Keto vs LCHF
dietbepsi
Posts: 136 Member
...primarily for weight loss. I found the chart that....hmmm...fitgoat? I don't know I really don't remember....posted extremely interesting. Seems like most people on here are going for keto....less than 20 carbs a day. I have also been doing that but I was considering going higher. Like 40 maybe. But primarily I'm trying to help my husband on this and I think he would be much happier starting out higher. I think I might be the minority here, and I was wondering why some people chose to start out at that extremely low 20 net carbs per day instead of reducing to like say 40 to 50? Just curious. I like to hear what other people's experiences are
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For me, 35-50 grams of carbs still left me with cravings. I had to bump down the notch. Most doctors suggest starting somewhere between 50 grams - 100 grams total daily and adjusting down until you lose weight, or up until you stop losing then back down to the losing range to find your personal threshold. General adjustment is 5 grams per week. So if you started at 50 grams for 4 weeks, determine whether you're actively losing, then up or down from there. If you had to go down, the next week would be 45 grams daily, then next week 40, etc. Or if you lose well at 50 grams and want to go higher, the next week would be 55 daily grams, then 60 and so for until you stopped losing. Say you stopped losing at 80 grams. Then you would bump back down to 75 grams daily for your threshold. Those do have to be adjusted periodically, based on loss rates and such, but any carb range under 150 grams is considered LCHF, and some lose quite well in that range. Others have metabolic complications and must drop lower to repair and optimize their broken metabolisms...0
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For me, that VLC number is all about getting off my insulin as my insulin really inhibits weight loss. I'm much happier food-wise at 35 net / 50 total carbs and that's where I hope to get back to once I lose a good chunk of weight. I like to eat a big bowl of veggies. At that higher number I still enjoyed the reduced hunger, increased energy and the lack of carb bloat. I just didn't get the same amount of weight loss that I get now that I barely need any insulin.0
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There's actually a lot of members at higher levels.
I personally chose the Keto level initially as kind of a personal challenge and because I had a seriously bad sugar addiction. I was eating multiple boxes of movie theater sized candy a week. I'd eat some every single day and hide it in different places because I knew eating so much candy was a problem, but I didn't want my husband to know just how often I was eating it.
I had to try really hard not to eat the entire box so that it would last more than one day.
Anyway, I found that I was able to completely resist any candy temptation as long as I kept carbs really low. If I had more or if I had too much sweetened foods (low carb treats and such), that I would find myself craving sweets and generally feeling hungrier. I like being in control and the lower carbs give me that.
Then, as I learned more and noticed more of the benefits, I decided Keto is my lifelong plan for the mental benefits of ketosis.0 -
I keep my carbs under 100, usually around 60-80. I cut out all starches/added sugars but don't limit my vegetables and can usually fit in some fruit too. That was important to me. I don't have any cravings and I'm losing weight. This is perfect for me.0
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Ditto -- around 100g for me, but often lower. Sometimes even close to zero.
For me, it's all about flexibility and lack of deprivation. I try to eat in a way that I feel I can sustain forever.0 -
It just seems kind of hard to wrap my brain around, and I guess I just need to do further research. But it seems like you can't get into ketosis unless you're under 20 carbs a day, pretty much. And if you don't get into ketosis your body really isn't burning fat for fuel it's still burning carbs? So that to me sounds like low-carb wouldn't really work for weight loss and you need to be stricter like Keto. In theory. And obviously that isn't the case for people that are losing weight while on just a lower carb diet but not Keto. I don't know if I'm making sense. I'm glad to know I'm not an island here in thinking maybe I could go higher carb (40-50)and still lose weight.... At the very least start my husband there. Sunny Bunny...I hear ya. I love candy so much...and cake! Cake with lots and lots of butter cream frosting. Oh my word. It is nice to have those cravings gone for sure. But I would like to eat an apple with a piece of cheese sometimes. I love apples. I do miss them.0
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It just seems kind of hard to wrap my brain around, and I guess I just need to do further research. But it seems like you can't get into ketosis unless you're under 20 carbs a day, pretty much. And if you don't get into ketosis your body really isn't burning fat for fuel it's still burning carbs?
Think about that for a second. If you eat 100g carbs, that's 400 calories. If you burn 2000 calories a day, where's the rest going to come from? Add 100g of protein, and you're at 800 calories. The rest of your burn comes from fat.
But any calorie restriction will let you lose weight, right? The difference with low-carb is lack of HUNGER. You don't want to fight your biology. Eat till satisfied. For some people, their appetite is still in the weight-gaining zone at 100g carbs. For others, that's the groove zone. Find your groove.
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It just seems kind of hard to wrap my brain around, and I guess I just need to do further research. But it seems like you can't get into ketosis unless you're under 20 carbs a day, pretty much. And if you don't get into ketosis your body really isn't burning fat for fuel it's still burning carbs?
Think about that for a second. If you eat 100g carbs, that's 400 calories. If you burn 2000 calories a day, where's the rest going to come from? Add 100g of protein, and you're at 800 calories. The rest of your burn comes from fat.
But any calorie restriction will let you lose weight, right? The difference with low-carb is lack of HUNGER. You don't want to fight your biology. Eat till satisfied. For some people, their appetite is still in the weight-gaining zone at 100g carbs. For others, that's the groove zone. Find your groove.
Lol I see
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I wrote this post in the main forums last year. You might find it helpful since it addresses the different levels of carbs and weight loss. http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10180583/to-carb-or-not-to-carb-for-weightloss/p10
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Sorry, couldn't resist. That just came across my twitter feed. 0
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For me, honestly, it was because I lost round 2 of my 6-month DietBet and was really struggling to lose weight on Dukan (which had worked for me before) or a more moderate LCHF (like 80-100gm carbs/day). B/c i was paying $25/mo for DietBet I didn't want to keep throwing money away and I figured keto would give me the best chance of losing weight at a reasonable pace. It worked, and I had some other unexpected benefits to boot.
I officially won the DietBet today and whenever I decide I'm ready to switch to maintenance, I do plan to experiment with gradually increasing calories and carbs until I find my sweet spot for maintenance.0 -
Congrats, @macchiatto!
There are MANY good reasons to stick with a ketogenic diet. It does tweak your metabolism in several ways, and it should theoretically reduce some long-term damage usually associated with old age.
In terms of weight loss, there's not a lot of evidence you'll lose faster or more than moderate low carb, but there is an increased cost of making ketones, there is reduced hunger, and there is reduced insulin. All potentially good for weight loss.0 -
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auntstephie321 wrote: »I wrote this post in the main forums last year. You might find it helpful since it addresses the different levels of carbs and weight loss. http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10180583/to-carb-or-not-to-carb-for-weightloss/p1
It looks like you lost twice the weight in the first 2 months of low carb that your chart shows compared to the first two months on the higher carb. Don't know if calories and exercise were a factor, but that's a cool reference to have. I've never logged or counted calories in the past. Just pretty much went with the "if I'm hungry, I'm doing it right" plan. Lol0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »I wrote this post in the main forums last year. You might find it helpful since it addresses the different levels of carbs and weight loss. http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10180583/to-carb-or-not-to-carb-for-weightloss/p1
It looks like you lost twice the weight in the first 2 months of low carb that your chart shows compared to the first two months on the higher carb. Don't know if calories and exercise were a factor, but that's a cool reference to have. I've never logged or counted calories in the past. Just pretty much went with the "if I'm hungry, I'm doing it right" plan. Lol
It's possible since I did have big drops at first with low carb. I honestly thought when I looked at it that I would find that I lost more in the same amount if time in lc cuz that's how it felt and it was so easy. I was a little sad when the numbers looked the same. Calories were about the same both times, I think those charts were in there in the comments further down. One of the biggest differences and the reason I stay lc is that I don't feel like I'm starving all the time. I'm happy when I eat not miserable trying to choke down a bag of rice with veggies. Then feeling hungry 4 minutes later.0 -
auntstephie321 wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »I wrote this post in the main forums last year. You might find it helpful since it addresses the different levels of carbs and weight loss. http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10180583/to-carb-or-not-to-carb-for-weightloss/p1
It looks like you lost twice the weight in the first 2 months of low carb that your chart shows compared to the first two months on the higher carb. Don't know if calories and exercise were a factor, but that's a cool reference to have. I've never logged or counted calories in the past. Just pretty much went with the "if I'm hungry, I'm doing it right" plan. Lol
It's possible since I did have big drops at first with low carb. I honestly thought when I looked at it that I would find that I lost more in the same amount if time in lc cuz that's how it felt and it was so easy. I was a little sad when the numbers looked the same. Calories were about the same both times, I think those charts were in there in the comments further down. One of the biggest differences and the reason I stay lc is that I don't feel like I'm starving all the time. I'm happy when I eat not miserable trying to choke down a bag of rice with veggies. Then feeling hungry 4 minutes later.
I thought the charts did show you lost more on lc in the same amount of time. Just the lc chart only really had the first two full months where the other one was like a whole year0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »
Bwahahahaha!
I love you guys!
Wiping tears...
I started higher but dropped to ketogenic levels within a few weeks because I was feeling better. Less is more for me. I felt better when carbs are low so I mostly keep them there.
I am staying very LCHF for the health benefits. I have insulin resistance which hasn't improved with weight loss so I need to stay very low carb. every few months I seem to drift over 30g of carbs per day and my BG does't do well with that.
I really like the appetite and carb suppressing of this woe. I can easily eat 3000kcal in a day so less hunger is quite helpful to me. Plus I seem to not gain on this woe with moderately high calories, even on those weeks when I've had a cup of macadamia nuts... per day.
Other health benefits included better skin, better knees, improved autoimmune arthritis and better menatl clarity... That last one was quite disturbing to notice. I was only 41 when I started this woe and to discover how foggy and slow I was before going very LCHF was really disturbing. It was even scarier when my husband noticed the difference. When other people are noticing something like that? That was a huge clue to sit up and take notice if I want to keep my mind. Yikes.
I don't really miss carbs too much. I can happily skip fruit and most baked goods. I miss veggies and icecream a bit but they aren't worth risking high BG and dementia like symptoms for.0 -
@Sunny_Bunny_ I only look at the time frame from start to where the one ends in beginning of June, at that point that was all I had logged. The other site doesn't let me adjust like I wanted to to match exactly. From March to June in the first I lost about 17 lbs then in the second set about 16 lbs. Give or take. It's not perfect. I was surprised the old charts were even still on the other site.0
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...primarily for weight loss. I found the chart that....hmmm...fitgoat? I don't know I really don't remember....posted extremely interesting. Seems like most people on here are going for keto....less than 20 carbs a day. I have also been doing that but I was considering going higher. Like 40 maybe. But primarily I'm trying to help my husband on this and I think he would be much happier starting out higher. I think I might be the minority here, and I was wondering why some people chose to start out at that extremely low 20 net carbs per day instead of reducing to like say 40 to 50? Just curious. I like to hear what other people's experiences are
I'm happier at higher. I think you should play around with it, see how you feel, and see what is comfortable and sustainable for you.0 -
...primarily for weight loss. I found the chart that....hmmm...fitgoat? I don't know I really don't remember....posted extremely interesting. Seems like most people on here are going for keto....less than 20 carbs a day. I have also been doing that but I was considering going higher. Like 40 maybe. But primarily I'm trying to help my husband on this and I think he would be much happier starting out higher. I think I might be the minority here, and I was wondering why some people chose to start out at that extremely low 20 net carbs per day instead of reducing to like say 40 to 50? Just curious. I like to hear what other people's experiences are
This one? http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10343022/recalibration-time-what-is-the-low-in-low-carb/p1
That was me, precisely because most people here aren't actually going for keto levels, but those of us on the lower end tend to be more vocal on here, and it's gotten to the point where people think that keto is required, and "higher carb" means 50g a day, neither of which are actually true.
There's a bit of a bias toward those of us on keto, in part because we tend to have more problems that are being resolved through this way of eating. You'll see a lot of us with Diabetes, PCOS, fibromyalgia, RA, IBS, and other "chronic"/"incurable" disorders at these lower levels. It also tends to be a bit more challenging (not just the way of eating, itself, but because it literally turns everything we've ever been taught on its head, so there's a huge psychological element, too) for those just starting out if they're going that low for whatever reason, so more questions come up.
If the only reason you and/or your husband is doing it is for weight loss, then hanging out in the 100g range is just fine. Setting the limit to 100g is, in my opinion, a good starting point, because it's low enough to force you to change your habits, but high enough to not be too intimidating and be more forgiving of stumbles as you learn where all the hidden sources of carbs are. You can then adjust up or down from there, depending on your personal needs.0 -
Great points, @Dragonwolf.0
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »There's actually a lot of members at higher levels.
I personally chose the Keto level initially as kind of a personal challenge and because I had a seriously bad sugar addiction. I was eating multiple boxes of movie theater sized candy a week. I'd eat some every single day and hide it in different places because I knew eating so much candy was a problem, but I didn't want my husband to know just how often I was eating it.
I had to try really hard not to eat the entire box so that it would last more than one day.
Anyway, I found that I was able to completely resist any candy temptation as long as I kept carbs really low. If I had more or if I had too much sweetened foods (low carb treats and such), that I would find myself craving sweets and generally feeling hungrier. I like being in control and the lower carbs give me that.
Then, as I learned more and noticed more of the benefits, I decided Keto is my lifelong plan for the mental benefits of ketosis.
Oh my gosh this sounds exactly like me with the candy (chocolate, biscuits etc...) I feel so ashamed but keep doing it and hiding it. It's so embarassing. But I'm on day 1 today and don't want to go back to the shame!0 -
I try and keep my total carbs under 100g. I did do keto levels for a while and it was easier to lose weight then at the lower level of carbs. But I'll keep that in my tool box if I ever really need it, such as a long plateau or if health conditions pop up that warrant it.0
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »There's actually a lot of members at higher levels.
I personally chose the Keto level initially as kind of a personal challenge and because I had a seriously bad sugar addiction. I was eating multiple boxes of movie theater sized candy a week. I'd eat some every single day and hide it in different places because I knew eating so much candy was a problem, but I didn't want my husband to know just how often I was eating it.
I had to try really hard not to eat the entire box so that it would last more than one day.
Anyway, I found that I was able to completely resist any candy temptation as long as I kept carbs really low. If I had more or if I had too much sweetened foods (low carb treats and such), that I would find myself craving sweets and generally feeling hungrier. I like being in control and the lower carbs give me that.
Then, as I learned more and noticed more of the benefits, I decided Keto is my lifelong plan for the mental benefits of ketosis.
Oh my gosh this sounds exactly like me with the candy (chocolate, biscuits etc...) I feel so ashamed but keep doing it and hiding it. It's so embarassing. But I'm on day 1 today and don't want to go back to the shame!
You can do it! I was super hard core with the sugar! Lol
I would find a reason to "have to" go to the store. I'd come home with tampons or something but have 4 boxes of candy in my car. 1 of them would be half devoured on the half mile drive home and I'd have some in my pocket so I could still eat them and not have to wait til the next day when I could get them out of my car.
I drew strength from people I cared about that we're going through much more difficult things. My niece was a recovering drug addict, just out of prison and doing well. Still is thank god! And my dad was being treated for lung cancer and couldn't stomach much food but was forcing down the bare minimum each day anyway.
I thought to myself "If I can't even just stop eating all this stupid candy that I don't actually want to eat, but my niece can stay clean and re adapt to her new life and my dad can feel like absolute hell but still make every effort to fight for life, then I can surely, just not eat candy!" Ugh! I hated that I even felt like it was hard to do! I was completely embarrassed by how weak and childish I started to feel. I literally got kinda mad at myself and said that's it! This is not the hardest thing I'm ever going to have to do in my life. I had to be successful or I had no right to expect my family to fight their much more challenging battles. Mine was so trivial by comparison.
Sorry I didn't mean to rant. This subject gets me every time!0 -
Nice heartfelt post @Sunny_Bunny. Definitely puts things into perspective xx0
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Wow powerful words @Sunny_Bunny_
We all can relate!0 -
@Sunny_Bunny_ inspiring people in your life. I think you are also one of them. Your kicking a food addiction is potentially harder than your niece's kicking drug addiction. I am not belittling her efforts either, just flagging that unfortunately for you and anyone struggling with food addiction, we can't decide one day to give up food completely. We still need to eat and we are around those food temptations every day. That is a huge achievement!!0
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@Sunny_Bunny_ It also helps to remember that the carbs in the candy were abetting that addiction -- HC really does affect how we think and feel, and logic goes out the window.0
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