got so much time for other things in life suddenly. I didn't even know that would be a pro of this new WOE. It's been WAY easier than I thought it would be and my transition has been smoother than many others who are doing the same WOE, but I agree that the mental block would be greater for most other people. Having lived close to aboriginal people in the Arctic and sub-Arctic most of my life made it a much easier thing to consider.
Glad it is working for you! I understand the dismissal and your point both. I totally dismiss it for ME because I am not at a point that I could do it. But I am also really glad it is working for you and don't take anything away from that. It is good for those who need to and CAN!0 -
How in the heck are people getting around 50g of carbs?!? The carbs in veggies and fruit really add up. I'm assuming most of your day is meat and nuts? I'm lucky to stay under my goal of 130g.0
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Meat is the heart of the paleo diet (no pun intended)...
Most vegetables are pretty low in carbohydrates. If you're looking to eat less carbs, try eating more leafy greens, mushrooms, tomatoes, broccoli, asparagus, brussels sprouts, etc. Avoid starchy veg and try not to eat too much fruit.0 -
^this. It makes my heart sing to see someone say "meat is the heart of the Paleo diet" because I think that is true.
It's VERY easy to be Paleo and be under 50 grams of carbs. You can eat so many veggies on that allotment (if one desires and tolerates them)! Most people with any extra fat are best off avoiding fruit anyway. Sugar matters. Nuts aren't a good food to be consuming lots of and they are pretty carby as well. Avoiding grains? Well nuts have the same negative effects on the body.0 -
MrsBailey149 wrote: »How in the heck are people getting around 50g of carbs?!? The carbs in veggies and fruit really add up. I'm assuming most of your day is meat and nuts? I'm lucky to stay under my goal of 130g.
You'd be surprised. There are lots of veggies out there that are low in carbs. My diet includes lots of broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, carrots, kale, mushrooms, onions, rutabagas, "power greens" (that's kale and spinach and other things I can't remember), spinach, summer squash, turnips. I'm sure there are lots more that I'm not including, as I'm feeling rather brain dead.
Edited to add cauliflower. Can't leave that out! It's my main potato and rice substitute. I also just discovered that celery root can be turned into passable hashbrowns.
Because I don't do well when my carbs are *too* low, I add in parsnips, sweet potatoes and winter squash, as much as a cup a day if I look at my food log and notice I'm under 50.
For fruit, I might have a cup of berries in a day, or half a grapefruit. Too much fruit makes me crave carbs. Once in a great while, I'll have some apple or pear or peach or banana or grapes.
Most of my food consists of protein (meat, eggs, poultry, fish, liver), fat, and vegetables. I rarely eat nuts. And my sweet tooth has really decreased. I can get by on a square of 85% chocolate, or a "fat bomb" made of coconut oil, shredded (unsweetened) coconut, and raw cacao or cocoa powder and feel satisfied. Things I used to love (milk chocolate, semi-sweet chocolate) are now too sweet.
Hope that helps.
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MrsBailey149 wrote: »How in the heck are people getting around 50g of carbs?!? The carbs in veggies and fruit really add up. I'm assuming most of your day is meat and nuts? I'm lucky to stay under my goal of 130g.
I also have a very hard time with getting my days to work out to under 50g of carbs. They are still around 100gs, but am trying to assess if it really makes a difference for me. I definitely live to eat! It is great to pay attention and know at what amount of carbs do the cravings hit the hardest.0 -
homesweeths wrote: »
how do you make the "fat bomb" sounds good! also has anyone heard of The Bulletproof Diet? and is there a way to set MFP so i can get updates in email to know when topics are updated? thanks !MrsBailey149 wrote: »or a "fat bomb" made of coconut oil, shredded (unsweetened) coconut, and raw cacao or cocoa powder and feel satisfied.
Hope that helps.0 -
MrsBailey149 wrote: »How in the heck are people getting around 50g of carbs?!? The carbs in veggies and fruit really add up. I'm assuming most of your day is meat and nuts? I'm lucky to stay under my goal of 130g.
I also have a very hard time with getting my days to work out to under 50g of carbs. They are still around 100gs, but am trying to assess if it really makes a difference for me. I definitely live to eat! It is great to pay attention and know at what amount of carbs do the cravings hit the hardest.
Drop the fruit. That seems to be the bulk of your carbs. You also have a number of items that are, by themselves, 20g+. Dropping those off would go a long way toward getting under 100g consistently, and getting more toward 50g.0 -
I've read the Bulletproof Diet book. It's got some good principles but I didn't finish it because so much of it felt like, "You have to buy this extra-special fancy low mold coffee, and this extra-special vanilla powder, and this extra-special..."
I haven't made fat bombs in over a week, but basically it's just coconut oil, unsweetened shredded coconut, and cacao powder. You can add flavors (vanilla or orange or almond extract, or cinnamon) if you want. I don't even sweeten mine, but I started out with just a touch of honey and gradually decreased the honey until now I don't add any. You mix it all together (some people melt the coconut oil, some just put everything into a food processor as is), spoon it into a silicone candy mold if you have one (I use my silicon mini-muffin "tin"), and let it set up in the freezer for a short time. Or just eat it with a spoon. But be careful, it can be addictive. I find it so satisfying that I'm happy with a TBS or two (depending on how low I am in fat for the day. Some days I need 2 TBS to get to my 60% macro for fat!).
Do a web search on "paleo fat bombs" and you'll find plenty of recipes. I don't remember the proportions I used last time, so I'm going to have to do a web search for a sample recipe the next time I make them.0 -
thank you homesweeths.. i am going to try the "mold free" coffee as i love coffee by i seem to have some allergic reactions to it .. will be interesting to see if there is any difference. I don't have the bullet proof diet book, i can never seem to get very far with books but i was just curious about the principles. thanks for all your great feedback! 0
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You're welcome! Oh, you can also make fat bombs with nut/seed butter, but I have to minimize those, so I forgot to include them earlier.0
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From my research on this subject I think this has much to do with your ancestral make up although even within certain groups this can vary. I think that while our genes are mostly identical to pre-historic man there has still been evolutionary changes depending on where your ancestors lived and what food was most available to them. If your people lived north and adapted to eating mostly meat that would likely work best for you. If your people lived near the equator and had more access to fruit and starchy tubers than the opposite would likely be true. I realize theis is a huge generalization and once again, will not work for everyone across the board. Personally I do not need to limit my overall carbs very much to lose weight and feel good. I really only have to worry about the fructose and make sure that's in check. I do great on a very high fat and moderate protein/carb diet and am fine if my carbs are up to 150g on heavy work out days.0
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Preach it, newmeadow.
My style of paleo works when I keep my carbs under 100g a day (averaging about 80g, I think, if I averaged it out over a week. One or two days approach 150g, but mostly under 100g). I could easily go way higher than that in the carb count, with "paleo-approved" foods, but it's not the way my body feels at its best. Someone else, though, might need much more in the way of carbs than I do. Or much less.
I think that's one of the beauties of paleo -- it's not a one-size-fits-all program. Or maybe it is. I just confused myself with the mental image I was trying for. What I'm trying to say is that it's not a list of rigid guidelines (you *must* eat this, this, and this). The most helpful advice I've seen is more of the variety that says something like: "BEST would be to eat grass-fed meats, but if you can't afford them, try for...(insert descriptions of "BETTER" and "GOOD" here)...or if you can only manage conventional meat, pick the leanest cuts or cut the skin off, and add good fats to your diet to make up for it."
The thing that amazes me about paleo is the variety and deliciousness of the food. I'm eating way better than I ever did, pre-paleo. I'm enjoying the taste of my food. And I'm feeling better, healthwise, than I have in years.0 -
Of course... but when I see people filling up on high carb/sugar Paleo substitutes and eating loads of fruit, I don't actually think that's in the spirit of Paleo either, personally. And then it's that much more annoying when these questions arise: "why am I not feeling good; why am I not losing weight?" And then not long after "Paleo doesn't work".
Every person is different! However, the majority of people here are over-weight and have clear metabolic problems (obesity, diabetes, depression, etc). That's why lower carb is often beneficial. And 100 grams IS low carb; much lower than SAD.
Last time I checked most cities have farmers markets. I am from the camp that putting effort into researching and finding the best foods (not labelled organic!) is a worthwhile pursuit. I found my supplier online, didn't even have to leave the house. Food direct from farmers is better quality for a competitive price (sometimes cheaper).
I saved money when I went Paleo; how do I know? Because I record every penny I spend and have for years. Now that I eat even more simplistically than when I first started Paleo, I'm saving even more. All those fancy flours, nuts, spices, etc? Not necessary.0
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