Enough is enough?
Deena_Bean
Posts: 906 Member
This morning my squats were 135. It was pretty heavy, it was hard and my lower back and right knee noticed. I didn't hurt anything, but I could feel those 2 body parts sort of reminding me that they're capable of injury in a jiffy.
Here's the thing. I'm not lifting to be like the strongest woman in the world or anything. My goal here is to have muscle vs. fat, and to make sure I'm lifting for the benefits of aging/bone loss. I'm not looking for an award, I don't have any desire to lift cars or pull semi's
I think it's completely awesome for women to lift and be strong, and I think each of us probably has our own idea of what we're here for (and the reasons for it).
I'm wondering now, in my case, is there a point of 'enough is enough'. It's not worth it to me to keep inching up and risking injury due to failure. I've seen back injuries happen and then the person (read: my husband, playing basketball more than 10 years ago) that have caused permanent damage - and therefore permanent recurrence of pain. Not interested in all that - I've seen his pain resulting from a sports injury and it ain't pretty (like taking off work for a few days to lay on the couch). I know, good form prevents it, but accidents happen. Like I said, I could tell what I lifted this morning was quite heavy (to me anyways) - and I could also see that it wouldn't be too hard to screw myself up with one wrong move, balance failure, shift in a leg, a hip dip...whatever.
At this point, if I were to max out now (or soon), will I continue to reap the benefits of lifting at this amount? It seems like that should be fine, right? Obviously I won't lose muscle by not going up in weight...I just theoretically won't get "stronger" right? What are the best reasons (aside from being stronger) to keep inching up? Feel free to unload opinions or facts - I'm up for it all. Just bouncing around ideas and whatnot...
Here's the thing. I'm not lifting to be like the strongest woman in the world or anything. My goal here is to have muscle vs. fat, and to make sure I'm lifting for the benefits of aging/bone loss. I'm not looking for an award, I don't have any desire to lift cars or pull semi's
I think it's completely awesome for women to lift and be strong, and I think each of us probably has our own idea of what we're here for (and the reasons for it).I'm wondering now, in my case, is there a point of 'enough is enough'. It's not worth it to me to keep inching up and risking injury due to failure. I've seen back injuries happen and then the person (read: my husband, playing basketball more than 10 years ago) that have caused permanent damage - and therefore permanent recurrence of pain. Not interested in all that - I've seen his pain resulting from a sports injury and it ain't pretty (like taking off work for a few days to lay on the couch). I know, good form prevents it, but accidents happen. Like I said, I could tell what I lifted this morning was quite heavy (to me anyways) - and I could also see that it wouldn't be too hard to screw myself up with one wrong move, balance failure, shift in a leg, a hip dip...whatever.
At this point, if I were to max out now (or soon), will I continue to reap the benefits of lifting at this amount? It seems like that should be fine, right? Obviously I won't lose muscle by not going up in weight...I just theoretically won't get "stronger" right? What are the best reasons (aside from being stronger) to keep inching up? Feel free to unload opinions or facts - I'm up for it all. Just bouncing around ideas and whatnot...
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I am only squatting 70 pounds, deadlifting 75, benching 60, rowing 65 and OHP 50. I am trying to perfect my form, but I keep injuring myself. I am lying on the couch with back strain and trigger finger as I type this. I would hold at your current weight until lifting it is easy, and then increase in tiny increments, with 1.25 pound fractional plates even. I thought my form was good (a muscular guy even complimented me on it) and two days later BAM, can barely walk. So be careful.0
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I have heard that when you hit a wall like this, you have to deload like 10% and increase reps/sets. Or if you are in a deficit, eat more or at maintenance for a while. But I will let the experts chime in...0
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i don't think you get weaker if you just stay at weights that you're happy with . . . 0
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This is an awesome questions. I'd like to know too.0
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I think my guy is getting nervous for me - he knows how badly he can hurt and he doesn't want to see it happen to me. I agree with him, I just need to decide if I've reached my 'enough" stage now. That's not to say that I will never increase..but it may be months if ever. Hmmmm....0
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I was hoping there would be a lot of input on this thread because it's definitely a question that I anticipate down the road. Thanks to those who responded.0
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There are so many ways for you to get stronger that don't include heavy squats. They are just one (very effective) exercise. If you get to a point where you don't want to go heavier you might try different variations like a front squat, split squats, lunges, or body weight squats through to pistol squats. Depending on your concerns and/or goals any of those variations can further your progress.0
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There are a few of the lifts that concern me the heavier they get - the kind that involve bending to lift (squats, deadlift and rows). The OHP doesn't concern me as much because if I can't get the weight over my head to begin with I doubt I'll injure myself (and I can tell if I can manage to get it up there or not). Same with the bench...not as concerning to me. I'm still thinking on this...0
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Progressive overload is the key. That can be done in 2 ways: more weight or more volume. If you have no desire to lift more than 135#, you can increase the volume of work (more reps or sets) you're doing and do it with lighter weights. Either way will allow you to get stronger, retain the muscles you have, and build muscle (if you want and eat to support that goal down the line).
ETA: also, if you want to just continue at the weight you're at, you can. Overtime, your body will become more efficient at lifting it. When that happens, you can look into the above (more weight or more volume), if you desire. Either way, continuing to lift at a weight you're happy with won't cause you to lose muscles because they are going to be worked and developed.0 -
I find this thread interesting because 135lb was my enough is enough squat weight. It was "I am no longer enjoying my workout" weight. Bench press 102.5, overhead press 82.5, deadlift 165, rows 105. I feel like I could have gone heavier on the deadlift but I lift alone and the idea of injury absolutely held me back. Husband was constantly asking me not to push it. Same as you I am lifting for health and bone density. Not looking to win any contests. I decided to try body beast to see if it increased my strength with the idea I would absolutely go back to strong lifts. But... I decided to do another round of body beast as I saw changes much faster with body beast. I still think I will go back to 5x5's in the future, just not yet. Before changing programs I did try the deload and work back up on squats but as soon as I got back to 135lb I didn't look forward to jumping into the workouts. I agree with others, enjoying lifting is much more important than increasing weight. I also agree deloading and doing more reps is still moving forward. Even just shorter rests between sets is still moving forward. My motto is if it feels like a workout, its a workout.0
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This is kind of where I am at at the moment too. I've just finished 3 months of hypertrophy work where I started at 8 reps,then 12 and finally 15, now switched back to some power work because the volume was becoming too much. But I'm finding that DL are stalling at 75kg because I've become anxious about the weight. I've had lifting sessions with my trainer and form is good. I'm at the point that I'm starting to actually avoid it. My brain tells me just drop the weight back to 60 -65kg and do a couple more sets but my heart tells me that's a cop out to just stop mucking around and do it.
I lift because I enjoy it but as the weights get heavier or at least they are for me, that pleasure seems to be waining.
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Xcalygrl, alasin1derland, and christch, thanks for sharing your perspectives. I know that I will find it very useful when it happens me me down the road.0
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Thank you all for your words of wisdom
This morning I kept my squats at 135 - it was a hard day, it felt harder than the last day I lifted 135. I think I'm going to deload a bit and re-work back up to this. My form is sketchy anyways, so I'm only hurting myself by not correcting it. So on Saturday I'll drop down a bit. Also, I'm starting to get to that "I hate squats" frame of mind, and that's not going to be conducive to continuing. Better to de-load and continue feeling good about keeping the lifts in my schedule 0 -
As a disclaimer before I answer: I am the complete opposite right now. I want to get stronger. I would like to compete in powerlifting one day. I do obstacle races more than once a year. So to me, performance is important. Going up in weight motivates me. Yet I also find myself running into certain walls (almost literally) doing what I do, so I have recently been drawn back to a more fundamental approach to movement.
So that is the perspective I am coming from with my answer.
If you get to a point where you no longer enjoy what you are doing or your training does not line up with your goals, then perhaps it is time you switch it up. Like some people mentioned, you can try different variations of the squat that will challenge you in different ways. And doing that you could still stick to 5x5, but somewhere down the line, it is and will remain this: a "begginer's" weight lifting routine.
To be honest, if your goal is bone density, overal health and a body that is strong and "ready" to face life, what you should be looking at is something a lot more "functional". And by that I don't mean crossfit, so don't go ringing alarm bells haha. You want to focus on body control and mobility. Lifting weights is a good "base" per se, strength-wise, but most people will have skipped the step that I think should come first in every case: bodyweight exercise mastery. Squats, lunges, push-ups, pike presses, planks, pull-ups... The kind of stuff that you may find yourself doing repeatedly in real life.
I'm not saying you should drop barbell work completely. In fact, deadlifts are a very functional exercise and honestly, if you're smart about them your chance of injury is basically none (if you can't get the darn bar off the floor, it won't move. Yanow?).
But from the list of reasons why you lift/workout I think what you should be looking into is something that incorporates more body-aware movements. Stuff that teaches your body how to move the way it did when you were younger. And then the barbell stuff can come as an accessory to that, which means the focus would be much less about increasing the weight on the bar, and more on building up that balance in your body that alllows you to lift more weight almost seamlessly because you have found new strength in a different "environment".
You don't need to want to ever shoot for being able to do what they do, but look up a few parkour videos (not free running. The flips and jumps are impressive but do not illustrate my point very well xD). Look at how they move from point A to point B almost effortlessly. That is what the human body is supposed to be doing. That is how you "prevent injuries and pain". Barbell training is only one of many tools you can use to get there, so if you feel you have reached a point where putting more weight on the bar will actually take you further from that goal, then go look at the other tools at your disposition and make the best of what you have.
But don't leave it out completely, especially if you enjoy it. Even if you need a saw for this particular project, it doesn't mean that the screwdriver has become useless!
Here, so nobody gets the wrong idea, this is what parkour looks like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMppD-bUNWo 0 -
Wow! great video! It would be amazing to be able to move like that. I feel like gravity has different rules for me vs that guy. lol0
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That's so great! Funny, I was just thinking the other day that what I really need is gymnastics or acrobatics.
Man, if people look at me funny as an older woman in the gym, just wait till I start jumping over walls
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Those guys are pretty amazing - my kids are fascinated by parkour - how hysterical would it be if their mom could do it?! LOL. I'm pretty agile, but nothing like that. I think you're on to something here krok - I need to maybe expand my horizon's some and use the lifting as supplemental. I definitely don't want to stop lifting because it has done things to my body that have been SO amazingly helpful. Some examples 1. I can run faster and with more ease than before..my legs are powerhouses 2. Same applies to my biking - Rob and I love to bike through the more temperate months and I noticed last summer (after I had been lifting for a few months) that the hills that I used to be barely make it up were not hard at all anymore...that totally blew my mind! 3. My shape has changed for the better, fat's melting off slowly and I can feel some pretty badass abs in there (although they haven't poked through, they're definitely in there!).
So right now I lift Tue/Thur/Sat mornings doing the SL routine and on Wed/Fri (or Mon/Wed) I am on the treadmill. I mix the treadmill up with jogging and walking on an incline. In the vain of what you're saying - do you have any recommendations on switching things around? Maybe one of the SL days could be different types of lifts or body movements? Thoughts??
And that's awesome that you want to compete!! I watch your videos on instagram and I'm all
-- how she do dat?! ---
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I've been meaning to chime in for a while, but had some long work days and such.
While it's fun at times to be lifting near max weight on a regular basis, I do think there is a lot to be said about branching out and taking steps back sometimes. It's okay to have different goals, to not always be about lift the most weight possible.
Even doing PHUL was a challenge because the power days, while fun, were always so close to my one rep max and after a while that changes at a much slower pace. Doing this cycle with peaking at the meet in focus, has been a nice little break. I can see why some lifters and routines go through different cycles instead of just doing the same sets and reps indefinitely.
Just got to do what you will enjoy and focus on your own goals, whether it be lift heavy stuff or do any other realm of program and option available. I wouldn't mind even trying crossfit some time out of curiosity, if the class would ever fit (here the introduction class is required) in my schedule and budget.0 -
I'm a very schedule-oriented person, so I have a fear (from past experience) that if I do not have a plan I will just do nothing. It's stupid of me, but it's just some hard-wire programming I haven't been able to overcome. So doing a program like SL where everything is simply laid out for me is the kind of regimen I respond best to (in terms of staying on task). With my running my goal is always in my head that I'm improving speed for my next 5K. I'll have to think about this, I guess. Make a plan of action 0
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Love the Parkour video. I thought people only did that in James Bond movies. How come none of the people he went past looked twice? I'd be turning around looking to see who was chasing him.0
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Have you looked in to Wendler 5/3/1?
I thought of doing that but ended up switching to a 3x5 version of ICF instead.
The deload every 4 weeks looked like a nice break in order to get pass the mental fatigue of lifting at max weight all the time and dreading workouts.0 -
Have you looked in to Wendler 5/3/1?
I thought of doing that but ended up switching to a 3x5 version of ICF instead.
The deload every 4 weeks looked like a nice break in order to get pass the mental fatigue of lifting at max weight all the time and dreading workouts.
I haven't looked in to that - I should. It's def getting to the point that I am going to stop enjoying it. It's close now.0 -
I hear you on being a schedule-oriented person. I am excellent at following a program, less so at hacking something together or winging it. I've been considering getting a coach that can pull everything together for me and provide a program that I just follow. I don't have someone local to me, so I've been looking at doing the program design package with http://body-improvements.com/0
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I'll chime in as an older ladies (58) perspective. I won't lift anything unless I have perfect form and nothing hurts. If something hurts on occasion like my hip or knee it is usually because of bad form which could be because the weight is too heavy. I then deload then and there or check my form. I don't care how long it takes to increase weight or if I ever do. I now only increase by 1-2 pounds at a time. I started Kettlebell swings in December. They are a full body workout and are supposed to help increase strength and enhance compound weight lifts. I am still very slowly increasing my lift weights.
I can tell you this about my physical changes- prior to weight lifting I have scoliosis- sideways the worse kind to have, 2 broken- crushed vertebrae in my neck, L4 and L5 disc bulges, L4 and L5 facet rub which can be felt in right hip during movement. Pain most of the time. Now I only have pain if I don't work out! I was a mess before weight lifting. I believe it has increased my bone density, reduced my scoliosis- I may be straightening my spine due to muscle development and I can't feel the facet rub anymore.
I don't add weight just because it is the next session. I will only add if my form is perfect and I have no pain.
I started lifting 12.5 lbs to 27.5 lbs one year ago on March 2nd. Now, Squats- 125, sumo squats 110, BP 80, OHP 60, BR 85, DL 150. My numbers aren't impressive but my form is perfect. Kettlebell 22x10x30. I tried to increase 5 sets to 35# but my form was bad and I felt it in my shoulder blades. I continued with good form and didn't have further issues.
I would never lift if I felt any pain anywhere that I couldn't make go away by adjusting my form.0 -
Deena_Bean wrote: »So right now I lift Tue/Thur/Sat mornings doing the SL routine and on Wed/Fri (or Mon/Wed) I am on the treadmill. I mix the treadmill up with jogging and walking on an incline. In the vain of what you're saying - do you have any recommendations on switching things around? Maybe one of the SL days could be different types of lifts or body movements? Thoughts??
And that's awesome that you want to compete!! I watch your videos on instagram and I'm all -- how she do dat?! ---
I'm no trainer or coach, so while I experiment with stuff for myself I don't really feel qualified or confident enough to actually put a schedule together. For what it's worth though, I'd probably try to get into it gradually.
Start adding some quadrupedal movements to your warm-up session - if you do walking on a treadmill or biking to warm-up, trade it in! (all that crawling/monkeying is awesome for full body mobility, and it hits the shoulders, back, core and legs in ways that cannot be replicated with weight-loaded exercises, really.) Doing it as a warm-up means you get into it for fun, work up a sweat but don't go to fatigue, which is good because you can focus on keeping perfect form throughout and if you ever need to apply the "skills" you won't have bad movement patterns ingrained. And if you don't workout at home, you get to have people staring at you wondering what the hell you're doing and you can in turn educate them!
(But seriously, if you're self conscious about it, you only need a few feet of floor at home to incorporate it before you head out, or any time during the day, really)
Add in some core work to the end of your sessions. Planks (static and dynamic), hip bridges, superman holds, hollow rocks, etc.
Then maybe you can get a little crazy and add some circuits maybe once a week (after your regular lifting session. You may want to do only a 3x5 at first when adding those in). Use recline rows, body weight squats and push-ups. The most simple set-up is to set a time limit, say, 5, 6, 8, 10 minutes going through a circuit for as many rounds as possible while keeping good form, starting on a shorter duration and seeing if you can keep up longer as you progress. Or set a timer for 4-10 mins of 30s intervals and do one exercise for the first 30s, rest, then get back at it. Or keep it simple and do 3 sets of 8-12 of the variations you can do.
You can learn new exercises and variations as you go along. Starting simple is probably best though!
If you find you enjoy that, there are many, MANY programs out there. A good number of which you don't even need to pay for. Some will be body weight only. Some will use dumbbells or kettlebells, or bands. Some do incorporate barbell work with body weight exercises.
5/3/1 does have a variation with bodyweight assistance only, but it is more geared towards intermediate lifters (it's got chinups and stuff? haven't checked it out in a while) although it is a perfectly valid routine if you want to switch up from 5x5 completely. It takes a lot less time to work up to the work sets and no one says you have to really push the envelope that much on the + sets. I'm usually done with an exercise within 20 minutes (after 20 minutes of general warming up, but I go to the gym basically first thing in the AM so I need the extra mobility work and I do some skill work as well), so it'll drastically cut back on your workout time. And you can make it work for a 3 days a week schedule by combining OHP and deadlift on the same day
You can also experiment with doing some yoga or replacing one of your cardio sessions with some of the fitness blender workouts that can be found on youtube. There are so many possibilities!
I hope that helps and doesn't make it any more complicated, haha xD
Also, sorry I haven't been around that much lately. The life be crazeh!
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Deena_Bean wrote: »Have you looked in to Wendler 5/3/1?
I thought of doing that but ended up switching to a 3x5 version of ICF instead.
The deload every 4 weeks looked like a nice break in order to get pass the mental fatigue of lifting at max weight all the time and dreading workouts.
I haven't looked in to that - I should. It's def getting to the point that I am going to stop enjoying it. It's close now.
I switched to 5/3/1 a while ago. 3x5 was just starting to take up so much time. I am the same way with routine, and I use the (free) Wendlerized app on my phone. Progress is slower, but that's fine with me.0 -
Deena_Bean wrote: »So right now I lift Tue/Thur/Sat mornings doing the SL routine and on Wed/Fri (or Mon/Wed) I am on the treadmill. I mix the treadmill up with jogging and walking on an incline. In the vain of what you're saying - do you have any recommendations on switching things around? Maybe one of the SL days could be different types of lifts or body movements? Thoughts??
And that's awesome that you want to compete!! I watch your videos on instagram and I'm all -- how she do dat?! ---
I'm no trainer or coach, so while I experiment with stuff for myself I don't really feel qualified or confident enough to actually put a schedule together. For what it's worth though, I'd probably try to get into it gradually.
Start adding some quadrupedal movements to your warm-up session - if you do walking on a treadmill or biking to warm-up, trade it in! (all that crawling/monkeying is awesome for full body mobility, and it hits the shoulders, back, core and legs in ways that cannot be replicated with weight-loaded exercises, really.) Doing it as a warm-up means you get into it for fun, work up a sweat but don't go to fatigue, which is good because you can focus on keeping perfect form throughout and if you ever need to apply the "skills" you won't have bad movement patterns ingrained. And if you don't workout at home, you get to have people staring at you wondering what the hell you're doing and you can in turn educate them! (But seriously, if you're self conscious about it, you only need a few feet of floor at home to incorporate it before you head out, or any time during the day, really)
Add in some core work to the end of your sessions. Planks (static and dynamic), hip bridges, superman holds, hollow rocks, etc.
Then maybe you can get a little crazy and add some circuits maybe once a week (after your regular lifting session. You may want to do only a 3x5 at first when adding those in). Use recline rows, body weight squats and push-ups. The most simple set-up is to set a time limit, say, 5, 6, 8, 10 minutes going through a circuit for as many rounds as possible while keeping good form, starting on a shorter duration and seeing if you can keep up longer as you progress. Or set a timer for 4-10 mins of 30s intervals and do one exercise for the first 30s, rest, then get back at it. Or keep it simple and do 3 sets of 8-12 of the variations you can do.
You can learn new exercises and variations as you go along. Starting simple is probably best though!
If you find you enjoy that, there are many, MANY programs out there. A good number of which you don't even need to pay for. Some will be body weight only. Some will use dumbbells or kettlebells, or bands. Some do incorporate barbell work with body weight exercises.
5/3/1 does have a variation with bodyweight assistance only, but it is more geared towards intermediate lifters (it's got chinups and stuff? haven't checked it out in a while) although it is a perfectly valid routine if you want to switch up from 5x5 completely. It takes a lot less time to work up to the work sets and no one says you have to really push the envelope that much on the + sets. I'm usually done with an exercise within 20 minutes (after 20 minutes of general warming up, but I go to the gym basically first thing in the AM so I need the extra mobility work and I do some skill work as well), so it'll drastically cut back on your workout time. And you can make it work for a 3 days a week schedule by combining OHP and deadlift on the same day
You can also experiment with doing some yoga or replacing one of your cardio sessions with some of the fitness blender workouts that can be found on youtube. There are so many possibilities!
I hope that helps and doesn't make it any more complicated, haha xD
Also, sorry I haven't been around that much lately. The life be crazeh!
Soooo many words, but all great ideas! I do workout at home and I do it before the sun is up - so I stand zero risk of spectator interference LOL. Once upon a time I did 'boot camp' at the local Y and it was great. It mixed up all kinds of different things. Hurdles, planks, tabata, cross fit, etc. We killed it and I loved it. It doesn't fit my schedule anymore, but I'm friends with the guy who is now the trainer for the class (he was just 'in the class' with his wife, but he went all badass and is the lead now). So they've offered to give me their routines. I may take them up on that and then modify them to fit my time bracket (the class is an hour long). I can also pick and choose the things in it I want to do. They were awesome workouts.
Thanks again, friends, for accompanying me on my crazy field trip. I'm definitely going to de-load tomorrow @fanncy0626 - I am terrified to screw myself up. I am 37 and I have arthritis in my neck already and I also have cervical kyphosis (aka "Military Neck") - I don't want to make any of that worse...time will do that all by itself I fear. No need to speed it up. I'm really considering bringing a chiropractor into my life on a regular-ish basis. The one I have is rather far away right now, so I just need to find a more local solution I suppose.0 -
fanncy0626 wrote: »I'll chime in as an older ladies (58) perspective. I won't lift anything unless I have perfect form and nothing hurts. If something hurts on occasion like my hip or knee it is usually because of bad form which could be because the weight is too heavy. I then deload then and there or check my form. I don't care how long it takes to increase weight or if I ever do. I now only increase by 1-2 pounds at a time. I started Kettlebell swings in December. They are a full body workout and are supposed to help increase strength and enhance compound weight lifts. I am still very slowly increasing my lift weights.
I can tell you this about my physical changes- prior to weight lifting I have scoliosis- sideways the worse kind to have, 2 broken- crushed vertebrae in my neck, L4 and L5 disc bulges, L4 and L5 facet rub which can be felt in right hip during movement. Pain most of the time. Now I only have pain if I don't work out! I was a mess before weight lifting. I believe it has increased my bone density, reduced my scoliosis- I may be straightening my spine due to muscle development and I can't feel the facet rub anymore.
I don't add weight just because it is the next session. I will only add if my form is perfect and I have no pain.
I started lifting 12.5 lbs to 27.5 lbs one year ago on March 2nd. Now, Squats- 125, sumo squats 110, BP 80, OHP 60, BR 85, DL 150. My numbers aren't impressive but my form is perfect. Kettlebell 22x10x30. I tried to increase 5 sets to 35# but my form was bad and I felt it in my shoulder blades. I continued with good form and didn't have further issues.
I would never lift if I felt any pain anywhere that I couldn't make go away by adjusting my form.
Thanks for this. I'm 55 and have strained muscles twice, I think because I'm trying to add weight too soon, while my form is not yet perfect. I have been wondering if lifting for older women is just not a good idea. Now I am going to continue lifting but not be in such a hurry to add weight.0 -
whmscll - I really believe that lifting his strengthen my bones and reversed the arthritis that I had in my neck and back area. I was diagnosed with degenerative bone disease. I would bet if I had a MRI that would not be the case anymore. Go slow make sure your form is perfect first and increase weight slowly good luck to you!0
