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Protein and high Fasting Blood Glucose for Diabetics??

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fuelednfit
fuelednfit Posts: 177 Member
I calculated my proteins on the keto calculator. I should be eating between 67 to 111g, being lightly active I typically ate around 80g of protein on average.
Recently I noticed a trend. When I eat 75g and up of protein in a day, the next morning my fasting blood glucose is high, out of range and i feel it. When I eat between 45-60g (maybe below 75 would be good but I still have to test this), my next day fasting blood glucose is perfectly in range. This is for the same amount of carb, ie 40g total and 30g net.
Anyone else with similar experience?
45 to 60g of protein seemed low to me, especially that my last blood test showed low creatinine. So I am not sure what I am suppose to aim for. I really feel sick when my Blood glucose is around 7-8, I am currently reducing the proteins, to feel good, but my blood work were indicating that my diet might have already been low on protein.
How do those number look to you...the elders and exprerienced ketoers?

Replies

  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
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    @revertt2d that makes sense because half of protein can be converted to glucose.

    I had to ditch protein powder use and keep all protein down to 70 grams or less to prevent my fasting glucose level from going over 100 (I have got to master the conversion to metric) .
  • lithezebra
    lithezebra Posts: 3,670 Member
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    Yes. You can use amino acids to make glucose via gluconeogenesis. It's an expensive way to get carbs. What amount of protein is recommended for a person of your size, sex, and activity level? If your bg is fine on 60 grams, and that meets your recommended amount, you could aim for 60-70.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
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    My fasting BG is a pain to control. Higher protein definitely bumps it up. So does a late meal; it is worse if it has any carbs.

    Even if my carbs are below 50g per day, but above 30g, my FBG is back to prediabetic levels, especially if my protein is above 80g.... I hate the dawn phenomenom. :/

    If my carbs are low and protein and calories are moderate, I can keep FBG below 5.5.
  • fuelednfit
    fuelednfit Posts: 177 Member
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    OK thanks all great to know you all experienced this phenomenon. I repeated the experiment to again and got over 120 fbg with 77g of protein and below 95 when I had 57g. I will just try now to see how high I can go in protein without effect on my fbg.
    The conversion is easy you divide by 18 to get mmol/L.
    Thanks again for the input
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
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    Awww. I did it again yeterday. It was the Grey Cup (CFL championships) and I ate too much, and too much protein, even though it was keto.

    Up until 3:00 I only had a couple of bullet proof coffees. From 3:00 to 8:00 I ate 1/2 cup of pistachios, a LOT of cheese, pepperoni and kolbasa. I ate almost and entire ring of small shrimps on my own with a tsp- Tbs of a homemade ketchup/seafood sauce.

    This morning my FBG was 5.8, and an hour later after working out it was 5.9 (104 and 106). Back to prediabetic range. Boo. Way too much protein yesterday, and too much food in the evening.
  • lithezebra
    lithezebra Posts: 3,670 Member
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    @nvmomketo and @revertt2d, you're giving me an appreciation for how complicated diabetes really is, i.e. not just a matter of cutting back on carbs.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
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    lithezebra wrote: »
    @nvmomketo and @revertt2d, you're giving me an appreciation for how complicated diabetes really is, i.e. not just a matter of cutting back on carbs.

    I know, me too. Managing these health conditions seems like it would be a fulltime job.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    edited December 2015
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    tsazani wrote: »
    Eat to your meter. Some DM2 pts need to bump up their carbs and or protein macros to get their best BG levels. Don't forget regular exercise. It's so important.

    My problem is the dawn phenomenon. My fasting BG is ALWAYS higher than my evening BG, even if I just had a big bowl of nuts and coconut, or veggies in cheese dip before bed. It drives me batty. The only way to control my FBG seems to be to not eat after dinner, or if I do have something, to not eat much.

    My BG usually falls after breakfast or my BPC... a bit of mild reactive hypoglycemia too. LOL

    I'm working at getting the exercise to regular. I'm not quite there yet. Working on it though. :)
  • inspirationstation
    inspirationstation Posts: 209 Member
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    Add me to the DP group too. My FBS is the highest BS of my day.
  • norcogrrl
    norcogrrl Posts: 129 Member
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    I'm having a hard time getting my fasting glucose down (it is my highest reading of the day, but it isn't alarming). In my case, the amount of protein doesn't seem to be a big contributor. The issue appears to be gluconeogenesis due transient nighttime hypoglycaemia. A big serving of veg at supper (smothered in butter and cheese) seems to help a bit. Brussel sprouts seem to help the most. Adding protein to the meal doesn't make much difference either way.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
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    nvmomketo wrote: »
    tsazani wrote: »
    Eat to your meter. Some DM2 pts need to bump up their carbs and or protein macros to get their best BG levels. Don't forget regular exercise. It's so important.

    My problem is the dawn phenomenon. My fasting BG is ALWAYS higher than my evening BG, even if I just had a big bowl of nuts and coconut, or veggies in cheese dip before bed. It drives me batty. The only way to control my FBG seems to be to not eat after dinner, or if I do have something, to not eat much.

    My BG usually falls after breakfast or my BPC... a bit of mild reactive hypoglycemia too. LOL

    I'm working at getting the exercise to regular. I'm not quite there yet. Working on it though. :)

    The falling BG after eating is something I never checked until yesterday since I had an insurance exam this morning. Yesterday morning I was at 99 on waking and 79 after breakfast. This AM fasting BG was 90 and 30 minutes after breakfast it was 75. My blood work was drawn 1.5 hours after the 75 reading so in a couple weeks I will know my numbers from this round of testing.

    I am going to do some reading as to why/how eating a 1000 calorie plus breakfast can drop BG by 15-20 points.
  • Time2LoseWeightNOW
    Time2LoseWeightNOW Posts: 1,730 Member
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    norcogrrl wrote: »
    I'm having a hard time getting my fasting glucose down (it is my highest reading of the day, but it isn't alarming). In my case, the amount of protein doesn't seem to be a big contributor. The issue appears to be gluconeogenesis due transient nighttime hypoglycaemia. A big serving of veg at supper (smothered in butter and cheese) seems to help a bit. Brussel sprouts seem to help the most. Adding protein to the meal doesn't make much difference either way.


    I have this issue , too... dawn phenomenon.... after reading your post, it makes me think I may try to eat my carbs at night , to see if it will help..... I was trying to eat mostly proteins, but it wasn't helping , thanks for your post. : )
  • wtskinner
    wtskinner Posts: 178 Member
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    lithezebra wrote: »
    @nvmomketo and @revertt2d, you're giving me an appreciation for how complicated diabetes really is, i.e. not just a matter of cutting back on carbs.

    I've been dealing with it for a while, and it is way more complicated than I ever want anything to be. I'm finding that even though I'm losing weight and having lower blood sugars on a < 50g carb a day diet, that I never get a keytone reading over .4. I'm making adjustments, like reducing carbs to 25 and trying to drop protein to 80 while increasing fat to see if I can get there, because from everything I'm reading, my results would be even better if I were. I'll try to update on my results.
  • lithezebra
    lithezebra Posts: 3,670 Member
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    wtskinner wrote: »
    lithezebra wrote: »
    @nvmomketo and @revertt2d, you're giving me an appreciation for how complicated diabetes really is, i.e. not just a matter of cutting back on carbs.

    I've been dealing with it for a while, and it is way more complicated than I ever want anything to be. I'm finding that even though I'm losing weight and having lower blood sugars on a < 50g carb a day diet, that I never get a keytone reading over .4. I'm making adjustments, like reducing carbs to 25 and trying to drop protein to 80 while increasing fat to see if I can get there, because from everything I'm reading, my results would be even better if I were. I'll try to update on my results.

    Are your blood glucose readings in the healthy range on <50 g carbs?
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
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    norcogrrl wrote: »
    I'm having a hard time getting my fasting glucose down (it is my highest reading of the day, but it isn't alarming). In my case, the amount of protein doesn't seem to be a big contributor. The issue appears to be gluconeogenesis due transient nighttime hypoglycaemia. A big serving of veg at supper (smothered in butter and cheese) seems to help a bit. Brussel sprouts seem to help the most. Adding protein to the meal doesn't make much difference either way.

    It's amazing how it is so different for everybody! Life would be easier if we were all the same and we came with manuals...
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    tsazani wrote: »
    Eat to your meter. Some DM2 pts need to bump up their carbs and or protein macros to get their best BG levels. Don't forget regular exercise. It's so important.

    My problem is the dawn phenomenon. My fasting BG is ALWAYS higher than my evening BG, even if I just had a big bowl of nuts and coconut, or veggies in cheese dip before bed. It drives me batty. The only way to control my FBG seems to be to not eat after dinner, or if I do have something, to not eat much.

    My BG usually falls after breakfast or my BPC... a bit of mild reactive hypoglycemia too. LOL

    I'm working at getting the exercise to regular. I'm not quite there yet. Working on it though. :)

    The falling BG after eating is something I never checked until yesterday since I had an insurance exam this morning. Yesterday morning I was at 99 on waking and 79 after breakfast. This AM fasting BG was 90 and 30 minutes after breakfast it was 75. My blood work was drawn 1.5 hours after the 75 reading so in a couple weeks I will know my numbers from this round of testing.

    I am going to do some reading as to why/how eating a 1000 calorie plus breakfast can drop BG by 15-20 points.

    I did a oral glucose tolerance test (OGTT) a while back for a separate issue and discovered I was mildly hypogylcemic. My FBG was a 6 (106 yucky) then went up to a 9 (162 eek) about 30-60 minutes after the glucose drink - can't remember which. Then my bg started to fall and within 2 hours it was down around a 4 (72) and still falling. They made me eat and kept me longer before they would let me leave beacsue it wasn't slowing down.

    So I was a 6 then a 9 then a 4 (106 to 162 to 72) in a 2 hour window. No wonder I used to get the shakes if I didn't eat every couple of hours.

    It happens much less frequently now that I'm in ketosis. Actually, it is rare and it is usually following a "high" carb meal or day (over 30g of carbs in a day).
    wtskinner wrote: »
    lithezebra wrote: »
    @nvmomketo and @revertt2d, you're giving me an appreciation for how complicated diabetes really is, i.e. not just a matter of cutting back on carbs.

    I've been dealing with it for a while, and it is way more complicated than I ever want anything to be. I'm finding that even though I'm losing weight and having lower blood sugars on a < 50g carb a day diet, that I never get a keytone reading over .4. I'm making adjustments, like reducing carbs to 25 and trying to drop protein to 80 while increasing fat to see if I can get there, because from everything I'm reading, my results would be even better if I were. I'll try to update on my results.

    I found lowering my protein helps keep me in ketosis too, but the only way I get a moderate ketostix reading is if I have eaten very low calories (~500kcal) along with a very LCHF diet in a day. I only do that once or maybe twice a week though. Today was moderate because I didn't eat much but the day before it was negative on a 2000 kcal <20g of carb day.

    Confusing.