Metformin ER timing - any secrets?
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Time2LoseWeightNOW wrote: »
RalfLott , Thank you! I am so excited! I quit cold turkey (metformin) ..because I couldn't go through it anymore. My DUh' brain never thought Imodium... I will try them again this weekend. My FBG #'s are sky high even with trying to do LCHF. ...
Don't feel bad. For many moons, I've bought cases of Imodium like tictacs for traveling out of the country. Even though I always bring most of my food, I've needed it every single time, so even on the first MF date I didn't even need to make, er, a special run for it.
I seem to have the same problem you do - even when low-carbing (30g net carbs), I can't get my FBG down low enough. But Metformin produces a 30-40 point difference.
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KetoGirl83 wrote: »Without meds I now have a fasting BG around 90-95. I would like to see it go a bit lower but I'm hoping it will get there in time.
Thanks for the reference and for the Glucophage tip - much appreciated.
My FBG is never as low as 95 without Metformin even if I'm very careful with my carbs.
Kudos - you're doing something right!
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KetoGirl83 wrote: »Without meds I now have a fasting BG around 90-95. I would like to see it go a bit lower but I'm hoping it will get there in time.
Thanks for the reference and for the Glucophage tip - much appreciated.
My FBG is never as low as 95 without Metformin even if I'm very careful with my carbs.
Kudos - you're doing something right!
You're welcome! Remember it took me more than a year at very, very low carb levels (usually lower than 30g, many times at zero carbs). You'll get there too!
::flowerforyou::
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Dragonwolf wrote: »
You'd be surprised, actually. Check out Dr. Fung's work. With tools like LCHF (if you're willing to go down to sufficiently low carbohydrate levels) and fasting, dramatic results have been seen in as little as a month, and most of them are far worse off than "just" needing Metformin (ie - hundred of units of insulin a day). Even Type 1 Diabetics have been able to go down to little more than just basal insulin in a few months.
I'm sorry, I was not clear.
I don't mean to downplay LCHF or Dr. Fung's teachings - they've been a great help to me, and I have no problem being on Metformin, which I seem to need to keep my fasting BG down. (I meant rather that I'm not likely to have glutes of cast iron in this life; I'd be delighted if I could maintain my current BG's while keeping the cheating side of Metformin on a tether.)
Thanks for your insights - much appreciated.
Out of curiosity, what do you have that keeps your fasting BG high that even a modified diet (even if considered "extreme," like fasting) won't bring down? Everything I've seen points to diet modification working (arguably better than Metformin), including my own experience with getting FBG down from what crept up to ~110 (and was always in the 90s) to 87.0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »
Out of curiosity, what do you have that keeps your fasting BG high that even a modified diet (even if considered "extreme," like fasting) won't bring down? Everything I've seen points to diet modification working (arguably better than Metformin), including my own experience with getting FBG down from what crept up to ~110 (and was always in the 90s) to 87.
I 'm not really sure. I do tend to eat a higher % of protein (and lower % fat) than some LCHFers, but I've kept my net carbs (not including sugar alcohols) pretty low consistently for months. My FBG was running 80-100, but it drifted up to 100-130 after I'd dumped Metformin for a week, then back down again on the same diet after we reconciled.0 -
KetoGirl83 wrote: »Remember it took me more than a year at very, very low carb levels (usually lower than 30g, many times at zero carbs). You'll get there too!
We'll, that's the plan! Thanks for the encouragement.
PS. I assume you're dealing in net carbs, sí?
(Otherwise, zero carbs = no fiber!)0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »
Out of curiosity, what do you have that keeps your fasting BG high that even a modified diet (even if considered "extreme," like fasting) won't bring down? Everything I've seen points to diet modification working (arguably better than Metformin), including my own experience with getting FBG down from what crept up to ~110 (and was always in the 90s) to 87.
I 'm not really sure. I do tend to eat a higher % of protein (and lower % fat) than some LCHFers, but I've kept my net carbs (not including sugar alcohols) pretty low consistently for months. My FBG was running 80-100, but it drifted up to 100-130 after I'd dumped Metformin for a week, then back down again on the same diet after we reconciled.
If you consume a lot of sugar alcohols, that might be contributing to your FBG problems. Additionally, your carbs may be too high for your current level of insulin resistance.
Have a look at the post that @wabmester posted entitled "zero carb vs fasting," there are some interesting insulin (and, by proxy, glucose, though they're not actually shown) numbers in there.
There's not really any reason you shouldn't be able to get your FBG numbers down if you're willing to toy around with some unorthodox (even by LCHF standards) ways of eating, but of course, that's up to you.2 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »If you consume a lot of sugar alcohols, that might be contributing to your FBG problems. Additionally, your carbs may be too high for your current level of insulin resistance.
Have a look at the post that @wabmester posted entitled "zero carb vs fasting," there are some interesting insulin (and, by proxy, glucose, though they're not actually shown) numbers in there.
There's not really any reason you shouldn't be able to get your FBG numbers down if you're willing to toy around with some unorthodox (even by LCHF standards) ways of eating, but of course, that's up to you.
Thanks for taking the to offer these suggestions.
I tend to avoid sugar alcohols, so it's probably that I've still got too many carbs or too much protein, and even after an 18-hour fast (following a period of low-carb eating, but off Metformin), I had a FBG level of 120.
I am a long way from being even an educated lay person, so this may naive in some way, but .....
... could it be that my species of insulin resistance enables glucagon to be too efficient without a pharmaceutical assist?
Thanks again.0 -
KetoGirl83 wrote: »Remember it took me more than a year at very, very low carb levels (usually lower than 30g, many times at zero carbs). You'll get there too!
We'll, that's the plan! Thanks for the encouragement.
PS. I assume you're dealing in net carbs, sí?
(Otherwise, zero carbs = no fiber!)
Usually net carbs, yes. But when I say zero carbs I mean when I'm eating only animal food. I tried a carnivorous diet for a month last year (it was one of the group's monthly challenges) and my body loves it. I, not so much, I miss vegetables. But when I feel the need to reset I go back to meat-fish-eggs-water (plus coffee and coconut oil), it just works.
::flowerforyou::0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »If you consume a lot of sugar alcohols, that might be contributing to your FBG problems. Additionally, your carbs may be too high for your current level of insulin resistance.
Have a look at the post that @wabmester posted entitled "zero carb vs fasting," there are some interesting insulin (and, by proxy, glucose, though they're not actually shown) numbers in there.
There's not really any reason you shouldn't be able to get your FBG numbers down if you're willing to toy around with some unorthodox (even by LCHF standards) ways of eating, but of course, that's up to you.
Thanks for taking the to offer these suggestions.
I tend to avoid sugar alcohols, so it's probably that I've still got too many carbs or too much protein, and even after an 18-hour fast (following a period of low-carb eating, but off Metformin), I had a FBG level of 120.
I am a long way from being even an educated lay person, so this may naive in some way, but .....
... could it be that my species of insulin resistance enables glucagon to be too efficient without a pharmaceutical assist?
Thanks again.
You should watch that Jason Fung video where he's explaining why fasting is so beneficial for diabetics and goes into very easy to understand detail about how insulin resistance develops and progresses into diabetes, as well as how fasting works to reverse that.
He just makes it all make sense.
I found a link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLhMVa_juzVPn7PWoU8JmRL6ZyMq_cIJgA&v=FcLoaVNQ3rc&ebc=ANyPxKor3XtMMUxDG1PEG4UcjNxsFA_6pusefJtOJJ0lb3txs6IRrtTH26j6geF8E4PUxHG7nVAMUA9iSjLI7ZEZzPXVnRPp7A1 -
Thanks. I had already stumbled across JF's approachable videos, but it's been a while since I watched this one, which actually got me into fasting. So I've got it cued up and ready to roll.
The program seems to work, and my numbers have been fine as long as I keep up the Metformin. But after listening to you and others here, I do intend to give Metformin another shot at parole in the next few months.
Thanks again!0 -
Thanks. I had already stumbled across JF's approachable videos, but it's been a while since I watched this one, which actually got me into fasting. So I've got it cued up and ready to roll.
The program seems to work, and my numbers have been fine as long as I keep up the Metformin. But after listening to you and others here, I do intend to give Metformin another shot at parole in the next few months.
Thanks again!
He barely mentions it, but Keto is referenced also. Keto effectively mimics a fasted state, so it's very effective, especially with IF, if you're not into the kind of fasting he's mentioning. You can get pretty close to the full fasting results while actually getting to eat.0 -
Dr. Bernstein had a couple Metformin tips in his March Q & A:
- Get a script for name-brand Glucophage, dispense as written;
- Take it after or at the tail end of a meal;
- Start at 500mg and work your way up.
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Dr. Bernstein had a couple Metformin tips in his March Q & A:
- Get a script for name-brand Glucophage, dispense as written;
- Take it after or at the tail end of a meal;
- Start at 500mg and work your way up.
Good waste of money...if you're willing to pay that much then why don't you look into the cost of Glumetza DAW-1? Gastric retention dose form
A good, cheap alternative is the osmotic release (Extended Release) metformin. Look at your insurance formulary BEFORE for coverage details so you don't unknowingly wind up needing a prior auth for some outrageously priced med (Cough...Glumetza) prescribed by someone who doesn't even look at your insurance formulary. Has some nice "ghost shells" too for some people0 -
KetoGirl83 wrote: »I no longer take metformin except as a backup if I anticipate going higher on carbs than usual.
When I started LCHF I was taking it 3 times a day, with meals. What I found was that even though I could not stand the generic metformin my doctor had prescribed (I binned it after a few horrid days) I would be just fine when I changed to Glucophage so all I can suggest in that regard is that you try another brand. At the time I was going to diabetes.co.uk and from posts there it seems it's not uncommom to react violently to one brand and not at all to other, the active principle is always the same (metformin) but the specific formula does differ from one brand to other.
As for effectiveness in blood sugar control, as soon as I lowered enough my carbs my post prandial levels came to near normal. The dawn phenomenon was difficult to beat and that took me almost a year of going against my doctor's orders. As soon as my A1c got better she prohibited me from taking any metf after lunch time (she was worried I would die in my sleep from an hypo).
This made no sense to me so I stopped taking it during the day and instead followed Dr. Bernstein's advice and took the Glucophage just before bed, so that it would have most of its effect during the night, since that was clearly when I needed it the most. When my fasted levels entered the normal range I stopped taking it altogether.
As I said, I now take it only before a special occasion meal and before bed for a few days after that. I'm sure your doctor would be appalled at this way to use it but it works for me. By now my own doctor has no idea of what I'm doing (I tell her generic fibs) and she just congratulates me on the results.
::flowerforyou::
@KetoGirl83, a belated thanks for pointing me in the direction of Glucophage and away from those combustible generics. That and LC have pretty much done the trick.2 -
My endo wanted to up my dosage of Glucophage, and it doubled my out of pocket cost, so I'm now jumping through all the hoops to appeal, and not being able to increase the dosage until then... UGH. I did take the second dosage one day, before I realized I wasn't going to be able to increase the amount in the Rx without doubling the cost... Metformin caused my violent episodes of loose stool, generally made up of primarily bile acid within the first hour, resulting in tremendous pain and bleeding, even making me miss work a few times. I will not do that again. If my insurance refuses to give me the brand name price because there is a generic available, I think my next experiment might be the natural supplement that @cstehansen is giving a trial to right now.0
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »My endo wanted to up my dosage of Glucophage, and it doubled my out of pocket cost, so I'm now jumping through all the hoops to appeal, and not being able to increase the dosage until then... UGH. I did take the second dosage one day, before I realized I wasn't going to be able to increase the amount in the Rx without doubling the cost... Metformin caused my violent episodes of loose stool, generally made up of primarily bile acid within the first hour, resulting in tremendous pain and bleeding, even making me miss work a few times. I will not do that again. If my insurance refuses to give me the brand name price because there is a generic available, I think my next experiment might be the natural supplement that @cstehansen is giving a trial to right now.
Keep in mind that there are quite a few generics on the market. When the day comes (probably next year
), my strategy will be to compare the ingredients in each available Metformin generic to what's in Glucophage.
(I found a small mom & pop pharmacy willing to do the legwork for me.)2 -
Good luck with that! Let us know when you find good results.
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