Keto verses LCHF
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Can someone explain the difference between Keto Diet and LCHF Diet? Also can medications keep your ketossis stick from changing colors?
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Check out the Launch Pad, it should have the answers to at least your first question. Here's a good primer -- http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10039486/what-is-low-carb-an-overview-and-guide0
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I really don't think of them as different. Keto, Atkins (old school), LCHF - to me they all mean drastically lower your carbs, don't be afraid of fat, eat until satisfied but not stuffed, and get into ketosis/weight loss by burning fat stores.0
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Can someone explain the difference between Keto Diet and LCHF Diet? Also can medications keep your ketossis stick from changing colors?
There are differences between the LCHF regimens. All low carb diets are LCHF, but Keto is an especially low carb regimen.
Here is a good explanation:
DittoDan's Keto Sub Groups Blog
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
Keto / IF / Sedentary
100 pounds down, 24 to go.
It's Ketogenic or Bariatric Surgery! How I Found the Ketogenic Diet
Previous Discussions on the LCD & Keto Groups
Blog #10 Keto: Abbreviations, Acronyms & Terminology Used on the LCD & Keto Discussion Groups Updated
Blog #13 DittoDan's Milestone's, First's And Good Changes Since Starting the Ketogenic Diet Updated
DittoDan's Keto Blogs
How I got Off of Diabetic Prescriptions Drugs Since I Started Keto Updated
Blog #11 Really Good Keto Websites0 -
JessicaLCHF wrote: »I really don't think of them as different. Keto, Atkins (old school), LCHF - to me they all mean drastically lower your carbs, don't be afraid of fat, eat until satisfied but not stuffed, and get into ketosis/weight loss by burning fat stores.
The main difference is that some of them (keto, Atkins) specifically seek out ketosis. For the others (LCHF, ZC), ketosis isn't specifically sought after. If it happens, great; if not, no biggie. In practice, they're all pretty close to one another and vary largely only by the amount of carbohydrates one intakes and the specific fat to protein ratio, but for all of those, you're talking a couple dozen grams in any given direction.0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »JessicaLCHF wrote: »I really don't think of them as different. Keto, Atkins (old school), LCHF - to me they all mean drastically lower your carbs, don't be afraid of fat, eat until satisfied but not stuffed, and get into ketosis/weight loss by burning fat stores.
The main difference is that some of them (keto, Atkins) specifically seek out ketosis. For the others (LCHF, ZC), ketosis isn't specifically sought after. If it happens, great; if not, no biggie. In practice, they're all pretty close to one another and vary largely only by the amount of carbohydrates one intakes and the specific fat to protein ratio, but for all of those, you're talking a couple dozen grams in any given direction.
Ah. Yeah, I'm the "if it happens" type, but it always happens too, so... And I LOVE seeing that dark pink on the stick.
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JessicaLCHF wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »JessicaLCHF wrote: »I really don't think of them as different. Keto, Atkins (old school), LCHF - to me they all mean drastically lower your carbs, don't be afraid of fat, eat until satisfied but not stuffed, and get into ketosis/weight loss by burning fat stores.
The main difference is that some of them (keto, Atkins) specifically seek out ketosis. For the others (LCHF, ZC), ketosis isn't specifically sought after. If it happens, great; if not, no biggie. In practice, they're all pretty close to one another and vary largely only by the amount of carbohydrates one intakes and the specific fat to protein ratio, but for all of those, you're talking a couple dozen grams in any given direction.
Ah. Yeah, I'm the "if it happens" type, but it always happens too, so... And I LOVE seeing that dark pink on the stick.
Love that!0 -
Since I started this, I've only ever once seen the stick turn dark pink, most of the time it stays in trace.... even when I ate nothing but meat for 3 days straight. But I've never gone over 50 net carbs, or 50 carbs in general (save for my one cheat day). Most of the times I'm 10-30 net. I'm losing weight and I don't trust the sticks and I'm not shelling out the funds to get the blood test strips. So, I don't know what gives. Unless the scale stops going down, I'm not really going to worry about ketosis.
I guess that makes me more low carb than keto though, as the others above have said.
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Note that if you are fully keto adapted you body isn't producing an excess of ketones. At that point ketones in the urine will only be at a trace amount, you would only see high levels if something unusual is going.
It works the same way when you are burning sugar for fuel. Glucose in the blood would be a cause for concern if you are on SAD.0 -
They are functionally the same in my case.
@Fvaisey makes a valid point about ketones in the urine will decrease as the body learns how to burn them well.0 -
I'm actually trying to stay out of ketosis..but it is hard because I keep staying under 50 g and then I feel sick and think I need more carb but my calories get all whacked and there is no room for more carbs.
Is sweating and stomach ache a sign of keto?
I'm only trying to loose 10 pounds!0 -
Well no help here...lol. I guess I'm in this thing on my own.
Middle of the road Lchf is the pits.
What a bummer.
I guess because most people don't hang there..middle of the fence. .so they have no experience with it.
The Lord warned us about middle of the fence stuff...lol I had no idea it could include lchf..lol0 -
I'm actually trying to stay out of ketosis..but it is hard because I keep staying under 50 g and then I feel sick and think I need more carb but my calories get all whacked and there is no room for more carbs.
Is sweating and stomach ache a sign of keto?
I'm only trying to loose 10 pounds!
If you're staying under 50g carbs, you're going to have a very difficult time staying out of ketosis. It may be impossible.
As for the rest, make sure you're getting enough salt, potassium, and magnesium. Suddenly increasing your fats can also cause sweating & a stomach ache, especially with coconut or MCT oil.0 -
chaoticdreams wrote: »Since I started this, I've only ever once seen the stick turn dark pink, most of the time it stays in trace.... even when I ate nothing but meat for 3 days straight. But I've never gone over 50 net carbs, or 50 carbs in general (save for my one cheat day). Most of the times I'm 10-30 net. I'm losing weight and I don't trust the sticks and I'm not shelling out the funds to get the blood test strips. So, I don't know what gives. Unless the scale stops going down, I'm not really going to worry about ketosis.
I guess that makes me more low carb than keto though, as the others above have said.
Your body can convert protein to glucose through gluconeogenesis, so maybe the protein is too high? Keto is supposed to be high fat, moderate protein, low carb. Good luck!0 -
I'm actually trying to stay out of ketosis..but it is hard because I keep staying under 50 g and then I feel sick and think I need more carb but my calories get all whacked and there is no room for more carbs.
Is sweating and stomach ache a sign of keto?
I'm only trying to loose 10 pounds!
If you always start having the same symptoms predictably when carbs go lower, it's probably just a sign your electrolytes are low, not a true need for carbs. When in ketosis, a certain amount of effort to keep salt intake up is necessary to maintain electrolyte balance.
But if you're dipping down under 50g a few days here and there, then having much higher days, then going back down, you are kind of on a ketosis roller coaster.
Keto may not be for you, but I wouldn't use the roller coaster effect you have experienced to decide since you may be constantly experiencing the low electrolyte symptoms off and on uneccessarily. Consistency will help you reap the benefits, but you'd have to be committed and make sure to maintain electrolytes.
But, there are lots of people in the group that stay around 50g, some that stay around 75g and still others at 100g or 150g. There is a low carb that is right for everyone.0 -
I'm actually trying to stay out of ketosis..but it is hard because I keep staying under 50 g and then I feel sick and think I need more carb but my calories get all whacked and there is no room for more carbs.
Is sweating and stomach ache a sign of keto?
I'm only trying to loose 10 pounds!
@pondsbb I think you are viewing VLCHF as a weight loss method which is not medically what lead to the VLCHF diet usage. Weight loss is a Side Effect of Very Low Carb High Fat eating lifestyle. Ketosis is more about living as long as possible yet walking and talking up to the last minute.
The anti-aging effect of VLCHF eating lifestyle like preventing cancer, Alzheimer's, stroke, Parkinson, heart attacks, etc are drivers of eating VLCHF lifestyles.
European and Asian medical professions are more advanced in understanding the connection between food and health it seems from my research. Read through why many are VLCHF for life with no weight loss needed.
nature.com/ejcn/journal/v67/n8/full/ejcn2013116a.html
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I'm actually trying to stay out of ketosis..but it is hard because I keep staying under 50 g and then I feel sick and think I need more carb but my calories get all whacked and there is no room for more carbs.
Is sweating and stomach ache a sign of keto?
I'm only trying to loose 10 pounds!
I've been staying around 50g of Carbs for 8 months now. In general, all of the side effects have been positive. I do find that I need to keep my make sure I get enough sodium and potassium. I experienced a few leg cramps and found that I needed to supplement magnesium.
I'm not sure why you think it's important to stay out of ketosis. I don't monitor that as a general practice and find it doesn't really make a difference day to day. I'd suggest that if you shoot for less than 50g of carbs a day and pay attention to electrolytes, you are going to feel better in the long run, you'll drop that 10 pounds quickly and be able to maintain it easily. IMO0 -
I'm not sure why you think it's important to stay out of ketosis. I don't monitor that as a general practice and find it doesn't really make a difference day to day. I'd suggest that if you shoot for less than 50g of carbs a day and pay attention to electrolytes, you are going to feel better in the long run, you'll drop that 10 pounds quickly and be able to maintain it easily. IMO
Well I'm trying to stay out to keep from yoyoing in and out. I thought it would make me feel bad and I haven't been feeling so good.
I have always supplemented magnesium because of irregular heartbeat. .and I eat a lot of salt. Maybe the potassium is something I might need.
yes I am viewing it for weight loss. As long as I'm counting stuff I feel like I'm dieting. Walking and talking up to the last minute would be good too.GaleHawkins wrote: »@pondsbb I think you are viewing VLCHF as a weight loss method which is not medically what lead to the VLCHF diet usage. Weight loss is a Side Effect of Very Low Carb High Fat eating lifestyle. Ketosis is more about living as long as possible yet walking and talking up to the last minute.
The anti-aging effect of VLCHF eating lifestyle like preventing cancer, Alzheimer's, stroke, Parkinson, heart attacks, etc are drivers of eating VLCHF lifestyles.
European and Asian medical professions are more advanced in understanding the connection between food and health it seems from my research. Read through why many are VLCHF for life with no weight loss needed.
nature.com/ejcn/journal/v67/n8/full/ejcn2013116a.html[/url
Thanks everyone for the info.0 -
Once you actually get to ketosis and stay there so you are adapted, you will have many benefits and even if you have a high carb day once a week or so (within reason), you can generally get back into it pretty easily after you're adapted. You wouldn't want to carb binge and then sit on the couch all day or anything, but if you had a piece of cake and went for a walk to use up good portion of that glucose, you should bounce right back.0
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but I have no intention of staying low carb my entire life. Once I loose this last 10 pounds I'm going up to 100 to 200 grams a day. It might take longer to loose at 50 to 70 g a day but I'm willing to wait.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Once you actually get to ketosis and stay there so you are adapted, you will have many benefits and even if you have a high carb day once a week or so (within reason), you can generally get back into it pretty easily after you're adapted. You wouldn't want to carb binge and then sit on the couch all day or anything, but if you had a piece of cake and went for a walk to use up good portion of that glucose, you should bounce right back.
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Your body can convert protein to glucose through gluconeogenesis, so maybe the protein is too high? Keto is supposed to be high fat, moderate protein, low carb. Good luck!
Hmmm, I've been wondering about that myself. How much protein is too much protein though? I usually eat 100 grams or less. I read that your supposed to do 40g at each meal on the Atkins site? I'm more or less doing Atkins induction. As mentioned, I am showing trace amounts which tells me I'm in ketosis. Either I'm fat adapted by now or the ketones are going somewhere. I know you can breathe them out, but I haven't really had keto breath. Or no one has mentioned it LOL. But from week one, the strips have only once turned darker than trace.
I know the strips are inaccurate though.
As said, I'm not going to stress over it. I'm losing so I guess I'm doing something right. I put my macros in from the ketocalculator site and for the past few weeks been trying to keep my protein at that level.
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but I have no intention of staying low carb my entire life. Once I loose this last 10 pounds I'm going up to 100 to 200 grams a day. It might take longer to loose at 50 to 70 g a day but I'm willing to wait.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Once you actually get to ketosis and stay there so you are adapted, you will have many benefits and even if you have a high carb day once a week or so (within reason), you can generally get back into it pretty easily after you're adapted. You wouldn't want to carb binge and then sit on the couch all day or anything, but if you had a piece of cake and went for a walk to use up good portion of that glucose, you should bounce right back.
@pondsbb if there is no health concerns that you want to address by being low carb other than your weight there is no reason to stay low carb by anyone.
Some of us have damaged our health due to past lifestyles. Taking 10 years off the age of the skin on my face is not medically important but is one of many nice low carb side effects that I am experiencing.
Keeping my pain level low is why I plan to stay low carb for life but that is more a medical reason.
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I still have quite a bit of weight to lose, so LCHF/Keto is my lifestyle. However, once I have lost the weight, I have no plans to up my carbs as I am very comfortable at this level, so I guess I will be LCHF for life.
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Interesting idea :re protein levels. What should they be for a Type 2 diabetic?0
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Aside from missing the convenience of sandwiches, I'm pretty content on this diet. I haven't really had any desire for carbs since week 3, with very very minor cravings for stuff like pizza and rolls. And that to me is weird, because I considered sweets always to be my hangup, not bread or potatoes. As it is, I've sat through 3 office parties with desserts that I used to love and haven't felt one oz of desire to eat a piece. I totally see this becoming for life.
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chaoticdreams wrote: »
Your body can convert protein to glucose through gluconeogenesis, so maybe the protein is too high? Keto is supposed to be high fat, moderate protein, low carb. Good luck!
Hmmm, I've been wondering about that myself. How much protein is too much protein though? I usually eat 100 grams or less. I read that your supposed to do 40g at each meal on the Atkins site? I'm more or less doing Atkins induction. As mentioned, I am showing trace amounts which tells me I'm in ketosis. Either I'm fat adapted by now or the ketones are going somewhere. I know you can breathe them out, but I haven't really had keto breath. Or no one has mentioned it LOL. But from week one, the strips have only once turned darker than trace. I know the strips are inaccurate though.
As said, I'm not going to stress over it. I'm losing so I guess I'm doing something right. I put my macros in from the ketocalculator site and for the past few weeks been trying to keep my protein at that level.
There was another post where this subject came up and I had the same understanding as you on this at that time. But someone explained it differently and had supporting information and I also found a detailed explanation that I linked at that time from khan academy (online resource to learn almost anything), that basically said that the body would only turn enough protein into glucose that it needs for that day. Which I think was around 40g or so. Really not sure about that amount. I don't remember what I learn in detail very well, just the overall idea. But I understood that it just does not continue converting extra protein to glucose. It turns the rest into the same amino acids that fat is turned into.
So, muscles get first dibs for their needs, then if any glucose is needed (I think the brain requires a certain amount) and finally the rest ends up the same as the fat we eat.
So, it's not actually a problem to go over on protein.0 -
Me too. I lost by eating carbs below 40 gr/ day or so (never tested at all for ketosis), and lower calories. Now I am able to maintain at slightly higher carbs and higher calorie intake. But whenever I go off and eat whatever is available (not binging, just "normal" like other people) I start to gain. So it is LCHF for life for me. I feel better with the balance that it brings to my insulin levels, no sugar crashes anymore. Less brain fog. That is what keeps me on it.chaoticdreams wrote: »Aside from missing the convenience of sandwiches, I'm pretty content on this diet. I haven't really had any desire for carbs since week 3, with very very minor cravings for stuff like pizza and rolls. And that to me is weird, because I considered sweets always to be my hangup, not bread or potatoes. As it is, I've sat through 3 office parties with desserts that I used to love and haven't felt one oz of desire to eat a piece. I totally see this becoming for life.
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Interesting idea :re protein levels. What should they be for a Type 2 diabetic?
Like every question about diabetes the answer is "it depends." One of the effects of diabetes is kidney damage. If you are under a doctor's care part of your regular set of lab tests should be one for protein in the urine. Proteins, glucose or ketones in the urine are all wasted nutrients. So I limit my carbs to keep my blood glucose level controlled, eat fats to supply most of my energy needs. I'm trying to eat enough protein to supply any tissue building needs but not so much that it results in my kidneys having to dump excess. Quite frankly I don't think the science is there on how all these moving parts work together but my best guess is that for me it works out to 80-100 grams per day.
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Thank! That give me a good ballpark.0
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