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Too shy to say
Fin1965
Posts: 19 Member
Hello, I asked people here a week ago about my blood results which said my cholesterol levels and all the other fats (sorry not very technical terms!) were off the scale. I said I was very scared about this, that the doctor had underlined all this with a big red pen and suggested I went on statins. I'm not a very forthright person but I do NOT want to go on those tablets. I didn't feel 'strong' enough to tell him I was on a keto woe, that I'm sure the numbers would go down after a period on this woe, nor did I feel knowledgable enough to discuss evidence etc, weak I know but I'm not all that assertive I'm afraid. You kindly said that my blood test results weren't bad after I put them on the forum, I do believe you and I am grateful. My problems are that I don't particularly understand what you said,(but I'm glad you thought the levels were OK), and I don't want to bug this doctor going backward and forward for blood tests even if he allowed me to do this as I'd be embarrassed and would feel I was wasting his time, and the numbers wouldn't mean much to me anyway. I would just like to be reassured that I won't have a heart attack, that this woe isn't hurting me or any suggestions on if there is a method of eating just say olive oil as a good fat, no cream or cheese such like and lean meat and or fish or any method of remaining in keto but getting me in a safe range? I don't know if I'm explaining myself properly, but I hope someone may have some suggestions. Thank you very much
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Read the book Cholesterol Clarity by Jimmy Moore and Dr. Westman, I think it is. It explains a lot of how we've been mislead to believe that cholesterol and fats are the causes of heart attacks and such. It explains it plainly.
Yes, there are always other options, but your body needs saturated fats. If you don't feed it to your body, it converts them, etc. Trying to trick your body doesn't work. It will make what it needs or convert it, even if medical science does not agree.
Hugs and be patient. LDL and total cholesterol levels are not accurate on tests until your weight has been steady 6 plus months. Anything else, and your burned fat is going to release and process a whole lot of mess...skewing the results.0 -
I really think the only way you will feel comfortable is the develop at least a basic understanding of cholesterol in general. So that you can ask for the test results and it won't look like a foreign language to you.
I was in this same boat just a couple of months ago when my 21 year old Type 1 Diabetic daughter was told that her cholesterol was a bit high and needed to eat lower fat (which would obviously result in higher carbs and makes no sense to me for a T1D). Anyway, I spent some time reading Peter Attia's website and listening to pod casts by Jimmy Moore on the subject and also asked questions here and I now have a basic understanding and feel confident that lowering carbs and avoiding fake fats will be the better choice for her.
I don't think anyone can really "tell you" not to worry and all will be fine, but if you read up on the information from those two sources, I think you will find the peace of mind you are looking for.
And don't forget, your doctor works for you. It's ok to say you don't quite understand the test and would feel more comfortable if you understood cholesterol better. That all you basically know is that there are different sizes of the "bad" and that part of that total number is from the "good". It doesn't make sense to hold a decent "good" count against someone. And eating healthy fats (animal, coconut, olive oil) can help make more of the good.
Taking those meds lowers both the good and the bad and of course comes with other possible negative side effects. If he doesn't understand your apprehension about taking it, he's not trying to.0 -
http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2013/08/27/book-review-cholesterol-clarity/
Here is a book review for Cholesterol Clarity which gives a little bit of information which may make you feel better and less worried about things!0 -
I'd go back in 6mths and get another blood test done to compare. By this time you would have learned a lot and be better able to read the results
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@Fin1965 I have bloodwork done every 3 months. 11 months into eating this way, my numbers just keep improving. However, every single person is different. Different foods affect each one of us in different ways. That being said, I agree that your doctor WORKS for you, not the other way around. If he is not taking the time to actually talk to you, and explain these things you need a new doctor. Please don't start a new medication with a dozen side effects just because he said so. Do your own research or get a second opinion. You are in charge of your life and your health. You must be your own advocate.
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FIN--listen to this new Podcast by ketoevangilast..
the FIRST time a medical Dr. talks about Saturated fats, and why they DO NOT cause cholesterol issues OR Heart Disease …and she gives good info, easy to understand…listen to it 2-3 times and take notes.. also MOST medical staff STILL BELIEVE and BLAME saturated fats-- the KEEP connecting fats to heart disease and cholesterol…
My experienced Urology Nurse Practitioner went on and on about it..I was SHOCKED she had not read ANY NEW info available for a decade??? NOPE..she and MOST traditional medical pros still buy into the LOW FAT diet, and fats are not safe to eat….
they will push veggie oil- Canola, corn, safflower..which ALL PROMOTE INFLAMMATION, makes it worse for us.
I had to walk out of my urology appt. and just say nothing as I did NOT agree to eat corn oil, or carbs or the rest of the nonsense she believes and TEACHES to her vulnerable patients..that really torques me..giving bad info to sick patients!!! who trust her!!!
https://www.ketovangelist.com/episode-34-dr-trudi-deakin-talks-about-the-importance-of-saturated-fat/
Good luck..from what I learned your LDL may go up a small amount, but the good HDL will too with fats…. they HAVE to test for the 'right' ldl..(good big & fluffy, vs small dense) components to know if there is any issue.
you also have the right NOT to take these,,and as long as you dont eat processed carbs and veggie oils your number should improve over time..ASK your Doc for 4-6 months of diet change time.0 -
If this is your baseline lipid panel, lifestyle intervention is recommended first. After 6 weeks of lifestyle intervention, should your LDL-C be > 200mg/dL, then "statins" would be appropriate. In this case, benefits of HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors ("statins") outweigh the risks...a 10mg dose equivalency of atorvastatin will generally decrease LDL-C 30-40%....just don't have him/her jump the gun and MAX out your dose out of the gates...that would only be appropriate post myocardial infarction.
I wouldn't be paranoid about "statin" side effects....the news often gives them a bad rap & claims anecdotal case reports as being typical for side effects with no cause and effect studied....yet fail to report on pleiotrophic benefits of "statins" and risk reduction of major cardiovascular events. Dementia/impaired cognition is more strongly associated with anticholinergics, not anti-hyperlipidemic meds.0 -
Keep in mind, no general practice measures LDL or HDL subtypes...that's only done in research settings, hence most physicians can't distinguish atherogenic LDL-C from non-atherogenic LDL-C ("fluffy"...lol cholesterol protein transporter)0
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Thank you for your responses, the doctor wrote the prescription for orvarez 10/20 but I haven't got the prescription filled.....yet! I'm really not sure whether to continue this woe, I really do feel well on it. If I continue this woe but am taking statins to reduce the ldl whilst not knowing which particle type it is, it seems counter productive?? Although I have to decide myself,...what would you do?0
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I would do more testing and not worry about cholesterol levels while losing weight. Cholesterol being linked to heart disease is a really really weak link. I wouldn't be concerned unless your triglycerides were super high and you were not trying to lose weight. JMO0
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Repeat after me: doctors are not gods.
You're paying them to do a job. You're paying them to provide their expertise and educated opinion.
But
They only see you for a tiny fraction of your life. And, they basically get paid piecemeal, so it's in their financial interest to spend as little time with you as humanly possible. They're also discouraged from running tests (thanks insurance companies).
But
When it comes down to it, you're the one paying, one way or another, be it your cash, your health, out even your life. When you realize and accept this, you'll be better able to talk to your doctor about things and be your own patient advocate.
In my opinion, don't take the meds until you've had tests done that confirm that you're actually at risk, and you've had followup testing done to see whether this was a one-time thing or if there's a trend.Thank you for your responses, the doctor wrote the prescription for orvarez 10/20 but I haven't got the prescription filled.....yet! I'm really not sure whether to continue this woe, I really do feel well on it. If I continue this woe but am taking statins to reduce the ldl whilst not knowing which particle type it is, it seems counter productive?? Although I have to decide myself,...what would you do?
Would you walk blindfolded into a room in which you've never been, with no form of guidance as to what's there? You have no idea if there's a gaping hole in the middle, or if it's full of dressers, or completely empty.
You'd need more information before you'd feel comfortable continuing, would you not?
Why doesn't the same apply to medication?
Go back to your doctor, tell him you're not comfortable taking the meds without more information and more data. Request the direct LDL particle measurements (have a look through the archives and in the Launch Pad, there are several threads that go into great detail about what tests to request that provide better information and what the information means).
To better understand it, yourself, I recommend checking out Dr. Peter Attia's The Straight Dope on Cholesterol series -- http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the-straight-dope-on-cholesterol-part-i -- it's long, in depth, and in some places a bit heavy, but it's a fantastic resource to provide some understanding into the role of cholesterol. While you're at it, check out his video on the politics of nutrition in the US -- https://player.vimeo.com/video/45485034 -- as well as his other talks that he has.0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »Read the book Cholesterol Clarity by Jimmy Moore and Dr. Westman, I think it is. It explains a lot of how we've been mislead to believe that cholesterol and fats are the causes of heart attacks and such. It explains it plainly.
Yes, there are always other options, but your body needs saturated fats. If you don't feed it to your body, it converts them, etc. Trying to trick your body doesn't work. It will make what it needs or convert it, even if medical science does not agree.
Hugs and be patient. LDL and total cholesterol levels are not accurate on tests until your weight has been steady 6 plus months. Anything else, and your burned fat is going to release and process a whole lot of mess...skewing the results.
Ditto this ^^^^^^^. Once you read a few "easy to read" chapters OR read the summaries at the end of the chapters, your mind will be settled.
I will stress this though, DO NOT GO ON STATINS!!!!!! I was on them for years, and have had some permanent memory loss!!!! After you read that book, you would NEVER go on that drug. It has terrible side effects. A low carb hi fat diet is the best thing for your heart and arteries.
Also note, that during the pendency of losing weight on the LCHF diet, your cholesterol will look WORSE before it gets better. This is a normal response. READ the BOOK. When you finish it, give it to your doctor.
Keep calm and Keto on!
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
Keto / The Recipe Water Fasting / E.A.S.Y. Exercise Program0 -
Thanks a million for the responses, I really get what you're saying, I'm going to get the suggested book and just read and read! I do feel like doctors are gods and I must do everything they say without question. I do feel proud of myself for not taking the statins as instructed, very rebellious for me!! So a change in mindset for me. I'm about 5 foot 4 and weigh ten stone ten so I'm only looking at about a 12 pound loss to feel ok, but more than anything this woe makes me feel as if I'm not chained to food and the thoughts of it, I'm in control rather than it having a huge hold over me. Again, thank you for the info.0
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Oh this will sound the most stupid question and I guess you're going to say everyone's different, because they are,...but is there a ball park time figure on how long these levels take to come down, am I looking at months or years?? Thank you again!!0
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Oh this will sound the most stupid question and I guess you're going to say everyone's different, because they are,...but is there a ball park time figure on how long these levels take to come down, am I looking at months or years?? Thank you again!!
As I recall, it's about 6 months after your weight stabilizes for your numbers to adjust themselves.
Basically, it happens because you're actively losing weight, so your body is tapping into its fat stores at a relatively accelerated rate. This releases toxins and other gunk that was stored in the fat when it was created, so part of that number is the fat itself being mobilized and part of it is the body responding (as it should) to deal with the crap that came along with the stored fat. Once you've stopped releasing that much fat all the time, your body readjusts back down to the "normal" level.0 -
Brilliant, thanks for the response, now back to reading about it all!!0
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Oh this will sound the most stupid question and I guess you're going to say everyone's different, because they are,...but is there a ball park time figure on how long these levels take to come down, am I looking at months or years?? Thank you again!!
Exactly what Dragonwolf said.... although my bloodwork got better before that (I'm still losing weight) ~ and without the use of drugs. In other words, I'm already better off now, by losing the weight, doing Keto, ~ than I was before on many drugs:
How I got Off of Diabetic Prescriptions Drugs Since I Started Keto Updated
DittoDan's Blood Work Results 6-18-2015
Another thing about cholesterol... it heals your cells. Therefore, your cholesterol will go higher if you have inflamation in your body. Off the top of my head...after reading the book.... if you go to the doctor to draw the blood for the tests, make sure that:
1) You didn't do any strenuous exercise a few days before the test
2) You're not sick days before the test
3) You're don't have things like paredontal gum disease
4) You're not water fasting
5) You're not under a heavy load of stress, anxiety, depression ~ before the test
6) _________________ (fill in blank) other maladies that cause pain in your body
All of the above affects your cholesterol. If you read the book, testing the lipid panel (cholesterols) is NOT a good marker for health. The book explains other tests that are far more reliable markers/tests for artery/heart health.
BTW, I don't even get my blood work checked anymore for the above reasons. Waste of time.
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
Blog #10 Keto: Abbreviations, Acronyms & Terminology Used on the LCD & Keto
Well Meaning Diet Advice Given to You ~ That is Just Plain Wrong!
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Hi dan the man, thank you for you latest input. I have private healthcare but can't just keep asking the doctor for all these tests, he just won't agree to it. I am dreading the 30th when I have to go back and see him about my iron levels which are very low even with taking iron tablets which he prescribed, when he'll ask me if I am taking the statins he prescribed and when I say no he'll not be very happy as I've kind of 'gone against his knowledge' (as he sees it) or advice. I haven't told him about this woe as he'll just think I'm stupid and making matters worse with the high fat intake. I live in a little village and finding a doctor who is open minded in these matters is near impossible, soooooo I'm not going to bother with the high levels that had me so worried and just continue, fool hardy maybe but from what you, others and my limited reading on the subject so far, I'm going to pop my clogs with worry rather than high cholesterol levels!! Thanks for taking the time to respond.0
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A little over a year ago I had over the top levels too, my doctor suggested to me that if I wanted to try to correct this with natural products and diet she would suggest Red Yeast Rice. I tried that (without diet change) and when I went back for a check up the numbers had dropped significantly. I certainly can't promise you the same results ... but it sure worked for me! Now that I've found Keto maybe I can reverse some of the other problems I have. Good Luck0
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my iron levels which are very low even with taking iron tablets which he prescribed
Do you eat grains? Try dropping them if you are. I was very anemic for a long time (like, on the verge of getting iron injections when my doctor first found it), despite something like 400% iron intake some days (I tracked it once). Since dropping grains, even before going full LCHF, my iron levels bounced back without supplementation. It takes a couple of months for them to fully come back, and if you don't eat a lot of red meat (or high-iron non-meat sources with a lot of vitamin C) it's still good to supplement for a while.
Also, are you supplementing calcium? If so, that might be contributing to your anemia. Calcium inhibits iron absorption. If you're doing it to prevent osteoporosis, you're probably better off ensuring your vitamin D levels are good, and your K2 intake is adequate, and that you're partaking in weight-bearing exercises (even just stuff like dumbbell lunges or single-legged squats are sufficient), as these things are at least as important as calcium for preventing osteoporosis. K2 is a big one, too, as it makes sure calcium goes where it's supposed to. If you really still want to intake a bunch of calcium, make sure it's not at the same time as the iron.when he'll ask me if I am taking the statins he prescribed and when I say no he'll not be very happy as I've kind of 'gone against his knowledge' (as he sees it) or advice. I haven't told him about this woe as he'll just think I'm stupid and making matters worse with the high fat intake. I live in a little village and finding a doctor who is open minded in these matters is near impossible, soooooo I'm not going to bother with the high levels that had me so worried and just continue, fool hardy maybe but from what you, others and my limited reading on the subject so far, I'm going to pop my clogs with worry rather than high cholesterol levels!! Thanks for taking the time to respond.
Most doctors don't keep up with modern research. They stick to what they learned in med school, and because of the nature of medical training, that was likely 30+ years ago for your doctor. He's indoctrinated into the low fat mindset (and the one where he thinks you should blindly follow his every word).
If you're afraid of going against his knowledge, then take him the knowledge that says he's wrong. No, he probably won't like it right away, but if he's worth a grain of salt, he'll look at what you've presented him and mull it over. It's hard to argue with PubMed and NIH studies, of which there are many. Again, peruse the Launch Pad and archives for ones to get you started. Reading them, or reading about them, will also help you feel more confident about your decision and about standing up to your doctor.
Since the other things I've linked are rather heavy and in-depth, here's a quicker read that may ring more pertinent to your particular situation. Don't be afraid to read the comments, too, since they provide a bunch more insight into the details of it all -- http://www.docsopinion.com/2013/07/24/low-carb-and-cholesterol/
It's a scary thing to go against conventional medical advice, especially when (it seems like) you have to turn all of it on its head. Arm yourself with knowledge and you'll feel more confident in your decision, overall.0
