Lab results (first labs post-keto) comparison
macchiatto
Posts: 2,890 Member
For those who love numbers like I do, here are my first set of labs post-keto with my previous set of labs for comparison.
For background:
When I was diagnosed with prediabetes in 2011, I weighed 150. At the time I did low carb/high protein, lost 13 lbs and reversed it in about 6 months. I went on to lose some more weight in 2013.
Labs listed below are my second most recent set, from 10/30/14. Weight was about 139.
Started LCHF/keto on 11/2/15 at 150.6.
Labs were done 3/22/16 at 131 lbs. (I had lost most of that weight by mid-January.)
Below I'll list the results from Oct. 2014 and Mar. 2016 side by side for comparison.
Total cholesterol: 144/174
Triglycerides: 80/68
HDL: 59/75 (Love seeing it so high!)
VLDL: 16/14
LDL: 69/85
LDL/HDL ratio: 1.2/1.13 (if my math is correct for the latter; it wasn't listed.)
Hemoglobin A1C: 5.4/5.5 (Surprised that one went up. Does that amount make a difference? I just don't like it edging closer to prediabetes range!)
Fasting glucose: 81/80
My new PCP did say this WOE seems to be working well and to stick with it.
Thoughts on the numbers?
For background:
When I was diagnosed with prediabetes in 2011, I weighed 150. At the time I did low carb/high protein, lost 13 lbs and reversed it in about 6 months. I went on to lose some more weight in 2013.
Labs listed below are my second most recent set, from 10/30/14. Weight was about 139.
Started LCHF/keto on 11/2/15 at 150.6.
Labs were done 3/22/16 at 131 lbs. (I had lost most of that weight by mid-January.)
Below I'll list the results from Oct. 2014 and Mar. 2016 side by side for comparison.
Total cholesterol: 144/174
Triglycerides: 80/68
HDL: 59/75 (Love seeing it so high!)
VLDL: 16/14
LDL: 69/85
LDL/HDL ratio: 1.2/1.13 (if my math is correct for the latter; it wasn't listed.)
Hemoglobin A1C: 5.4/5.5 (Surprised that one went up. Does that amount make a difference? I just don't like it edging closer to prediabetes range!)
Fasting glucose: 81/80
My new PCP did say this WOE seems to be working well and to stick with it.
Thoughts on the numbers?
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Looking good. Great job on getting that HDL up. I wouldn't worry about that tiny increase in the A1c at this point.0
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All your markers look good to me. Out of curiosity, what was your prediabetes dx based on? HbA1C, fasting glucose, or both?
Peter Attia writes about reasons his A1C was misleading here:
http://eatingacademy.com/personal/2016-update
As you can see my measured average glucose was 92 mg/dL, which imputes an A1C of 4.8%. At some point I may write about the dozen insights gleaned from CGM (and I think I mention a few in the podcasts), but here’s one: measured A1C is probably directionally valuable (you know, the difference between, say, 5% and 9%), but that’s about it. If your RBC (red blood cells) live longer than 90 days—mine live much longer since I have beta thal trait—your A1C will artificially reflect a higher average glucose. Conversely, if your RBC are large, the opposite occurs. (For those wondering, MCV, which is part of a standard CBC, shows you RBC size).
My A1C in standard blood tests routinely measures 5.5% to 6.0% (courtesy of my tiny RBCs), which poses a problem when applying for life insurance (prediabetic is defined as 5.7% to 6.4%). But with CGM, which is calibrated 2-3 times daily, my imputed A1C, which is much more reliable, varies from 4.6 to 4.9%. Big difference, huh?
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Thanks, @wabmester!
My prediabetes was actually based on a two-hour oral GTT. I think my A1C was actually normal at the time (5.6?) but my fasting glucose was 107 and at the 1-hr mark it was in the mid-140s. My PCP actually told me--even knowing both my parents are diabetic and I had frequent symptoms of hypoglycemia at the time--that the results were "normal." I did my own research, went on a low-carb diet and ended up switching PCP's.0 -
Looks really good!
Nice work. 0 -
OK I have to admit, I have a little bit of nagging uneasiness that my total cholesterol went up 30 points after less than 5 months of LCHF. It's not going to keep climbing, right? (Well, I don't mind if HDL does
but prefer if LDL doesn't keep going up that much that quickly.) It's going to level off before too long? 0 -
@macchiatto ... When my Total and LDL and HDL increased last week I mentioned to my PCP that I had read somewhere about the numbers normally rising after significant weight loss and that they would stabilize when the weight does ... she just nodded and said that made sense for the first two but was happy the hdl did too. We're waiting for the next results in three months.0
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@reblazed that's helpful, thanks! I didn't have my blood work results til after the PCP appt so her nurse just passed on a comment but I didn't have a chance to really talk to her about it.0
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Keto & HDL ?
My numbers have generally improved, but the HDL level remains anchored in the low 40s.
Before I start rooting around, does anyone have any simple insights? Thx!0 -
@RalfLott I am a poor example perhaps but here is my HDL numbers.
July 2013 - 36
July 2014 - 38 Pre Keto at this point but started Oct 2014
July 2015 - 56 9 months of Keto
Nov 2015 - 72 13 months of Keto.
LDL / Triglycerides for same 4 periods
155 / 109
146 / 209
323 / 121
228 / 052
Now that we know LDL has no prediction power on heart disease I am waiting on it to drop at some future test.0 -
@GaleHawkins thank you for sharing your numbers. That's nice to see that your LDL dropped so much between 9 and 13 months on keto while your HDL kept climbing. And yay for those low triglycerides! Mine were 217 a few years ago when I found out I had prediabetes so I'm glad they are staying lower now.0
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I've heard about LDL and triglycerides going up until weight stabalizes too.
Plus, you did not have your LDL broken down into the patterns. There is good LDL and less good LDL, with the good being the fluffier, larger pattern a and pattern b being smaller and denser. My bet is that your LDL pattern a has gone up - a good thing.
Peter Attia's take on it: http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the-straight-dope-on-cholesterol-part-v0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »@RalfLott I am a poor example perhaps but here is my HDL numbers.
July 2013 - 36
July 2014 - 38 Pre Keto at this point but started Oct 2014
July 2015 - 56 9 months of Keto
Nov 2015 - 72 13 months of Keto.
Now that we know LDL has no prediction power on heart disease I am waiting on it to drop at some future test.
Wow - nice going!
I have to wonder how primitive all this lipid tomfoolery and the shifting inferences will look in 20 years.... I hope we come around to the scenario in Sleeper during my lifetime. We're part way there already.... (from Jimmy Moore's channel):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yCeFmn_e2c
BTW, thanks for the tip on Keto Clarity. Lots of good info there.0 -
I've heard about LDL and triglycerides going up until weight stabalizes too.
Plus, you did not have your LDL broken down into the patterns. There is good LDL and less good LDL, with the good being the fluffier, larger pattern a and pattern b being smaller and denser. My bet is that your LDL pattern a has gone up - a good thing.
Peter Attia's take on it: http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the-straight-dope-on-cholesterol-part-v
Hopefully my pattern is good. Now that I have standard health care coverage again I hope I can get the more expensive lipid panel.
The link is awesome, thanks.
Others: Note Peter Attia states LDL values can predict heart health risks so I 'assume' I was wrong on that point. He is one doctor I will almost blindly follow. 0 -
Were your LDLs computed or directly tested? That made a bit of a difference (15pts) when I last tested.0
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I've heard about LDL and triglycerides going up until weight stabalizes too.
Plus, you did not have your LDL broken down into the patterns. There is good LDL and less good LDL, with the good being the fluffier, larger pattern a and pattern b being smaller and denser. My bet is that your LDL pattern a has gone up - a good thing.
Peter Attia's take on it: http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the-straight-dope-on-cholesterol-part-v
I did wonder about that. Is that hard to get tested? Maybe I'll ask for it next time. I've met my high deductible for this year thanks to expensive MS meds so at least my stuff is now covered 100% for the rest of this year (thankfully!).0 -
For reference: 48 year old female
1-20-16. 8-20-15. 1-9-15
Total. 181. 133. 169
HDL. 72. 50. 57
LDL. 98. 71. 97
Trig. 53. 60. 76
I began keto one year ago. You can see the 50 point increase on my total from August to Jan. It's the others that keep me from worrying about that. Have never had HDL that high, nor triglycerides that low. I'm not sweating it. The particle size of the LDL can be tested to determine if they are fluffy, or small. The fluffy are preferred. The book, "Cholesterol Clarity" discusses this and helped me with a general understanding.0 -
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GaleHawkins wrote: »Now that we know LDL has no prediction power on heart disease I am waiting on it to drop at some future test.
Here's an interesting observation in a study published in 2015 in the Annals of Nutrition & Metabolism (p 13):We have seen in this section that survival rate is definitely
better in elderly people with high total or LDL cholesterol
levels than in those with low levels. The proportion
of people with FH [familial hypercholesterolemia] or similar conditions
among the elderly population is much smaller than that among
younger populations, which explains why an inverse correlation
between total cholesterol (or LDL cholesterol)
and all-cause mortality becomes prominent with age in
all countries (see fig. 3-4 in Chapter 3).
High LDL cholesterol levels might also be related to
better cognitive function. The memory function of 193
functionally independent and community-dwelling elderly
participants aged ≥80 years was cross-sectionally
examined in the Key to Optimal Cognitive Aging
( KOCOA) Project, a prospective study undertaken in
Okinawa, Japan. High LDL cholesterol levels and low
triglyceride/HDL cholesterol ratios were associated with
high Scenery Picture Memory Test scores after adjustment
for many confounding factors. When viewed together
with the data presented above on cholesterol and
longevity, it seems clear that high cholesterol levels should
not be considered unhealthy especially in elderly people.0 -
macchiatto wrote: »I've heard about LDL and triglycerides going up until weight stabalizes too.
Plus, you did not have your LDL broken down into the patterns. There is good LDL and less good LDL, with the good being the fluffier, larger pattern a and pattern b being smaller and denser. My bet is that your LDL pattern a has gone up - a good thing.
Peter Attia's take on it: http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the-straight-dope-on-cholesterol-part-v
I did wonder about that. Is that hard to get tested? Maybe I'll ask for it next time. I've met my high deductible for this year thanks to expensive MS meds so at least my stuff is now covered 100% for the rest of this year (thankfully!).
i'm afraid that I have no idea. Mine's never been tested, and I'm up in Canada so getting labs are usually covered, it's just harder to get the tests you want done.
I have the usual cholesterol labs ordered for me, but I haven't done them yet. I don't place huge stock in the CAD cholesterol link, but I am still nervous about it since my cholesterol was pretty good before going very LCHF (except Lp a). It almost feels like the only direction I could go was for it to worsen. LOL 0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Now that we know LDL has no prediction power on heart disease I am waiting on it to drop at some future test.
Here's an interesting observation in a study published in 2015 in the Annals of Nutrition & Metabolism (p 13):We have seen in this section that survival rate is definitely
better in elderly people with high total or LDL cholesterol
levels than in those with low levels. The proportion
of people with FH [familial hypercholesterolemia] or similar conditions
among the elderly population is much smaller than that among
younger populations, which explains why an inverse correlation
between total cholesterol (or LDL cholesterol)
and all-cause mortality becomes prominent with age in
all countries (see fig. 3-4 in Chapter 3).
High LDL cholesterol levels might also be related to
better cognitive function. The memory function of 193
functionally independent and community-dwelling elderly
participants aged ≥80 years was cross-sectionally
examined in the Key to Optimal Cognitive Aging
( KOCOA) Project, a prospective study undertaken in
Okinawa, Japan. High LDL cholesterol levels and low
triglyceride/HDL cholesterol ratios were associated with
high Scenery Picture Memory Test scores after adjustment
for many confounding factors. When viewed together
with the data presented above on cholesterol and
longevity, it seems clear that high cholesterol levels should
not be considered unhealthy especially in elderly people.
While I have not seen any research on it some write books about statins being behind a good chunk of alzheimer's cases today. If I find it I will post but I think total cholesterol under 200 increases chance of dementia.
My BP was never really bad calling peaks like 135/90. Last reading was like 116/68 maybe.
I have been fish oil heavily since 1996 and never smoked, drank, done drugs or ran around with people who did those things.
The time I spent with Amway before they kicked me out may have saved my life because that was where I learned about fish oil.0 -
DH's cardiologist actually told him not to take fish oil supplements (but he is encouraged to eat fish twice a week) because it's linked to increase rates of prostate cancer.
Anyone else familiar with that? 0 -
macchiatto wrote: »DH's cardiologist actually told him not to take fish oil supplements (but he is encouraged to eat fish twice a week) because it's linked to increase rates of prostate cancer. Anyone else familiar with that?
Fish and Prostate Cancer Risk: Fact or Fiction
lifeextension.com/Featured-Articles/2013/8/Fish-and-Prostate-Cancer-Risk-Fact-or-Fiction/Page-01
drsinatra.com/debunking-the-cancer-myth-the-health-benefits-of-omega-3s-against-prostate-cancer/
drhyman.com/blog/2013/07/26/can-fish-oil-cause-prostate-cancer/
In light of the thoughts of that study posted being non science I will run with this two year newer research and keep popping the fish oil and krill oil. None of us would be doing LCHF if we listen to non science masquerading as real science.
nutraingredients.com/Research/Omega-3-may-help-fight-prostate-cancer
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GaleHawkins wrote: »Now that we know LDL has no prediction power on heart disease I am waiting on it to drop at some future test.
Here's an interesting observation in a study published in 2015 in the Annals of Nutrition & Metabolism (p 13):We have seen in this section that survival rate is definitely
better in elderly people with high total or LDL cholesterol
levels than in those with low levels. The proportion
of people with FH [familial hypercholesterolemia] or similar conditions
among the elderly population is much smaller than that among
younger populations, which explains why an inverse correlation
between total cholesterol (or LDL cholesterol)
and all-cause mortality becomes prominent with age in
all countries (see fig. 3-4 in Chapter 3).
High LDL cholesterol levels might also be related to
better cognitive function. The memory function of 193
functionally independent and community-dwelling elderly
participants aged ≥80 years was cross-sectionally
examined in the Key to Optimal Cognitive Aging
( KOCOA) Project, a prospective study undertaken in
Okinawa, Japan. High LDL cholesterol levels and low
triglyceride/HDL cholesterol ratios were associated with
high Scenery Picture Memory Test scores after adjustment
for many confounding factors. When viewed together
with the data presented above on cholesterol and
longevity, it seems clear that high cholesterol levels should
not be considered unhealthy especially in elderly people.
Agreed, cholesterol lowering meds are pretty redundant to be using especially in high doses for the elderly...the Framingham CV Risk calculator doesn't seem to realize that 10 year mortality won't matter much in people with only a few years left to live. Minimum dosing or every other day dosing provides about the same benefit if used at all.
Another interesting aspect about cholesterol is that people with abnormally low cholesterol have higher tendency for criminal activity (really bizarre)0 -
Thanks, @GaleHawkins! I'll pass those on to DH.0
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macchiatto wrote: »Thanks, @GaleHawkins! I'll pass those on to DH.
I wish him the best in the mist of confusing medical info. I expect I am walking and talking today because of 20 years of very heavy fish oil capsules usage. When I went off sugar and all grains late 2014 and really knocked the inflammation down the body was able to start recovering. While it may have not been the fish oil I really do not know any 65 year old guys in my area that take no Rx meds and are not under a doctor's care for any health concern.
I got off of Indocin Sept 2004 after a serious fall and went to 20 capsules of fish oil daily to take a bite off the edge of my pain. drugs.com/mtm/indomethacin.html
Nothing has managed my pain levels like LCHF has for the past 18 months that I have been on the WOE. I added Chanca Piedra about a month ago and it seems to be addressing the pain that may be related to calcium deposits because I am moving more freely. rain-tree.com/chanca-techreport.pdf0 -
I just had blood drawn today to check cholesterol. I'm excited to see the new numbers, hoping they're not scary. I'll post my comparison as you did yours. My last lab work was in early October. Yours look great!0
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GaleHawkins wrote: »I really do not know any 65 year old guys in my area that take no Rx meds and are not under a doctor's care for any health concern.
Nor do I.
What an inspiration you are!0 -
The problem with some elderly, like my parents, believe the medications they take for type 2 diabetes gives them permission to eat what they want! We have a generation of people who think medicine is taking care of them!! @GaleHawkins is a true inspiration!!0
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I just had blood drawn today to check cholesterol. I'm excited to see the new numbers, hoping they're not scary. I'll post my comparison as you did yours. My last lab work was in early October. Yours look great!
Thanks! I'll look forward to seeing your comparison as well.
And thanks, @GaleHawkins! That's great you have figured out what helped you.0
