Back at it

3furballs
3furballs Posts: 476 Member
edited 12:09AM in Social Groups
So I got down to 143 in march and then crept back up to 148. Probably a combo of birthday parties, summer beer and menopause. Panicked and cut calories to 1500. No change after 3 weeks so now I am gradually increasing and I'm currently at 1800. In the mean time I for a polar h7 heart rate monitor and how to be able to work out an accurate TDEE. I wore it for my double workout this morning and meant to leave it on for most of the day, but took it off after class. So I will try wearing it all day Monday. Not sure how accurate the calorie burn is on a kettlebell workout though. It dais I burned 736 calories from 7:45-10 which is a 45 minute kettlebell class, 10 of those a stretch and warm up and then 60 Kickboxing class, 10 a warmup stretch and 15 resistance training and there was a15 minute break between.

One small change I've made is having a protein shake in the morning. Trading to get to my protein goal every day.

So wish me luck and pass on any thoughts or ideas please!

Replies

  • jaeone
    jaeone Posts: 649 Member
    Hi glad your back at it! Its a good idea to wear your HRM all day and then get an average from your polar after 2 weeks or so. Then figure out a 5-10% cut. But don't get to caught up on the burn numbers. Enjoy your workouts and focus on form, endurance, and getting stronger. You can also use this calculator from EM2WL while you complie your numbers from your polar. http://eatmore2weighless.com/weight-loss-calculator/
    Definetly continue to increase your protein intake. Try to get 30% of your calories from protein spread out in each meal.

    Good luck!
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Forget wearing the HRM all day if purpose is for estimating calorie burn for accurate TDEE.
    If curious about avg hr and what it does - then that might be useful if you can look at graph of whole day movement.

    But the formula for getting calories from HR is ONLY valid in the aerobic exercise HR zone, where you HR is actually pumping at certain speeds to supply the required oxygen to support oxidizing fat and carbs as energy source.

    Above anaerobic threshold lifting and intervals, and below aerobic exercise zone daily life - that formula doesn't apply.

    Normally you'll get inflated calorie burn on either end. And if not steady-state same HR for 2-4 min, even in the correct zone - more inflation.

    So don't read much in to wearing it all day, except a chance to see stats.
    But don't include calorie burn in there as having any accuracy.

    If it happens to match a guessed rough TDEE level from 5 - then I'd suggest wrong level was picked.

    You can read through the start of this Polar funded study to see all the references to the facts as I mentioned above.
    Link to study on this page.
    www.braydenwm.com/calburn.htm
  • 3furballs
    3furballs Posts: 476 Member
    Hey bales thanks so much, but I have to be honest, I don't understand some of what you said! I thought the hr monitors would give me a more accurate tdee so I can reset.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Nope.

    And you can easily fool them for calorie burn even for their intended purpose - steady-state HR in aerobic exercise.

    If it's hot and your body is attempting to help cool by pushing blood faster for cooling effect against skin - higher HR NOT related to working harder - ie, not more calorie burn.
    If you are dehydrated and heart must beat more to push the thicker blood to get the needed oxygen to where it's needed - higher HR NOT related to working the muscles more or burning more fuel.
    If you work out at steady pace on treadmill for long enough you'll get HR drift, a slow rising of the HR even though the work load is exactly the same burning the same calories - just because your body is becoming stressed from the exercise.

    There is never a situation where the HR is lower than needed - it's always "inflated" for what is really required, higher than it truly needs to be.

    Before your next kick boxing class, stand there like you would if you just had a bout with the bag and had your rest before next one.
    What is the HR required to supply the oxygen for the workload of standing there?
    Now do a session with the bag or whatever.
    Now stand again, what does the HR start at, and what does it finally drop to, before you start another session?
    Has your workload of standing there changed?
    After your last session, stand there and see how long it takes to get down to the actual HR required for the workload of standing there, based on original HR. You can stop at 5 min if it doesn't reach it in that time.

    HRM as a tool was designed for 1 thing - monitor your heart rate.

    The calorie thing was added later due to consumer survey's (thank's Polar) that indicated people want that over anything - so they took out many features of decent HRM (rather hid them), and gave calorie burn instead - and sold tons. So others jumped on the bandwagon for sales.

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/459580-polar-hrm-calorie-burn-estimate-accuracy-study
  • 3furballs
    3furballs Posts: 476 Member
    So then what is the most accurate way to get my tdee? I was hoping this would help since I walk to work, sit all day (mostly), walk home some days and work out most every night in some form or other. I want to figure out what my tdee would be, I thought this would be more accurate then the websites I've found as I'm never sure if I would put active, lightly active, moderate, etc.
  • 3furballs
    3furballs Posts: 476 Member
    I'm kind of thinking if the hr monitor isn't going to be helpful in estimating my tdee I should stop wearing it and return it!
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    3furballs wrote: »

    That's merely describing how you get the results the TDEE tables use.

    Order of potential accuracy.

    One of those rough 5 level TDEE tables based on 1919 study.

    4 - This which still uses those tables but at least gets the time right - http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1018770-better-rough-tdee-estimate-than-5-level-chart

    3 - This which at least incorporates daily and exercise activity together, and distinguishes different levels/types of each - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing

    2 - A daily activity tracker calibrated and used correctly - Some studies put it at 85% accuracy for the day, exercise depends on what it is.

    1 - And then some methods you'll never get done unless part of a research study.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    And you will NEVER get the TDEE exactly right - it's an estimate.

    You confirm you start on the high side though, and results give best estimate.

    If you slowly gain 1 lb over 2 weeks time - then you must have been eating 250 calories over true TDEE on average.
    Now it's a matter of how accurate your food logging is to add 250 to.
  • 3furballs
    3furballs Posts: 476 Member
    Ok, so I've filled in the form (sorry I think I sent a request to edit before I realized I could copy it).

    I'll re-read the info in this group as I need a brush up on my next steps.

    Thanks for all the help heybales
  • 3furballs
    3furballs Posts: 476 Member
    Well I've increased my calories to 1900 and will stay here for 2 weeks then up to 2000 . How long should I stay at 2000 before getting a cut?
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    I wouldn't even wait 2 weeks at 1900 - too slow increases - you did the major increases already that cause more glucose and water to be stored in the muscle - so that water weight gain is done if any happened without dropping stress water.

    You mentioned you were at 1500 for 3 weeks - but not what you were at prior, I'm guessing not logged accurately but slow weight increase showing more than TDEE?

    I'd say 1 week at 2000.

    Then the 2 week 250 test.
    Eat 2250 daily for 2 weeks.
    If 2000 is truly potential TDEE - you will gain 1 lb slowly over the entire time (depending on TOM obviously, so perhaps eat 2000 until timing is right).
    Doing weights - won't even be fat weight.

    If no gain - your body sped up even more and TDEE was higher.
    If more or faster - you still had slightly depleted glucose stores that finally topped off and TDEE is higher. Because if truly eating at TDEE and valid weigh-in day to minimize water weight fluctuations - there should be no glucose stores to top-off.
  • 3furballs
    3furballs Posts: 476 Member
    Ok, so I'll up my calories to 2000 then.

    Stay there until the end of the 23rd, then up to 2250 for two weeks and see what my weight is at, right?

    Part of my overall issue is that I don't have "TOM" for the most part, I'm pre-menopausal so it's messed up my hormones which is where I'm getting frustrated. From March - now I've gained 5lbs and from last Dec - Mar I gained 8lbs.

    Thanks so much for your help and patience.

    According to the chart you gave us, my TDEE is 2305 and my BMR is 1334.

    I try to be accurate logging, but I don't weigh my food (and won't, I don't want my kids, specially daughters, to obsess over food/weight from seeing me) so it may not always be accurate.
  • 3furballs
    3furballs Posts: 476 Member
    edited October 2015
    Well I've upped my calories to 2000 as of yesterday, from 1900 earlier this week and last week and today I'm up a pound from last Friday. Seems rather quick, though last weekend was thanksgiving. Guess I'll hold at 2000 until next Friday and then check.
  • KickboxDiva
    KickboxDiva Posts: 142 Member
    A pound is 3500 It's probably not a true gain.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Oh, 2300 estimated TDEE - not even there yet to attempt the 2 week 250 test.

    As Diva mentioned - always do the math.

    Let's pretend the 1900 was true potential TDEE, and so you spent some days eating 100 more than that.

    It would take 35 days to slowly put on 1 whole lb.
    Actually longer. That 3500 calories per lb of fat is when it's burned as energy source.
    When gaining, it actually takes more because some energy is used to process the food and the excess calories for storage as fat.
  • 3furballs
    3furballs Posts: 476 Member
    Another question. Should I scale back my workouts while I add calories or just leave it the same?
  • beastmode_kitty
    beastmode_kitty Posts: 844 Member
    I've learned the hard way that any gain on the scale is most likely water weight, especially if you had something high in sodium.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    3furballs wrote: »
    Another question. Should I scale back my workouts while I add calories or just leave it the same?

    You should always eat appropriately for your level of activity. Life lesson to be learned and applied.

    If trying to lose weight, that obviously means slightly less than you burn.

    If you can't eat enough to follow that rule, then you must do less.

    Or if a ton of stress hit from elsewhere, limited stress from exercise could be useful too - but the eating rule still applies.
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