"Cheat" Days - i.e. High Carb Days
T1DCarnivoreRunner
Posts: 11,502 Member
Does anyone here do this? I'm relatively new to low carb (just shy of 2 weeks) and have been pretty good about staying under 100g net carbs (some days a bit over and some days way under). The reason I started to go low carb is to better manage BG since I have both type 1 and type 2 diabetes. I noticed I'm becoming more carb sensitive, especially as I cut carbs - so a gram of carbs raises my BG much more than it used to.
As I did for decades prior to this, I can always take an extra insulin bolus to cover carbs. The bigger issue is timing of the BG rise and fall, but I have Symlin I can take to minimize the spike from a heavy carb meal.
So today I'm really craving McDonald's - specifically some double cheeseburgers and a shamrock shake. I might just give in... do others take days where you have high carbs? If yes, how often and how high of carb?
As I did for decades prior to this, I can always take an extra insulin bolus to cover carbs. The bigger issue is timing of the BG rise and fall, but I have Symlin I can take to minimize the spike from a heavy carb meal.
So today I'm really craving McDonald's - specifically some double cheeseburgers and a shamrock shake. I might just give in... do others take days where you have high carbs? If yes, how often and how high of carb?
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While some experienced people do, it's not recommended for people that are new to this. It only feeds the craving and continues the cycle. Try to get to 4-6 weeks, bare minimum, before you consider a high carb day.0
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There will be no more shamrock shakes in 4-6 weeks.
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In my experience, feeding cravings = never getting beyond the need to feed cravings.
Plus, realize what will actually happen in response to the sugar surge...
Sugar in - glucose up - insulin present - insulin resistance is still a factor even if improved - fat storage - elevated hyperinsulinemia continues - more severe cravings follow - fat loss progress is partially lost - then what follows???? What's the next "limited time special treat" ???0 -
I have found cheating on this WOE makes getting back on track really hard and usually not worth it. I took a cheat day around Thanksgiving after being super strict for 5 months. I didn't get back on plan until 20lbs gained back and my Dr. told me I was a type 2 diabetic two months later.
Nope. For me, not worth it. My birthday is coming up in two weeks and I've already told my family members no on the cake (which was really hard as I've been craving it for months).0 -
i had two nights this week where i drank alot of wine & ate beef lo mein for dinner. i had to start a new med, and i can't drink alcohol while i'm on it, so it was my last "hooray" for wine. i gained 2 lbs. so keep that in mind when you drink your shake.
(and i say WHEN because i know you're going to drink one!)0 -
I don't have any problems with cheat days. I have had 3 or 4 so far in the last few months (planned parties and what not), but I really enjoy this WOE so it is right back to LCHF for me the next day. I also try to make up for the carbs I eat with exercise in the next few days after a cheat day.
For example, tomorrow, I have a March Madness party with the guys from noon to about 2AM. There will be a lot of drinking, pizza, chips and other party items. I am going to hit the gym in the AM for fasted lifting and cardio, and make sure I eat a LCHF meal before going, but I am not going out of my way to avoid carbs at the party. On Sunday (after my hang over goes away), I'll hit up another round of fasted lifting/cardio and get back on meal plan. Ultimately, its 1 day, and if I prepare, I can lessen the damage.0 -
I think this WOE in particular has little leeway for cheating. I'm doing it for healthy weight. I am also committing to basically changing my life, so I am trying to come to grip with no more shakes...period. That being said, if I were going to do a planned cheat, I would at least lower my calories for that day and go right back to LCHF soon after, but that's just my personal preference.0
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I looked at the number of calories and carbs in a small shamrock shake. The carbs would fit into my plan of 100g or less of net carbs, but the calories would be all I could eat for lunch. So I decided to get a salad from Subway like I usually do.0
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I guess it really depends on how you view carbs and their effect on the body. I see them as detrimental to health and addictive. In a way, I have come to associate them with the same feelings as cigarettes. Sure, a couple cigarettes once in a while aren't likely to give me cancer, but they're also not good for me. I don't have "cheat days" with cigarettes since I quit smoking, and I wouldn't make plans to have one.
Carbs are much harder to abstain from, and even I have slipped. I do believe that it's playing with fire. In fact, a couple times a single slip has led to a prolonged relapse. But, I believe even a single day is bad for my health.
You, more than I, have a greater cause for concern about high carb days. I don't have to cope with diabetes on top of my addiction. You have personal experience with the fact that your body does not tolerate high-carb food and days. I am an ex-smoker who quit before experiencing any negative effects. You're an ex-smoker who quit after finding that you've started to develops COPD (Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease). For you, there is even more reason to believe there might be immediate harm from a slip.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »There will be no more shamrock shakes in 4-6 weeks.
I had an insane craving for one. I made my own with Breyer's CarbSmart ice cream (14 g carbs/ 8 net carbs if you don't subtract sugar alcohols), 1/4 tsp. mint extract, and 1/2 C. half-and-half or heavy cream. It's definitely not an everyday food, but it stopped me from running to McDonald's and satisfied the craving. I whipped a little heavy cream to put on top so it looked like the "real deal."0 -
I don't think of them as cheat days. I choose what I want to fuel my body with. Most of the time it's meat and cheese, coffee and cream, some veggies, the basic stuff. But sometimes I want a cupcake or ice cream or chips etc. Yes I can make lc versions of many things if I want to. However I have no issue with the intentional choice being made to consume something that is off plan. I do know when I do it's possible I won't feel great after and may take a day to get back at it. But one day will not kill me or prevent me from achieving my goals.
When I'm on point it's easy to say oh I don't eat that stuff and be strict. The times come though when I want something that other times I could skip.
Is it realistic though to say you will never ever have a shamrock shake ever again for the rest of your life?0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »There will be no more shamrock shakes in 4-6 weeks.
One morning, about six months into keto and shortly after I realized that I was never going off low-carb, I woke up in a cold-panic with the realization that I would never have another Twinkie in my life. I never even ate them all that much. It was just horrible to think that I would be "missing out" on them forever.
I have never had a Shamrock shake. I never will. I've never had a waffle from Waffle House. I never will. There's a lot of foods I will never have. It can be a little intimidating, honestly, at times. I wonder how bad I am missing out. Then, I just shove that out of my mind (as best I can) and remind myself that billions of humans have lived their whole lives without ever having these things. They lived great lives anyway.
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midwesterner85 wrote: »There will be no more shamrock shakes in 4-6 weeks.
I had an insane craving for one. I made my own with Breyer's CarbSmart ice cream (14 g carbs/ 8 net carbs if you don't subtract sugar alcohols), 1/4 tsp. mint extract, and 1/2 C. half-and-half or heavy cream. It's definitely not an everyday food, but it stopped me from running to McDonald's and satisfied the craving. I whipped a little heavy cream to put on top so it looked like the "real deal."
I live in a rural area, and I bet I can't find that here... 0 -
I, too, am resisting the call of the Shamrock Shake. It is my favorite. That and a filet-o-fish used to be my ultimate St. Paddy's Day hangover cure. Here are some options I'm going to try this year.
http://www.primallyinspired.com/copycat-shamrock-shake-paleo-healthy-version-vegan/
http://www.healthstartsinthekitchen.com/recipe/healthy-shamrock-shake-paleo-dairy-free-vegan/
There are a lot of others out there if you google low carb shamrock shake.
My husband is a Type 1 diabetic and we have been following this WOE since October. He wears a CGM (Dexcom) and his blood sugar line is almost a straight line with much lower insulin when he sticks to plan. Here's an interesting anecdote from a diabetic.http://diatribe.org/low-carb-vs-high-carb-my-surprising-24-day-diabetes-diet-battle He did a 12 day High Carb vs 12 day Low Carb experiment to track insulin and makes some terrific points about the low carb.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »There will be no more shamrock shakes in 4-6 weeks.
I had an insane craving for one. I made my own with Breyer's CarbSmart ice cream (14 g carbs/ 8 net carbs if you don't subtract sugar alcohols), 1/4 tsp. mint extract, and 1/2 C. half-and-half or heavy cream. It's definitely not an everyday food, but it stopped me from running to McDonald's and satisfied the craving. I whipped a little heavy cream to put on top so it looked like the "real deal."
I live in a rural area, and I bet I can't find that here...
Even some regular vanilla ice creams have 19g carbs or less so it wouldn't be that many more. Blue Bunny's regular vanilla has 15 total. Hood vanilla bean is 17 total. If you're limiting to 100gm that wouldn't kill your day. My grocery store doesn't always have the CarbSmart either.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »There will be no more shamrock shakes in 4-6 weeks.
Ever actually think about what's in a McDonald's shake? Corn syrup, corn syrup, and more corn syrup. Seriously. Oh, and blue and yellow dyes.
https://bamboocorefitness.com/this-is-why-you-should-never-drink-a-mcdonalds-shamrock-shake/Here is the full breakdown of what is in a McDonald’s Shamrock Shake:
(Note: Some ingredients such as sugar, high fructose corn syrup, carrageenan, and artificial flavors are repeated, which means that the final product has double and sometimes triple the amount of such ingredients. The ingredients below that are highlighted are linked to online resources.)
VANILLA REDUCED FAT ICE CREAM
Milk
Sugar
Cream
Nonfat milk solids
Corn syrup solids
Mono- and diglycerides
Guar gum
Dextrose
Sodium citrate
Artificial vanilla flavor
Sodium phosphate
Carrageenan
Disodium phosphate
Cellulose gum
Vitamin A palmitate
SHAMROCK SHAKE SYRUP
High fructose corn syrup
Corn syrup
Water
Sugar
Natural flavor (plant source)
Xanthan gum
Citric acid
Sodium benzoate (preservative)
Yellow 5 (Banned in Norway and Austria)
Blue 1 (Banned in Norway, Finland and France)
WHIPPED CREAM
Cream
Nonfat milk
Corn syrup
Sugar
High fructose corn syrup
Contains less than 1%: mono-and diglycerides
Carrageenan
Polysorbate-80
Beta carotene (color)
Natural (dairy and plant sources) and artificial flavor
Mixed tocopherols (Vitamin E) to protect flavor
Whipping propellant (nitrous oxide)
MARASCHINO CHERRY
Cherries
Water
Corn syrup
High fructose corn syrup
Sugar
Malic acid
Citric acid
Natural (plant source) and artificial flavors
Sodium benzoate (preservative)
Potassium sorbate (preservative)
Red 40
Sulfur dioxide as preservative (contains sulfites)
I don't know about you, but I don't find that particularly appealing, though I fully admit to giving in to cravings for a fast food shake once in a while (though I'm particularly a sucker for Arby's jamocha shakes).
If you really want a milk shake or ice cream or whatever, at least go with something higher quality. Your name is "midwesterner," so I assume you're actually in the midwest. See if your area has Jeni's ice cream in the stores (Kroger and possibly Giant Eagle are most likely to have them). It's still not great, but it's a much higher quality, with higher quality and overall better ingredients.
Or, better yet, make your own. Egg yolks, cream, and the flavoring and sweetener of your choice makes for a fantastic ice cream, which you can then use with more cream and/or milk, to make an infinitely better milkshake of your own.
The whole "limited time" thing is also purely marketing. It creates a sense of scarcity, designed entirely to trigger the exact reaction you're having. No, the shakes won't be available in 6 weeks, but you know what? They'll be available again next year, and the year after that, and the year after that, just like they were available last year and the year before and the year before that. Then, you can also make your own by adding some green food coloring and mint extract to a milk shake any time you wanted. The scarcity is completely and totally fabricated.0 -
I've never heard of Giant Eagle, but I'm pretty sure the nearest Kroger is a 90 min. drive. The ice cream would not survive the trip home.0
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midwesterner85 wrote: »There will be no more shamrock shakes in 4-6 weeks.
One morning, about six months into keto and shortly after I realized that I was never going off low-carb, I woke up in a cold-panic with the realization that I would never have another Twinkie in my life. I never even ate them all that much. It was just horrible to think that I would be "missing out" on them forever.
I have never had a Shamrock shake. I never will. I've never had a waffle from Waffle House. I never will. There's a lot of foods I will never have. It can be a little intimidating, honestly, at times. I wonder how bad I am missing out. Then, I just shove that out of my mind (as best I can) and remind myself that billions of humans have lived their whole lives without ever having these things. They lived great lives anyway.
I love this way of thinking. I had the same thoughts myself. I think of alcoholics and how the prospect of a life without alcohol must feel to them. I was never able to relate until I put it in these terms.
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Do whatever you can stick with. I'm 12 days in and I've had two high carb days and a moderate carb day (today). The other days have been low carb (less than 50).
Today was a day where I allowed myself some carbs. I had brown rice and beans in my burrito bowl. The other day I got a light frappucino and I still stayed under my carb goal (I had a free drink as part of my Starbucks rewards and I waited an entire week to use it).
Please rethink the whole "cheat day" thing- there is no such thing. If you view it as a cheat day you will likely overindulge. Moderate/High carb days can still be part of your dietary plan and you can still achieve your goals with them- it's not an off day. Enjoy your shamrock shake and get back to it tomorrow. You're human and it's okay to want these things.
My advice to you is to maybe eat a snack beforehand so you won't be as hungry when you go. That way you can have just one double cheeseburger and small shake to satisfy the craving.0 -
Giant Eagle is mostly an Ohio/PA grocery store. I haven't seen them much outside that area. So whatever grocery you have in the area that would be considered slightly more 'upscale' I would guess?0
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I see an argument about fitting things in but staying under the carb goal... That is an argument for a moderation diet, not for a change your way of eating diet. I think that's the difference between the approaches of absolutely not including cheats or choosing to do so. I am an absolutely no cheating, changing my way of eating/life approach. I do understand and agree with the fact that it's important to do what works for each of us. I mean, there's a box of dark chocolate protein bars in my kitchen that I used to love! They are 16g carbs, 7 of it is fiber... So I could do some math and make that fit plan of 20g total... But no amount of justifying will remove the 6g of sugar that is in each one. Or the soy proteins, soy lecithin, corn syrup, canola and soybean oil, wheat flakes, maltodextrin, "natural flavor" and whatever fructooligosaccharides are. But if I want to play around with macro math, I could be trying to fit them into my Keto life.I guess it really depends on how you view carbs and their effect on the body. I see them as detrimental to health and addictive. In a way, I have come to associate them with the same feelings as cigarettes. Sure, a couple cigarettes once in a while aren't likely to give me cancer, but they're also not good for me. I don't have "cheat days" with cigarettes since I quit smoking, and I wouldn't make plans to have one.
Carbs are much harder to abstain from, and even I have slipped. I do believe that it's playing with fire. In fact, a couple times a single slip has led to a prolonged relapse. But, I believe even a single day is bad for my health.
You, more than I, have a greater cause for concern about high carb days. I don't have to cope with diabetes on top of my addiction. You have personal experience with the fact that your body does not tolerate high-carb food and days. I am an ex-smoker who quit before experiencing any negative effects. You're an ex-smoker who quit after finding that you've started to develops COPD (Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease). For you, there is even more reason to believe there might be immediate harm from a slip.
This is exactly the way my thought process is about those kinds of "foods"0 -
The two are not mutually exclusive IMO. For some changing your way of eating may be eliminating carbs altogether and for others its eating. Good luck to those who can go the next 50 or so years not tasting a piece of bread but I am not one of those people. There are multiple roads to get to a destination.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I see an argument about fitting things in but staying under the carb goal... That is an argument for a moderation diet, not for a change your way of eating diet.
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I don't disagree with that for sure. But, there's a difference between tasting something (getting just a taste to satisfy wanting a taste of it) and eating a regular serving.Terpnista84 wrote: »
The two are not mutually exclusive IMO. For some changing your way of eating may be eliminating carbs altogether and for others its eating. Good luck to those who can go the next 50 or so years not tasting a piece of bread but I am not one of those people. There are multiple roads to get to a destination.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I see an argument about fitting things in but staying under the carb goal... That is an argument for a moderation diet, not for a change your way of eating diet.
And I definitely, personally could never allow myself to do something that made me seriously unwell.
I'm also like @FIT_Goat when he said "billions of people have gone their whole lives without having these things. They lived good lives anyway." Hell, even if they lived crappy lives, I doubt a shamrock shake was going to make any difference! lol
But seriously, there is never going to be anything that eating a certain off limits food will do for me that I would choose over the bad things it will do to me. I don't even battle with this question because I don't see any of that stuff as anything special at all. There is never a moment where the thought "I can't have that" enters my mind.
I say this as a person that was hoarding and hiding candy around my house and in my car less than one year ago. I have never allowed myself a cheat meal or day, and I fully believe that is the only reason I have been able to develop this kind of mindset that makes it so that I do not even view that stuff as food anymore.0 -
Aschindler412 wrote: »Giant Eagle is mostly an Ohio/PA grocery store. I haven't seen them much outside that area. So whatever grocery you have in the area that would be considered slightly more 'upscale' I would guess?
More or less. Doesn't need to be "upscale," per se, but Walmart isn't likely to carry it, and outside of the home area (ie - here in Columbus, Ohio), it's likely going to be in one of the bigger chains.
And for the record, Ohio is part of the midwest, even if The Weather Channel doesn't want to admit it.
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I agree Ohio is part of the midwest - I've just never heard of that particular store. I live in rural SW Iowa. There is a Hy-Vee and a Fareway. The Hy-Vee here does not have the variety as stores in bigger cities (which are still quite small by most standards) such as Des Moines or Omaha/Council Bluffs. There is a Wal-Mart about 25 miles from here, but it is a small Wal-Mart and does not have the same variety as stores in bigger cities like Des Moines or Omaha/Council Bluffs. Ice cream can survive a 25 mile drive, but not so much an 80-90 mile drive.0
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I wouldn't do it.
But my sister does something called Carbnite which allows for planned carb refuel during X hours (you'll want to research the specifics). I think it's ketogenic the rest of the time so you would need to lower carbs mostly and then plan your "cheats" into the Carbnite window. There are other similar programs if this is what you seek.
it just sounds like you have a lot of planned "cheating" coming up.0 -
If it were me, I'd have the burger or the shake, not both, and make room for it within my goals. Then it isn't cheating. Sometimes I'll split a treat with a friend.0
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I have a higher carb day once a week or every 2 weeks. I got the idea from the link below. I am only a couple kgs(4lbs) away from my goal weight, and it's slow going..
Bear in mind, I don't have diabetes or any health conditions, and having one higher carb day does not affect me at all in regards to cravings and such.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/refeeds-for-fat-loss-the-science-behind-leptin.html0 -
When were you diagnosed?
I just caught that you said you have both T1D and T2D. I'm assuming you were T1D and through insulin and high carb diet, aquired insulin resistance that then required more insulin to effectively control BG, creating hyperinsulinemia like with T2D, and progressing further. But I'm surprised you actually got a T2D diagnosis. My daughters Endo barely acknowledges her insulin resistance and the educators are very much against her low carbing. So stupid!
Anyway, I seriously think you're playing with fire with any thoughts of allowing these kinds of cheats. Insulin is not the answer. Of course you can take insulin to cover carbs, you've done that right? How'd that work out?
I'm sorry to be harsh, but I honestly think 100g carbs from all vegetables is even too much. You're going to chip away very very slowly at better health that way. And throw in cheats covered by insulin... Recipe for disaster.
I want you to succeed and that's why I'm taking a tough love attitude here. I just had the artificial sweetener talk with my daughter. Asking her to cut back on diet sodas and water flavorings. And that's not even real sugar. Her sugar cravings have gotten better quickly at less than 50g, but to get real improvement, it takes an understanding of what that stuff actually does in your body once it's in there. And all for what? A few minutes of tasting something good? So not worth it!0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »So today I'm really craving McDonald's - specifically some double cheeseburgers and a shamrock shake.
If you go to McDonald's, I strongly recommend that you have your double cheeseburgers protein style (with NO Bun and/or wrapped in a lettuce leaf) and that you avoid the Shamrock Shake. Make a healthy version of it at home with: 4-6 tablespoons heavy whipping cream, 3 ounces ice cubes, 1-2 tablespoons unflavored protein powder (or perhaps you have a low carb mint-flavored protein powder that you like?), 1 tablespoon olive oil (trust me here), dash of guar or xanthan gum (1/8 teaspoon), peppermint extract (1 teaspoon) and a couple drops of green food coloring. It will taste good and your body will be MUCH happier with you. It will allow you to indulge your craving while simultaneously allowing you to stay on track where your weight-loss efforts are concerned. Win-win.
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