Homemade Kombucha & Homemade Kefir Questions for LCHF
disaberry
Posts: 34 Member
I LOVE my homemade Kombucha and Jun teas and Milk Kefir. The health benefits are amazing! My KT and JT are continuous brew and I go a LONG time before bottling. It is well past the 21 days for what is considered to be the threshold for the probiotic yeasts and bacteria to have "eaten" all the sugar. I don't drink much.. maybe 8 oz every couple of days and my second ferments go often over a month before drinking.
The milk kefir grains, supposedly, eat the lactose in the whole milk thereby rendering a lower carb count. I use only whole organic milk. I drink a protein shake with milk knifer for breakfast or pre-training almost daily.
Does anyone have experience or information in whether or not this is not good for the LCHF diets? Is there a way to test for the sugars present in these healthy elixirs. Hard to find accurate info on carb and sugar counts because most people are making sweet bottled teas and sugar laden shakes.
I have been around 100-150 carbs, high protein, low sugar (except weekends and holidays were my downfall). I'm still only 15 lbs and 10% BF away, from my goal of 125 lbs. and 18% BF. I am stalled and so now dropping down to 30 carbs for a bit. My average carbs when maintaining are yet undetermined.
My original weight loss from May 2014 was 30lbs, and 10% BF loss. I am 56 years old and strength train 4-5 days a week.
Thanks!
The milk kefir grains, supposedly, eat the lactose in the whole milk thereby rendering a lower carb count. I use only whole organic milk. I drink a protein shake with milk knifer for breakfast or pre-training almost daily.
Does anyone have experience or information in whether or not this is not good for the LCHF diets? Is there a way to test for the sugars present in these healthy elixirs. Hard to find accurate info on carb and sugar counts because most people are making sweet bottled teas and sugar laden shakes.
I have been around 100-150 carbs, high protein, low sugar (except weekends and holidays were my downfall). I'm still only 15 lbs and 10% BF away, from my goal of 125 lbs. and 18% BF. I am stalled and so now dropping down to 30 carbs for a bit. My average carbs when maintaining are yet undetermined.
My original weight loss from May 2014 was 30lbs, and 10% BF loss. I am 56 years old and strength train 4-5 days a week.
Thanks!
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I would like to know this as well as I am a fan of Kombucha tea and water kefir. I never could get milk kefir to function for me.0
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Surely with thousands of members.. Someone would know. I hope!0
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@KnitOrMiss has experience with kombucha, she hasn't been in the forums much lately, I'm sure she wouldn't mind a message from you for info0
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I have a nifty chart on FB that shows the sugars and alcohol in the process decline to their lowest levels between 14-28 days. I also brew mine at least 14 days. It is never sweet to the taste when I drink it, either. There are steps you can take (a similar strip to Ketostix) that show the acidity levels, and I believe those correspond in a 180 relationship to the remaining sugars. I drink 16 oz each day, and I'm insulin resistant, but the sugars remaining, whatever they are, do not trigger an insulin reaction in me - and I still maintained nutritional ketosis levels drinking it. Whereas a single dark chocolate chip can trigger a reaction (1 TBSP has 8 grams of carbs, 6 grams of sugar, so that's what, a tenth or less of that?) or other items with sugars in them. I do a second ferment with fruits and such, so my sugar levels are probably higher even that yours.
I've found that my brews taste similarly to GT brand Komucha, and so I average between using that number and the number on a homebrew entry here on MFP. But as I said, even drinking the sweetER brews I make, it doesn't trigger my insulin reactions, and it doesn't kick me out of nutritional ketosis. There are some great Kombucha, Jun, and Kefir groups on Facebook if you're on there.
I was told that essentially without dumping a bottle of your homebrew into whatever machine they use to breakdown caloric values that you can't get true and consistent data but the common charts all show that 14-28 days is considered the optimum brewing. Anything further than that does not really increase the probiotic effects. I find that the drink hurts my stomach once it has reached the point of tasting like Kombucha vinegar.0 -
auntstephie321 wrote: »@KnitOrMiss has experience with kombucha, she hasn't been in the forums much lately, I'm sure she wouldn't mind a message from you for info
HA! I found a nifty thing in this latest update from MFP that screwed everything else up - I actually received a notification that said, "@auntstephie321 mentioned you in this post" with a hyperlink! Awesome.
P.S. Apologies to all, but catching up on almost 10 pages of posts from vacation has overwhelmed me a bit! And my OCD won't let me do it any other way. LOL0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »@KnitOrMiss has experience with kombucha, she hasn't been in the forums much lately, I'm sure she wouldn't mind a message from you for info
HA! I found a nifty thing in this latest update from MFP that screwed everything else up - I actually received a notification that said, "@auntstephie321 mentioned you in this post" with a hyperlink! Awesome.
P.S. Apologies to all, but catching up on almost 10 pages of posts from vacation has overwhelmed me a bit! And my OCD won't let me do it any other way. LOL
Sweet, I just got the same notification when you tagged me in this post. That's how the main forums work, I'm glad it's working for groups now too
not if they could just fix the search functionality 0 -
I tried kefir recently with limited success. It was hard to time/temperature it right to get the "drinkable yogurt" creamy stage. If you went too long or had temp too high, it would separate into kurds and whey. You could drink that, but it was less appealing than the properly made kefir. I also had trouble with finding my kefir "grains" (won't purchase them from the same vendor again) they were way too small and I lost them in the curds.
As far as the sugar content goes, Kefir has less than milk, but how much less, IDK. If it doesn't taste sweet, the sugars are gone. But the healthy aspects of the probiotic culture far outweighs the few grams of carbs it might have.
I just wrote about probiotics/fermented foods/gut-flora-correcting diets the other day:
Gut Flora Repair and a Few Diets that Promote It
Probiotics
Enjoy!
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
Keto / The Recipe Water Fasting / E.A.S.Y. Exercise Program
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Kefir water is much more appealing than the milk I tried. It has the texture of water, though the smell is a little off putting at first...I use ripped old pantyhose to strain it.
14 days is about max for Kombucha for me, otherwise it's so acidic it burns (and tastes like vinegar, yuck)0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »I have a nifty chart on FB that shows the sugars and alcohol in the process decline to their lowest levels between 14-28 days. I also brew mine at least 14 days. It is never sweet to the taste when I drink it, either. There are steps you can take (a similar strip to Ketostix) that show the acidity levels, and I believe those correspond in a 180 relationship to the remaining sugars. I drink 16 oz each day, and I'm insulin resistant, but the sugars remaining, whatever they are, do not trigger an insulin reaction in me - and I still maintained nutritional ketosis levels drinking it. Whereas a single dark chocolate chip can trigger a reaction (1 TBSP has 8 grams of carbs, 6 grams of sugar, so that's what, a tenth or less of that?) or other items with sugars in them. I do a second ferment with fruits and such, so my sugar levels are probably higher even that yours.
I've found that my brews taste similarly to GT brand Komucha, and so I average between using that number and the number on a homebrew entry here on MFP. But as I said, even drinking the sweetER brews I make, it doesn't trigger my insulin reactions, and it doesn't kick me out of nutritional ketosis. There are some great Kombucha, Jun, and Kefir groups on Facebook if you're on there.
I was told that essentially without dumping a bottle of your homebrew into whatever machine they use to breakdown caloric values that you can't get true and consistent data but the common charts all show that 14-28 days is considered the optimum brewing. Anything further than that does not really increase the probiotic effects. I find that the drink hurts my stomach once it has reached the point of tasting like Kombucha vinegar.
Wow Thanks SO much for your great sharing @KnitOrMiss !!
I had also discovered the longer I went with my brews the more the acetic acid taste went away and the other more beneficial probiotic acids took over, making it sour or tart, not vinegary. I also do a second ferment with some fruit.
I am just so stalled... Today was day 1 of serious LCHF. Don't want to screw it up! LOL
Would you mind posting your chart here? I quit FaceBook for the New Year. They do have some great MK and KT probiotic groups but I was spending WAY too much time on FB.
I will look for the stix you mentioned.
Also what could I look for when I plug in the MFP entry for MK and KT that you use?
It is great that the Kombucha doesn't trigger the insulin response in you or kick you out of Ketosis. I come from a long line of diabetics on both sides and so far so good. I want it to sty that way.
Thanks Again!
Disa
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I tried kefir recently with limited success. It was hard to time/temperature it right to get the "drinkable yogurt" creamy stage. If you went too long or had temp too high, it would separate into kurds and whey. You could drink that, but it was less appealing than the properly made kefir. I also had trouble with finding my kefir "grains" (won't purchase them from the same vendor again) they were way too small and I lost them in the curds.
As far as the sugar content goes, Kefir has less than milk, but how much less, IDK. If it doesn't taste sweet, the sugars are gone. But the healthy aspects of the probiotic culture far outweighs the few grams of carbs it might have.
Hi Dan,
Thanks for your reply. I hear you about the milk kefir issues. Since I put mine in a smoothie with protein powder (naturally sweetened with stevia.. low carb) It doesn't matter if it was over fermented. I like it tangy.
My grains grow like crazy. I ordered my grains from http://www.kefirlady.com
In fact they grow SO well I regularly whip up the extras in my shake.
Thanks for the link to your article! I look forward to reading it.
Peace,
Disa
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »I have a nifty chart on FB that shows the sugars and alcohol in the process decline to their lowest levels between 14-28 days. I also brew mine at least 14 days. It is never sweet to the taste when I drink it, either. There are steps you can take (a similar strip to Ketostix) that show the acidity levels, and I believe those correspond in a 180 relationship to the remaining sugars. I drink 16 oz each day, and I'm insulin resistant, but the sugars remaining, whatever they are, do not trigger an insulin reaction in me - and I still maintained nutritional ketosis levels drinking it. Whereas a single dark chocolate chip can trigger a reaction (1 TBSP has 8 grams of carbs, 6 grams of sugar, so that's what, a tenth or less of that?) or other items with sugars in them. I do a second ferment with fruits and such, so my sugar levels are probably higher even that yours.
I've found that my brews taste similarly to GT brand Komucha, and so I average between using that number and the number on a homebrew entry here on MFP. But as I said, even drinking the sweetER brews I make, it doesn't trigger my insulin reactions, and it doesn't kick me out of nutritional ketosis. There are some great Kombucha, Jun, and Kefir groups on Facebook if you're on there.
I was told that essentially without dumping a bottle of your homebrew into whatever machine they use to breakdown caloric values that you can't get true and consistent data but the common charts all show that 14-28 days is considered the optimum brewing. Anything further than that does not really increase the probiotic effects. I find that the drink hurts my stomach once it has reached the point of tasting like Kombucha vinegar.
Wow Thanks SO much for your great sharing @KnitOrMiss !!
I had also discovered the longer I went with my brews the more the acetic acid taste went away and the other more beneficial probiotic acids took over, making it sour or tart, not vinegary. I also do a second ferment with some fruit.
I am just so stalled... Today was day 1 of serious LCHF. Don't want to screw it up! LOL
Would you mind posting your chart here? I quit FaceBook for the New Year. They do have some great MK and KT probiotic groups but I was spending WAY too much time on FB.
I will look for the stix you mentioned.
Also what could I look for when I plug in the MFP entry for MK and KT that you use?
It is great that the Kombucha doesn't trigger the insulin response in you or kick you out of Ketosis. I come from a long line of diabetics on both sides and so far so good. I want it to sty that way.
Thanks Again!
Disa
Disa,
Okay, firstly, it will not be easy for me to post that chart. I can't access Facebook or my phone from the same location I can do MFP. @leahawilson might be able to post it easier. But I don't know if she's back from vacation yet... I will see what I can do, but it may be ... heh...occurred to me to use TheGoogle.
Here's a site that talks about some of the stuff.
https://www.kombuchakamp.com/ph-kombucha-alkaline-acid-balance
It even includes sponsored links to buy the product for testing the acidity.
Ha! So I lied - in this FAQ, it says there is a way to test for the sugar and alcohol content remaining the brew! https://www.kombuchakamp.com/sugar-and-kombucha-faq-top-10
As for the MFP post to use, it really depends on the fruits you use. I tend to stick with ginger in all my brews, then strawberries, blueberries, or a combo. I made the mistake of trying lemon juice (just YUCK!) and lime juice (so-so) this last brew, and sweet dark cherries a while back - every combo with this had to be choked down.
Therefore, I tend to use the GT Gingerberry listing...6 grams of sugar per 8 oz or something for half of it, and a homebrew listing with 2-7 grams, give or take, on the listing. It really depends. As long as I keep the rest of my carbs low, a discrepancy like this has not slowed me down.
"When done fermenting, there will be about 2-6 grams per 8 ounce glass of unflavored Kombucha." per the link above
The type of sugar that is left is partially broken down and doesn't most folks blood sugars the same way. I described my insulin resistance reaction above. I do not have that reaction, in any form, to my Kombucha...
Hope this helps.
P.S. the natural fermentation in kombucha actually helps restore gut balance which helps the body be able to process sugars more effectively, though I don't know how that works for diabetics...0 -
Another interesting link:
http://www.sarahwilson.com/2014/02/how-to-make-almost-sugar-free-fermented-kombucha/0 -
Okay, firstly, it will not be easy for me to post that chart. I can't access Facebook or my phone from the same location I can do MFP. @leahawilson might be able to post it easier. But I don't know if she's back from vacation yet... I will see what I can do, but it may be ... heh...occurred to me to use TheGoogle.
Here's a site that talks about some of the stuff.
https://www.kombuchakamp.com/ph-kombucha-alkaline-acid-balance
It even includes sponsored links to buy the product for testing the acidity.
Ha! So I lied - in this FAQ, it says there is a way to test for the sugar and alcohol content remaining the brew! https://www.kombuchakamp.com/sugar-and-kombucha-faq-top-10
As for the MFP post to use, it really depends on the fruits you use. I tend to stick with ginger in all my brews, then strawberries, blueberries, or a combo. I made the mistake of trying lemon juice (just YUCK!) and lime juice (so-so) this last brew, and sweet dark cherries a while back - every combo with this had to be choked down..
Thanks! Some great links.
Great minds think alike!
Strawberries and Ginger.. sometimes blueberries. I also do a ginger with vanilla added... yum
Lemon was SO yuck...
I always wondered about the sugar & acid content, so, I will find the stuff and report back... someday. LOL
I love what the gut balance helps achieve. The more I read about the "microbiome" the more interesting it is to continue making and drinking and eating fermented probiotic foods. I am experimenting with fermented veggies also.
Have a great day!0 -
@KnitOrMiss
Here are two EXCELLENT articles... very in-depth about the science around Kombucha and the acid/alkaline balance, length of brewing, Glucaronic acid, etc.
gaiaresearch.co.za/kombucha.html
gaiaresearch.co.za/kombuchaglucuronicacid.html
Thought you and others might be interested.
Peace,
Disa0 -
@DittoDan also has a spin-off group from here where he is reporting on his adventures in gut restoration and all things fermented! Definitely worth a look-see. http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/106573-ketogenic-diet-water-fasting0
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Thanks! I will head over there! 0
This discussion has been closed.