Veggies - why do people keep saying we need (so many of) them?!
Options
Replies
-
Me too. Ppl don't like veggies??? Wha!??? Why!?!0
-
They taste so gross! Take so much effort to chew and offer so little calories as a reward.0
-
I reckon 2 year olds are smart. They hate veggies. I'm gonna a pretend to be 2. 99.9% of veggies taste yuck, feel gross in my mouth and do nothing for my digestive system. I'd rather starve than eat a green been.
I don't see why our bodies would set us up to value *kitten* that tastes like *kitten*.
I like avocados and I like mushrooms, a fruit and a fungus. I'll eat those.
Lol! Maybe it's genetic? I got in trouble all through early childhood for eating too many veggies from grandma's garden-- I'd eat all the carrots when they were tiny, and I'd eat a whole row of green beans if no one stopped me in time! I cried when I developed allergies to many veggies, I missed them!0 -
@fastforlife: 'traditional diets which were extremely healthy and many did not contain many veggies. Think Eskimos for example.'
Wikipedia with references: While it is not possible to cultivate native plants for food in the Arctic, the Inuit have traditionally gathered those that are naturally available[1][2][3][4][5][6][7] including: berries including crowberry and cloudberry
Herbaceous plants such as grasses, fireweed
tubers and stems including Mousefood, roots of various tundra plants which are cached by voles in underground burrows.
roots such as Tuberous Spring Beauty and Sweet Vetch
seaweed
Because the climate of the Arctic is ill-suited for agriculture and lacks forageable plant matter for much of the year, the traditional Inuit diet is lower in carbohydrates and higher in fat and animal protein compared to the global average. When carbohydrate intake is inadequate for total energy requirements, protein is broken down in the liver through gluconeogenesis and utilized as an energy source. Inuit studied in the 1970s were found to have abnormally large livers, presumably to assist in this process. Their urine volumes were also high, a result of the excess urea produced by gluconeogenesis.[9] However, in multiple studies the traditional Inuit diet has not been shown to be a ketogenic diet.[10][11][12][13] Not only have multiple researchers been unable to detect any evidence of ketosis resulting from the traditional Inuit Diet, but the ratios of fatty-acid to glucose were observed to be well below the generally accepted level of ketogenesis.[10][11][12][13]
Inuit actually consume more carbohydrates than most nutritionists have assumed.[14] Because Inuit frequently eat their meat raw and fresh, or freshly frozen, they can obtain more carbohydrates from their meat, as dietary glycogen, than Westerners can.[14][15] The Inuit practice of preserving a whole seal or bird carcass under an intact whole skin with a thick layer of blubber also permits some proteins to ferment, or hydrolyze, into carbohydrates.[14] Furthermore, the blubber, organs, muscle and skin of the marine mammals that the Inuit ate have significant glycogen stores which assist those animals when oxygen is depleted on prolonged dives.[16][17][18] For instance, when blubber is analyzed by direct carbohydrate measurements, it has been shown to contain as much as 8—30% carbohydrates.[17] While postmortem glycogen levels are often depleted through the onset of rigor mortis, marine mammals have a much delayed onset of rigor mortis, even in warm conditions, presumably due to the high content of oxymyoglobin in the muscle that may permit aerobic metabolism to continue slowly for some time after the death of the animal.[17][19] Additionally, in cold conditions, glycogen's depletion is halted at -18 °C (-0.4 °F) and lower temperatures in comminuted meat.[20][21]
Traditional Inuit diets derive approximately 50% of their calories from fat, 30-35% from protein and 15-20% of their calories from carbohydrates, largely in the form of glycogen from the raw meat they consumed.[22]
Vitamin C is obtained through sources such as caribou liver, kelp, whale skin, and seal brain; because these foods are typically eaten raw or frozen, the vitamin C they contain, which would be destroyed by cooking, is instead preserved.[26]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit_diet
0 -
I definitely eat more veggies, but it's still a valid question whether we need them. Fit_Goat should be along shortly.
Sometimes it seems people are different from each other
Our forum is good for respecting that.
I'm the only low carb person in my bike group. But I'm one of the better sprinters which seems to go against the notion one needs carbs for energy bursts
0 -
KittensMaster wrote: »
True for both physiology and for mindsets.
Some people theorize that the only reason we eat plants is because the plants tricked us into it so we would disperse their seeds. The sweet fructose is bait! And it's poisonous to both us and plants. The plants produce antioxidants to protect themselves from the poisonous fructose. The theory goes that we wouldn't need the antioxidants if we'd just stop eating the fructose.
I'm the only low carb person in my bike group. But I'm one of the better sprinters which seems to go against the notion one needs carbs for energy bursts
That's the beauty of fat-adaptation. It conserves glycogen for when you really need it. Those sugar eaters are probably running out of glycogen by the end of your sprint.
0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »I think FIT_Goat had some good arguments against veggies in another thread (too lazy to look for it), especially if you have allergies.
I was looking into fiber recently because of the mucus connection. Some low-carbers in Poland were getting GI cancers a few years ago. There was speculation that it might be due to low mucus production due to carb restriction.
Anyway, it turns out gut mucus production does need glucose, but it's also regulated by butyrate. Butyrate is a fermentation byproduct of, you guessed it, fiber.
This study gives additional mechanisms for cancer protection via dietary fiber:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3926973/
First, dietary fiber resists digestion in the small intestine, and enters the colon where it is fermented to produce SCFAs that may enhance the healthy composition of gut microbiota. Second, SCFAs have anticancer properties which include the promotion of cancer cell cycle arrest, apoptosis, and the inhibition of chronic inflammatory process and cancer cell migration/invasion in the colon. Importantly, these molecular activities are effective only within a certain physiological concentration range of the SCFAs. Third, dietary fiber increases fecal bulking and viscosity, reduces the time for proteolytic fermentation that results in harmful substances, and shortens the contact between potential carcinogens and mucosal cells. In addition, dietary fiber can bind/excrete potential luminal carcinogens (e.g., secondary bile acids), lower fecal pH in the colon, and thus provide a healthy intestinal environment.
Thanks for sharing -- you always post great stuff. This would be one for the potential downsides thread. I thought the colon cancer and fiber link was done and dusted but I see this article is from last year so perhaps not. I think the research into the gut biome is absolutely fascinating but I'm still skeptical of a lot of the conclusions that are being drawn but the research is certainly exciting.
I'm still of the opinion that some vegetables (and consequently fiber) are good but the more is better claims not compelling. But I also eat a fair amount of vegetables, fruits and try and include things like beans in my diet so that might account for my somewhat cavalier attitude -- even if there's more to it than I believe my bases are at least partially covered in this regard.
The fibre and BM argument doesn't seem to fit well with me. I was an undiagnosed celiac for close to four decades, and consequently I was constipated my entire life. I thought I was normal until I finally started to heal, and treated my hypothyroidism correctly, when I had normal BM's. I honestly thought I had D - I had no idea what normal was.
Eating LC or HF has made things move even better for me. Much better than the fibre supplements I used to take. It's surprising.
I don't doubt fibre is good for our intestinal health though. That's something to keep in mind. 0 -
I reckon 2 year olds are smart. They hate veggies. I'm gonna a pretend to be 2. 99.9% of veggies taste yuck, feel gross in my mouth and do nothing for my digestive system. I'd rather starve than eat a green been.
I don't see why our bodies would set us up to value *kitten* that tastes like *kitten*.
I like avocados and I like mushrooms, a fruit and a fungus. I'll eat those.
Lol! Maybe it's genetic? I got in trouble all through early childhood for eating too many veggies from grandma's garden-- I'd eat all the carrots when they were tiny, and I'd eat a whole row of green beans if no one stopped me in time! I cried when I developed allergies to many veggies, I missed them!
Could be not genetic but maybe upbringing. My mom always kept an acre garden (victory garden). Silver queen corn, bush beans, sugar snap peas, carrots, pumpkins, strawberries, asparagus, beets, lettuce, spinach, etc! We sold excess at a local farmers market which were some of some fond childhood memories as well as my first job running the welcome table (free coffee and cheap donuts).
Me and my brother would dress up like Indians (sorry I know that's not pc today) and crawl around the garden on our bellies "stealing" veggies from the "wicked villagers" (my mom, weeding) taking care not to be caught. Then we ate them raw and unwashed (she was into organic gardening) in the teepee (treehouse).
As kids my mom allowed us each one veggie we could skip (mine was beets, not cause I didn't like them but they did weird color things to my, ummm, waste) and my brothers was onions. We had two veggies every night at dinner. The only veggie I don't like to this day is spaghetti squash. But maybe that's cause mom never grew it?0 -
@cheesy567, I'm truly sorry for your allergy!
0 -
I reckon 2 year olds are smart. They hate veggies. I'm gonna a pretend to be 2. 99.9% of veggies taste yuck, feel gross in my mouth and do nothing for my digestive system. I'd rather starve than eat a green been.
I don't see why our bodies would set us up to value *kitten* that tastes like *kitten*.
I like avocados and I like mushrooms, a fruit and a fungus. I'll eat those.
0 -
Babies are smart. They seem to eat only what their body needs at the time. I remeber my son refused to take cough medicines and would throw up ect. Then the study came out that cough syrups were bad for you. I listen to my body not other people. My complexion is clearing my nails are growing and I am happier.0
-
Babies aren't always smart, lol. I used to eat until I puked it up, didn't have an 'off switch.' But I was Mom's first and she just thought I was hungry....0
-
Babies that are weaned BLW style will usually eat pretty sensibly, I think it's when you traditional wean and especially at a very young age (like all of us would have been) that you find they could eat 'too much'. Mush comimg toward mouth on spoon and adult encouraging them to keep eating till it's all gone seems to make babies eat much more in the way of solids.
I do like some raw veg, unfortunately it's probably all too sweet for keto.0 -
Unfortunately for me, this was at the milk stage from day 1, not weaning stage. I actually did better at the weaning stage, stopped when I had had enough.Babies that are weaned BLW style will usually eat pretty sensibly, I think it's when you traditional wean and especially at a very young age (like all of us would have been) that you find they could eat 'too much'. Mush comimg toward mouth on spoon and adult encouraging them to keep eating till it's all gone seems to make babies eat much more in the way of solids.
I do like some raw veg, unfortunately it's probably all too sweet for keto.
0 -
-
I had a nice hunk of beef brisket with one of these grilled
It was good
But the brisket was the main attraction
0 -
Yummy fermented seal blubber and fermented bird meat! Good article thank you.canadjineh wrote: »The Inuit practice of preserving a whole seal or bird carcass under an intact whole skin with a thick layer of blubber also permits some proteins to ferment, or hydrolyze, into carbohydrates.[14] Furthermore, the blubber,
I will add if people are not eating veggies they should at least be consuming meat and dairy products from animals who are raised outside in sunlight, eating grass and veggies - thereby having a secondary source of the benefits of vegetables. In other words dump the industrial raised meat - it is really really bad.
0 -
KittensMaster wrote: »I had a nice hunk of beef brisket with one of these grilled
It was good
But the brisket was the main attraction
That looks delicious!0 -
fastforlife1 wrote: »
Yummy fermented seal blubber and fermented bird meat! Good article thank you.canadjineh wrote: »The Inuit practice of preserving a whole seal or bird carcass under an intact whole skin with a thick layer of blubber also permits some proteins to ferment, or hydrolyze, into carbohydrates.[14] Furthermore, the blubber,
I will add if people are not eating veggies they should at least be consuming meat and dairy products from animals who are raised outside in sunlight, eating grass and veggies - thereby having a secondary source of the benefits of vegetables. In other words dump the industrial raised meat - it is really really bad.
This is a common assertion that has failed to live up to the hype. Commercially raised beef is as healthy and good for you are grass finished beef. Among those who subsist entirely on meat, many have tested the idea of grass-fed and other trends of animal raising. They haven't found any benefit. In some cases, there is reason to believe the things people promote as better for you (like eggs from vegetarian fed chickens) are actually worse nutritionally.
In the end, even the most ardent meat eater is at the end of a food chain that started with plants and sunlight. It might have been several steps away, but the energy came from plants at some point.
I don't do grass-fed beef unless it's been reduced in price to be cheaper than the commercially raised stuff. I won't buy vegetarian-fed eggs even if they are cheaper than commercial ones. Lamb is always grass-fed and finished.
Edit: And, if you're interested in fermented/pro-biotic raw meats, I can point you in the direction of people I know who intentionally rot raw meat for months before consuming it. It's not something I've progressed towards, but it isn't unheard of. It won't be seal blubber, but it could be bird meat or any other animal you can get your hands on.0 -
News Flash: I saw a really cool new veggie at the farmer's market today, Kale, I have to try it. With all those curly edges it should hold butter very well. 0
