Keto and Diabetes

dobenjam · August 2015

Hi All,

I just started a Keto diet (on Saturday) and I have some questions for anyone who may be able to help. I was diagnosed as prediabetic a while back but now seem to be full blown T2 diabetic based on my blood sugar levels over the last few days.

I will obviously make a Dr. Apt so no need to suggest that.

I have been eating less than 20g of total carbs since Saturday. This is also when I started checking my blood sugar and ketone levels with a blood meter. I was already eating fairly low carb but wasn't following any diet before Saturday.

I was hoping the Keto diet would reduce my blood glucose. I'm usually around 130-150 (fasting or post meal). I don't know what the numbers were before the diet but I assume much worse. I've been exercising a lot (running/walking) and thought I'd see better blood glucose levels by now.

My Ketones were at 1.3 2 hours after breakfast this morning.

I've been sticking to about 80% Fat, 15% Protein, 5% Carbs (although I'm trying to keep carbs as low as possible).

All of that is to ask these questions...

*How long before a Keto diet reduces fasting blood sugar levels?
*Should I not work out right away as my blood glucose seems to spike if I run?
*Would a weight training program help?
*I also have fatty liver syndrome and I'm hoping this will help, has any one had success with both of these on a Keto diet?

Thanks in advance!

radiii · August 2015

You'll definitely be able to control blood sugar issues from diabetes with a ketogenic diet. Many of us here are diabetic or prediabetic and have seen incredible improvements. 130-150 post meal isn't really that bad at all, though you should eventually see improvements on that with keto.

Specific thoughts:

I was already eating fairly low carb but wasn't following any diet before Saturday.

Since you'd already been eating pretty well as far as your carbs go you may not see the instant, drastic improvement that some of us experienced. I'm pretty sure some folks have had things take a little more time to respond, especially with the fasting blood sugar. I definitely wouldn't be worrying about that only 2-3 days in. It'll get there

I can't give you a timeframe sadly. For me it was very quick, but I went from eating fast food daily and probably 400g+ carbs to keto overnight. I've seen others post about a slower/more gradual improvement.

*Should I not work out right away as my blood glucose seems to spike if I run?
*Would a weight training program help?

Standard keto advice for anyone here: Keep doing whatever you were doing already, but if you were exercising with any instensity at al recognize that your performance might drop for a few weeks, but will return to full strength once keto adapted. Starting a keto diet can be a bit rough at first for some folks, so trying to add a new exercise program at the same time can feel overwhelming.

Weight training is GREAT, but same as above, if you're not doing it now, I would wait 4-6 weeks before diving into it.

I don't know anything about fatty liver, I've seen it mentioned too though so you'll get some replies on that I'm sure.

dobenjam · August 2015

Thanks Radiii! I have seen lots of posts about an immediate response to switching to a Keto diet so maybe I'm just being impatient.

I have noticed that I didn't have the endurance I usually have on my run yesterday. I figured I just needed a break but it makes sense that it's because I'm not use to using Ketones for energy yet.

Waiting until I'm Keto adapted before starting weight training also sounds like sound advice.

KETOGENICGURL · August 2015

I'm reposting the Kessler articles..Keto dieters HAVE HIGHER FBG. often because we are burning fats, and changing how insulin works..not a BAD thing at all.. my morning FBG is alway over 100..but my PP is always 140 or less..so I am actually fine. Meds cause a raise too. Lasix and other drugs will do it.

I had a 'dessert" with whipped cream and lots of sugar in it..just a few bites..but my BG jumped to 155 1 hr after…I expect any load of carbs or sugar will do this….continuing to eat carbs will make me diabetic down the road….so staying VLC works for me.

good luck!

http://chriskresser.com/when-your-normal-blood-sugar-isnt-normal-part-1/
http://chriskresser.com/when-your-“normal”-blood-sugar-isn’t-normal-part-2/

dobenjam · August 2015

thank you, that was very interesting. Though I'm not exactly sure what I should think about my numbers now. Today I was 152 FBS when I woke, and 2 hours after breakfast I was down to 101. 101 is the lowest I've seen since I've been tracking (less than a week).

I'm still hoping to hear about how this diet has helped someone who had a fatty liver. I need to get my liver enzymes down and begin healing it. It seems like a Keto diet would help but I haven't seen anyone mention it.

KETOGENICGURL · August 2015

What I can say is I did and may still have liver issues, …....the higher FBG despite VLC is proving it. My MD was more concerned with PP readings…which are normal..how are yours?

I may not be able to do anything ( or YOU either) BUT keep VVLC. On morning when I had almost NO carbs the night before I do have a lower FBG..so berries or other small carb foods do matter. But how much?

also your body may manage the dawn effect of higher FBG different due to MANY metabolic reasons you have little control over. so don't over stress on this.

best to just enjoy LC and see how you do in the long term..never going to 200 after eating dinner is a real win..
( try Pubmed for studies..lots on Non alcoholic fatty liver, but may not answer your question)

KenSmith108 · August 2015

You're welcome to look at my diabetes log. I've been under 20 carbs for about 2 months.
I sometimes look at my numbers and say Are those really mine? for the last 32 years I never had numbers that good.
BTW: My diabetes log is part of my food diary, it's easier for me to keep it all in one place.

SteveKroll · August 2015

It will take some time to get things under control. When I was diagnosed with T2 eleven months ago, my fasting BG was 280 and my A1c a whopping 12.5. The first week after starting keto, my typical morning FBG was down to around 140-160. Within a month, it was down to 85-95, which is about where it is now. Every once in a while - especially after a protein splurge - it will be over 100 when I first get up. But that doesn't happen very often. Note that I don't take any medication.

I've found that weight training and HIIT helps somewhat to keep it even lower. I've sometimes taken a glucose reading before heading off to the gym. Within an hour or two after finishing my workout, it often drops 10-15 mg/dl.

My postprandial numbers tend to run anywhere from 100-115. My last A1c test two months ago was 5.4.

KETOGENICGURL · August 2015

Within a month, it was down to 85-95, which is about where it is now.

Steve, I wish I could get a FBG under 100.. I am not diabetic or pre diabetic according to my PP reading <140…but having a liver just pumping out the inulin in the AM is my problem, my doc said there is no fix.

I DO know if I eat NO carbs my reading may be lower..seeing 122 is disconcerting…and I've seen 97 on a few days..but NEW meds -Lasix for water retention- are raising it and I have to accept it..and stick to VLC.

dobenjam · August 2015

Ken,
It seems your diary is private, but I would love to look through your numbers. My typical FBS is 150, today I was at 108 2 hours after lunch, and 131/133 before and after dinner respectively.

Steve,
Thank you for sharing your success. It is inspiring. I am starting to see the numbers go down which is awesome and very fulfilling. Also, my Ketone numbers are now staying around 1.8-2.8 so I'm in the keto sweet spot. I now feel it's just a matter of time before I'm a little more consistent. I've only been on a keto diet and tracking my blood sugars or a few days.

nvmomketo · August 2015

I started a ketogenic diet partially to get rid of my prediabetes too. I was mostly down into normal range for FBG within a couple of weeks. Every couple of weeks I still seem to get a high blip back up into prediabetic range which lasts a couple of days, but I've had mostly normal FBG ever since that first week or two.

I was worried the diet woul not work great for me because I was only 20lbs above a normal BMI, but it made a huge difference in my health.

I know long walks really bring my FBG down a lot the next day. It puts me into low normal range - always a treat to see. I haven't started a weight program with it yet; I have inflammatory arthritis so I'm giving myself a few months to get used to this WOE before adding something else to my system - I don't want a flare up.

I haven't been checking BG much after meals. I find my FBG is usually my highest BG reading of the day since going LCHF.

Good luck!

Mediocrities · August 2015

Everyone else has already expressed the majority of the thoughts that I have on the topic.

I do want to add, give it time. Personally, I don't go by numbers much (being an emt makes me a horrible patient) so I tend to just go by how I feel. When I fall off the wagon, it takes me about 2 days for my glucose to level back out. (Note: I'm T2 with what they consider to be reactive hypoglycemia. My pancreas really just doesn't like me very much.) I've suggested keto to a couple of diagnosed friends, and their numbers started dropping anywhere from a few days to a few weeks depending on what they ate, when, habits, etc. How everyone responds to their diet is going to be a little bit different.

Keep at it and you will get there

JessicaLCHF · August 2015

dobenjam wrote: »

Hi All,

...

All of that is to ask these questions...

*How long before a Keto diet reduces fasting blood sugar levels?
*Should I not work out right away as my blood glucose seems to spike if I run?
*Would a weight training program help?
*I also have fatty liver syndrome and I'm hoping this will help, has any one had success with both of these on a Keto diet?

Thanks in advance!

1. It took me six months to get my a1c from over nine to under six. As far as fasting numbers if you mean am numbers, dawn phenom keep mine higher than I like. But after around ten am I have awesome numbers all day. I've heard fasting numbers are the last to change and it's been a year for me. So...

2. Idk, I don't run. Walking around the neighborhood after meals drops my sugars about forty points immediately. That's why I do it. I guess you have to experiment.

3. Again, not my area of experience, but I do know "strong women stay slim" (name of a book my doctor gave me) and muscle burns more cals than fat so if you want to lose weight, I say, yes.

4. My husband just got diagnosed with this last week! I have been researching it and there seems to a a lot of evidence that not only is it the best diet for fatty livers, but that after time (500 days +), it can heal your liver. We are trying it. I've been LCHF for over a year. He just started full throttle with me last week.

5. I hate autocorrect! Lol.

JessicaLCHF · August 2015

Yes, I'd also like to add I went from 750 ER metformin to zero in that year, as well. Numbers and a1c still improving thanks to LCHF.

JessicaLCHF · August 2015

dobenjam wrote: »

thank you, that was very interesting. Though I'm not exactly sure what I should think about my numbers now. Today I was 152 FBS when I woke, and 2 hours after breakfast I was down to 101. 101 is the lowest I've seen since I've been tracking (less than a week).

I'm still hoping to hear about how this diet has helped someone who had a fatty liver. I need to get my liver enzymes down and begin healing it. It seems like a Keto diet would help but I haven't seen anyone mention it.

I'll send you some links I found. Not all the ones, but the ones I texted my hubby. They might help.

This was a quote from some guy.

And another testimonial from a different Keto group on fb. "The cause of NAFLD is HFCS fructose and excessive carbohydrates. The only dietary cure is a high fat ketogenic diet. I was diagnosed almost 3 years ago with an auto-immune fatal liver disease. After almost 3 years of following a ketogenic diet all of my blood work now for my liver is totally normal. My doctor says that just from the blood work of my liver function panel i no longer have this disease. Most people diagnosed with this live on average 8-10 years then die of total liver failure. It took almost 2 years to cure it. The liver can rebuild all of its cells in 500-550 days if you eat the right diet. Very low-carb moderate protein high fat. No sugar no soda(HFCS) no fruit. The production of fat takes place in the liver. All excess glucose(sugar) or excess carbs the liver converts to triglycerides(fatty acids). This clogs up the liver with this very sticky saturated fat. When you are insulin resistant your cells cannot use carbs for energy very well so most of your dietary intake clogs up the liver leading to this NAFLD. If you follow the ketogenic diet your insulin levels will fall and now your liver instead of being bogged down in having to make fat from excess carbs can start burning fat. And saturated dietary fat found in butter coconut oil is very different type of saturated fat then the saturated fat manufactured by the liver from excess carbs. And your body handles dietary sat fat very differently. He must have a very high fasting triglyceride level as your fasting triglyceride is a measure of the fats made by the liver. Not the dietary fat that you eat .Two different things.And he must also have a low HDL number and a high VLDL.. So yes the only way to cure fatty liver is with a very high fat diet very low carb!"

JessicaLCHF · August 2015

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/cirrhosis.html#.VdVk_UvenwI

The reason for this one is that the fatty liver can change to cirrhosis or cirrhotic scarring like it did my husband! Scary. He's been running a fever three weeks and elevated enzymes and we finally found out why. His liver is damaged.