Keto vs LC question.
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@knitormiss Also, what about an apple scented/lightly flavored peanut butter fat bomb? Or is it the crunch factor?
--I had 1/2 c of apple no skin yesterday. Made me so ILL, I doubt I will never eat another apple again. I don't think it was the crunch, just the variety.
@2poufs- I appreciate the advice of moving the carbs up/down by 5 every 10 days. Are your carbs net ot total and do you eat veggies/fruits at all?
@greenautumn17-can't do apple peels, they make me gag.
@kittensmaster- I wish I could work out like a maniac, but due to a bulging disc in lower back, walking is the most I can do right now. I'm going to try to get my bike out this weekend... It's low impact, so should not be too bad.0 -
@foamroller, it's dangerous to disagree with you because you're usually right.
And you're right that "fat adaptation" is understudied. I've wanted to write up a rough timeline and enumerate the adaptations, but there's very little information or agreement about what actually happens.
The best metric we have of FA is RQ (respiratory quotient) that tells us how much fat we're oxidizing by measuring the ratio of exhaled CO2 to inhaled O2. Kevin Hall, the guy who did the recent controversial low-fat vs low-carb metabolic chamber study, has also measured RQ for longer-term (over 30 days) fasting.
In the fasting case, fat oxidation maxed out in 3 days. In the "low-carb" case, it took about 6 days. His "low-carb" study was at 140g/day. So, maximal "fat burning mode" seems to happen as soon as you burn through the liver's glycogen supply.
But people say it takes something like 4 weeks for fat adaptation and that you feel like crap until that happens.
And that's about how long it takes for the kidneys to adapt to high blood ketone levels. That's how long it takes for uric acid levels to drop back down to normal. So that's probably when the kidneys stop dumping so much ketoacid and sodium. And we all know it's the sodium flux that makes us feel good or bad on this diet.
There's other stuff that happens, too. But by far the most interesting is the increased mitochondrial biogenesis, and that seems to require intense exercise.0 -
carimiller7391 wrote: »@knitormiss Also, what about an apple scented/lightly flavored peanut butter fat bomb? Or is it the crunch factor?
--I had 1/2 c of apple no skin yesterday. Made me so ILL, I doubt I will never eat another apple again. I don't think it was the crunch, just the variety.
@2poufs- I appreciate the advice of moving the carbs up/down by 5 every 10 days. Are your carbs net ot total and do you eat veggies/fruits at all?
@greenautumn17-can't do apple peels, they make me gag.
@kittensmaster- I wish I could work out like a maniac, but due to a bulging disc in lower back, walking is the most I can do right now. I'm going to try to get my bike out this weekend... It's low impact, so should not be too bad.
Do you have a back support/compression binder? Bike riding is VERY HARD on the lower back without support, and since like me, it sounds like your core is weak, this will likely hurt A LOT... I'd definitely look into some kind of support...0 -
ugh, no.. no back support.0
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Just be clear, the fat adaptation experienced by athletes is really just a benefit for athletes. It's not a weight loss thing, but it helps conserve glycogen for endurance events, and it may also help with high-altitude exercise.
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My carbs are net, as those are the ones I have to work off. The fiber takes care of itself.0
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Hey @carimiller7391, playing around with the recipies can add that variety you may feel you are missing. There are too many websites with different LCHF recipies to list, but I recommend finding one, or more, that use the foods you like in different ways. It's not always fun eating the same thing all the time for some of us (we can't all be like Fit_Goat, lol!)and boredom can set in. Look for any new way to cook the food you like in different ways. Hang in there! We all have to adjust things at times!
@Wab and Kitt, interesting discussion regarding the cellular level of fat burning! I am thankful for the educational information you provide that helps us understand how this woe works!
LOL, I saw how you used @ for everyone but me. Trying to sneak that past me, huh?
It's true, though. Few people can be happy with the lack of variety that I find pleasant. I treat my body like a dog when it comes to food. Not in a bad way, I love my dogs very much. I just mean, I prefer to feed my dogs food that is right for them even if it's not very exciting. They rarely get treats and even those aren't really bad for them. For example, I might give them some bacon or steak as a treat but I wouldn't give them chocolate or grapes--which can both be harmful. I treat myself the same way. I might treat myself with some ribeye or a different type of meat. I might even add seasoning. But, the more likely something is to be bad for me, the less likely it makes my treat list.
I am a very boring person.0 -
Along the same lines, FITGoat, I find that if I stick to the same meals, I stay on the WOL better than if I change up what I eat all the time. The kids might get bored, but that's where they can add in different veggies or sides, LOL! I "usually" have a BPC in the AM or whenever I decide to break a fast, later I have a salad with lots of OO, dinner is a fatty meat sometimes with a vegetable, but mostly just with butter or oil. The less I have to think about food the better!
(My kids are 25, 21, and 14 so they can fend for themselves if they don't like what I make for dinner.)0 -
Maybe there are 2 Bode Millers?!?
'Skier Bode Miller won our hearts in the 2002 Olympics in Salt Lake City, and again in the 2010 Olympic Games in Vancouver. But he also won five Olympic medals as well, all while being a strict vegetarian. In fact, Bode Miller has been vegetarian since birth, and is a leading advocate for sustainable organic farming.' Sorry couldn't provide the link but you get the idea.
Then again, maybe at 36 he is using HBOT during training since the portable units have become mainstream for athletes. HBOT(hyper basic oxygen therapy) aids in quicker recovery during training. He may also have resorted to what cyclists do, which is doping(research Armstrong and Landis as examples). While I'm sure as elite athletes age they look for any edge I'm not so sure their diet whether it is keto or vegetarian plays a role other then opportunity. Opportunity equalling endorsements not 'an edge'.0 -
Maybe if I buy and make more steaks, meats, chicken and have more variety during the week.... would help greatly.0
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It may just be an age/health thing but eating an 8 oz steak can knock me out ketosis sometimes so I really have to keep my protein low or the resulting glucose will dent my ketone production.0
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I'm a little like @FIT_Goat in that some of my meals are exactly the same. I season Flounder exactly the same way every time. Same for lamb. I pick up some variety with the other meats and seafood. I like the variety of seasonings, but I could eat lamb and beef every day and be just fine. You kinda have to find your groove and then don't worry about being in it once you finally find it!0
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No @Fit_Goat, it wasn't there since that wasn't stated to you directly. Not intended that way, at all! I am still meativore and love it, though have been trying higher carb things maybe once a week (by higher carb I mean cauliflower or mushrooms, definitely not bread or sugar) and am learning how food affects me.0
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As far as low impact exercise goes, I cannot recommend swimming highly enough. If at all possible, find somewhere with a pool (or outdoors if there's anywhere close by) that you can swim in a few times a week. Swimming is super low impact because the water helps support your joints and body. It burns tons of calories while easing up the wear and tear considerably. And even if you cant swim or laps sound boring, just treading water and splashing around and having fun is going to burn beaucoup calories. Sparkpeople.com estimates that 30 minutes of treading water for someone your weight burns almost 700 calories.0
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Sigh...I miss swimming. No "free" pools around here, and no money to join a club.0
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No @Fit_Goat, it wasn't there since that wasn't stated to you directly. Not intended that way, at all! I am still meativore and love it, though have been trying higher carb things maybe once a week (by higher carb I mean cauliflower or mushrooms, definitely not bread or sugar) and am learning how food affects me.
LOL, I was just poking at you. I thought it was funny. I knew what you were doing.
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I thought it was funny too! :-)0
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So I tried something new this weekend.... I made chicken thighs with Pesto 1g carb, 1g fiber.. net 0. Absolutely delish. I am stuck on a green bean kick though. I LOVE fresh green beans with lots of butter. I also made almond flour pancakes. VERY VERY filling for 2 small pancakes. Adding just those few things seemed to help the food rut I felt like I was in.
I also tried making sugar free walnut truffles. UGH... GROSS0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »It may just be an age/health thing but eating an 8 oz steak can knock me out ketosis sometimes so I really have to keep my protein low or the resulting glucose will dent my ketone production.
You're getting the wrong steak, then! Trade that sirloin in for a nice, fatty, ribeye or prime rib. 0
