Squats
GuitarJerry
Posts: 6,102 Member
So, I used to think that deadlifts were hurting my lower back. It has been absolutely resolved that it is back squats that are hurting my lower back.
I have investigated solutions. One is to tighten my core as much as possible, then lower down as far as I can while maintaining a tight core. I tried this without weight, and I cannot get down very far. I have concluded that my extremely tight muscles forces my back to arch as I get down into the squat. The solution, according to Mark Rippletoe, is to not go all the way down, but only go as far down as my body allows, like maybe parallel. At the same time, work on flexibility in the hips, ankles, etc.
I don't think I'm rounding, I think I'm hyper-extending the lower tail bone (sorry I don't know the technical term for it).
Does this sound right. I'm going to try it on my next squat session with lighter weight and see how it feels.
Any other suggestions?
TIA.
I have investigated solutions. One is to tighten my core as much as possible, then lower down as far as I can while maintaining a tight core. I tried this without weight, and I cannot get down very far. I have concluded that my extremely tight muscles forces my back to arch as I get down into the squat. The solution, according to Mark Rippletoe, is to not go all the way down, but only go as far down as my body allows, like maybe parallel. At the same time, work on flexibility in the hips, ankles, etc.
I don't think I'm rounding, I think I'm hyper-extending the lower tail bone (sorry I don't know the technical term for it).
Does this sound right. I'm going to try it on my next squat session with lighter weight and see how it feels.
Any other suggestions?
TIA.
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Replies
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Biggest suggestion would be to post a video or two. You can PM them to me if you'd like, or just post them to our thread.
Beyond that I would also be curious if bar placement plays a role. So for example if you are low bar back squatting I'd be curious if you can front squat without pain.
Another simple thing to test could be to goblet squat as deep as you can and see if that causes any pain.
Changing the placement of the load will naturally change your torso angle which can then effect the contribution your posterior chain makes in the movement.
This isn't to suggest that it's strictly a bar placement issue, it's just something you can try to see if it's strictly a function of depth or if it's spine angle/etc.
Are you squatting belted or unbelted? If you squat belted and take a belly full of air and push against the belt does this change what your back feels?0 -
In for the video!0
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In for resolution.0
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I'd hazard a guess that you're probably bracing incorrectly, and a flaired up ribcage is part of the problem. Do you cue 'Chest up' or 'big chest', anything like that? Look into maintaining a 'down' ribcage and neutral hips - solar plexus and pelvic floor should line up. Here's an article worth reading;
http://www.jtsstrength.com/articles/2014/05/30/2-concepts-every-coach-needs-every-athlete-understand/
Once you've read that and understand the concepts you can apply it to information like this;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZDVHVohtmE 0 -
Maybe also consider varying width of stance for foot placement. By lifting sumo I can go deeper, in part because of tight hamstrings and hip flexors. Your issue is lower back, but the hip bone is connected to the back bone and all that jazz.0
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The front squat seems to bother my back more.0
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arabianhorselover wrote: »The front squat seems to bother my back more.
Upper or lower?0 -
Lower.0
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GuitarJerry wrote: »Oh sorry, I forgot to follow-up. I made the decision to stop back squatting. I have tried just about everything except hiring a trainer, which maybe could fix my issue. However, it's not worth the aggravation. Every time I back squat, my lower back is in intense pain for days. I am glad I was able to isolate the exercise that was causing this problem. Instead, now I am doing single leg leg presses. And I am combining that with additional work such as hip thrusters and RDL's. I know it's not the same, but at least I no longer have back pain. After two or three years of relentless form changes, I've just decided that back squats are not for me. I have had people watch me squat, and say my form is great. So, I don't know what's going on. I do have really bad posture (I have since I was a kid). My back curves in, sway back. I've been that way since birth, although my chiropractor tells me that's wrong and I just have horrible posture and thinks I can correct it. Also, I am very very tight. I am just not flexible at all. So, I don't know if I round me back, or if I over extend it. Probably the latter. But, when the weight gets heavy, I don't know how to keep from doing that. Could be a weak core. But, in any case, it's not worth continuing to cause pain.
My routine for legs consists of single leg press, thrusters, deadlift, leg curl, front squat, and RDL. I do others too, depending on how I feel.
Thanks for all your help.
I have (had?) a sway back and used to get bad lower back pain. I do not have it anymore and luckily do not have any issues from lifting and in fact I think it helped, but also what did help, and this is a bit random, was changing my mattress. When I was ill after my aneurysm I spent quite a bit of time in bed as I was not very ambulatory for a while even after I came out of hospital. I sleep on my stomach and this seemed to get worse when I changed my mattress - so I bought another one and I ended up getting a memory foam one - it made a huge difference. I also stopped having pain in my back doing some other things that used to cause it (e.g. walking a lot carrying a load) since I started lifting - so my posture may be improved from that as well. May not be relevant for you, but it may be worth looking into if you still have back pain.0 -
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Jerry have you tried goblet squats?0
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GuitarJerry wrote: »
Basically yes although the goblet squat tends to be easier to learn in that one of the major challenges in a front squat is bar placement. Goblet squatting is easier to get into with less learning and consequently it would be faster to use as a test of sorts on your back.
Either way though, if you're able to front squat, try it.
I'm just curious if it's a function of spine angle, or compressive force, or .... something else.0 -
Damn, I was curious to see the video. Now I wonder if you just have a medical issue or just a form oddity. I would THINK if you had a bulging disc or something along those lines, you'd feel it SOMEWHERE. Like on rows, or deadlifts or ANYTHING.0
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Goblet Squat is what I do. But i modify it and use two dumbbells instead of one, I don't want to lug around a 140 pound dumbbell. I tried the front squat, but the form is difficult and if you do it wrong it will put a lot of stress on your lower back. It just seems easier to control with dumbbells. Keep your core tight when you do it.0
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pretty pro tips der0 -
GuitarJerry wrote: »Side Steel, I did goblets squats. Not full on. But did 3 sets. One with a 50lb DB, and the 2nd with an 80lb DB. The 80lb dumbbell created a twinge in my lower back so I stopped. I only felt it when I was deep in the squat. If I only went about parallel, I didn't feel anything at all.
Too much depth creating too much butt wink and thus the source of your lower back pain maybe? Not that it matters anymore I guess.0 -
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GuitarJerry wrote: »Side Steel, I did goblets squats. Not full on. But did 3 sets. One with a 50lb DB, and the 2nd with an 80lb DB. The 80lb dumbbell created a twinge in my lower back so I stopped. I only felt it when I was deep in the squat. If I only went about parallel, I didn't feel anything at all.
Too much depth creating too much butt wink and thus the source of your lower back pain maybe? Not that it matters anymore I guess.
That thought crossed my mind also.0 -
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I agree with Dope. Get this on vid if you can
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Have you had some injuries that could be causing tighter than normal back/glute/hamstring muscles?
I mean, not normal I don't stretch much tightness, but even more.
And is the tightness evenly matched on sides?
Like if you stretch muscle on one side for 10 sec and feel the amount of tightness - equal amount on other side when stretching same way?
I found those imbalances very interesting to my own pelvic tilt that were causing many issues.0 -
Hey, I don't know if this helps other but it helped me. I focused on front squats and goblets to help my mobility.
But what helped my pain was a wider stance, and doing more core exercises and hyperextensions for lower back.
It isn't painful anymore, so I guess my core wasn't as strong as my erector spinae, so the lower back was pulling more.
Any people with longer lower bodies have issues and had to do a wider stance?0
https://youtu.be/RXzqWHuAkAM
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