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An Ultimate Aquabike?
Robertus
Posts: 558 Member
Hi, all!
Background
Long-term misdiagnosed running injury eventually led to major foot and ankle reconstruction surgery, which limits my ankle range of motion and prevents me from running. So I want to design an aquabike that is comparable to an Ironman triathlon, but without the running part. I have done an Olympic triathlon, but had to walk the run part. I could walk the 26.2-mile marathon of a Ironman, but I don't know if I would finish it on time.
I've heard that a 10k (6.2 mile) swim is supposed to be roughly equivalent to running a 26.2-mile marathon.
Do most people consider the 112-mile bike race of an Ironman to be equivalent in energy expenditure to the 26.2 mile marathon run segment?
So if I do a 15k swim and 168-mile bike ride (112 x 1.5), would that be something like what one might call an Ultimate or Ironman Aquabike?
All the organized Aquabike events that I've seen are much shorter distances. Is there already something like what I am calling an Ultimate Aquabike?
Other ideas?
PS: Feel free to add me as a friend.
Background
Long-term misdiagnosed running injury eventually led to major foot and ankle reconstruction surgery, which limits my ankle range of motion and prevents me from running. So I want to design an aquabike that is comparable to an Ironman triathlon, but without the running part. I have done an Olympic triathlon, but had to walk the run part. I could walk the 26.2-mile marathon of a Ironman, but I don't know if I would finish it on time.
I've heard that a 10k (6.2 mile) swim is supposed to be roughly equivalent to running a 26.2-mile marathon.
Do most people consider the 112-mile bike race of an Ironman to be equivalent in energy expenditure to the 26.2 mile marathon run segment?
So if I do a 15k swim and 168-mile bike ride (112 x 1.5), would that be something like what one might call an Ultimate or Ironman Aquabike?
All the organized Aquabike events that I've seen are much shorter distances. Is there already something like what I am calling an Ultimate Aquabike?
Other ideas?
PS: Feel free to add me as a friend.
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Replies
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Here's a simple analysis by a guy who has given some well founded thought to the inequalities of the Ironman:the time lost by the MEDIAN swimmer to the best swimmer should be the same as the time lost by the MEDIAN biker or runner to the fastest biker or runner in any particular triathlon. For example, at the most recent Ironman Florida, 1991 people finished the swim. The media swimmer would then be number 995 out of the water. His time was 1:14:54, compared to the 49:54 swum by James Bonney. Thus, the time lost by the median swimmer was 25 minutes exactly. Compare this to the median bikers and runners, who lost 1:26:36 and 1:54:26, respectively, to the top times in each of their legs. Fair to swimmers? Not even close. ...
Note: What may seem surprising about the Florida IM results is that the median runner lost almost 30 minutes more than the median biker. Remember that Florida is an extremely flat bike course, and the times on the bike tend to reflect that. If the course had been a little bit hillier, you'd see some more separation between the men and the boys on the bike leg.
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/?post=79802#p79802
So a more challenging bike ride with significant hill-climbs might be more 'equal' to the marathon component of an Ironman.
I'm also thinking that since the run is the last component of an Ironman, and the participants are approaching exhaustion, the separation between an elite winner and a more average median Ironman athelete might also tend to be more noticeable at this final stage of the race.
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The other thing I'm thinking about is breaking up the swimming and biking components, so, for example, swim 5k, bike 56 miles, swim 5k, bike 56 miles, swim 5k, bike 56 miles.
Keeping in mind that the biking component of an Ironman might not be equal to the marathon running component, and using round numbers, we could stick to the 3 x 5k swimming distances but increase the biking distance to 3x 100k and use a hilly course.
Or, if a hilly course is not available, we could use a 200 mile total biking distance, which, split into equal thirds, would be: swim 3.1 miles, bike 66.7 miles, swim 3.1 miles, bike 66.7 miles, swim 3.1 miles, bike 66.7 miles.
Breaking it up into shorter segments also makes it easier for people to compete in the shorter total distances.0 -
Posting this here for ease of reference:Most Ironman events have a strict time limit of 17 hours to complete the race. The race typically starts at 7:00 a.m.; the mandatory swim cut off for the 2.4-mile (3.9 km) swim is 9:20 a.m. (2 hours 20 minutes), the mandatory bike cut off time is 5:30 p.m. (8 hours 10 minutes), and the mandatory marathon cut off is midnight (6 hours 30 minutes). Any participant who manages to complete the triathlon within these timings becomes an Ironman.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon0 -
Trying to understand what you are asking here?
If you have some specific questions about racing an Ironman I can try to help. But other than that I have no idea what this all is.
As far as energy expenditure, it is nearly impossible to quantify the energy expenditure for each leg to any useful degree. As least as far as the actual physiological cost is for each one. Unlike an open marathon race, or a bike race, the components here stack on top of each other and seem to come out more than just the sum of the parts.
I can tell you that my strategy in an Ironman is to use the swim for the warmup. I aim to get myself out of the water near the front of the race, but I don't try to win in the water.
On the bike my goal is to get through it with as little extra energy spent as possible. This means steady power application, no spiking, staying well below LT even on climbs. The goal being to get off the bike feeling fresh enough to run a fast marathon without walking.0 -
In terms of toll on my body, the impact of running is far more stressful than swimming or biking both in training and racing. One of my training partners says that the purpose of all that swimming and biking is just to get you tired before the real race starts on the run. Maybe a river swim with part of it upstream or an ocean swim with tidal current followed by a hilly ride. This sounds like the story behind the original IM idea - who's the best athlete?0
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Look into steelman or events like that
http://humanrace.co.uk/event/steelman/
http://www.withoutlimits.co/#!harvest-moon-triathlon-duathlon--aqua/c1hxw
http://mititanium.com
beyond 2.4 miles of swimming you are looking into maybe adventure racing stuff.
You can always just swim the English Channel and Ride to Paris - there is an event like that.0 -
I'm just trying to design an Aquabike that is at least as challenging as an Ironman triathlon. I also want the swimming and biking components to be roughly comparable in challenge, unlike the Ironman triathlon that greatly minimizes the swimming component.Trying to understand what you are asking here?
If you have some specific questions about racing an Ironman I can try to help. But other than that I have no idea what this all is.0 -
The impact of running has already taken its toll on me, unfortunately.tri4life854 wrote: »In terms of toll on my body, the impact of running is far more stressful than swimming or biking both in training and racing. One of my training partners says that the purpose of all that swimming and biking is just to get you tired before the real race starts on the run. Maybe a river swim with part of it upstream or an ocean swim with tidal current followed by a hilly ride. This sounds like the story behind the original IM idea - who's the best athlete?0 -
I've done a Steelman open water swim (5k, 3.1 miles) and am currently training for a 10k swim (6.2 miles). Longest training distance so far is 5.4 miles (3 hours) swimming.EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Look into steelman or events like that
http://humanrace.co.uk/event/steelman/
http://www.withoutlimits.co/#!harvest-moon-triathlon-duathlon--aqua/c1hxw
http://mititanium.com
beyond 2.4 miles of swimming you are looking into maybe adventure racing stuff.
You can always just swim the English Channel and Ride to Paris - there is an event like that.
I will look into the English Channel swim + bike ride to Paris. Thanks! That may be beyond my capabilities, but it is always good to have high goals.0 -
This sounds like the last two parts of the Arch to Arc Enduroman. Running from the Marble Arch in London to Dover (140 km / 87 miles), swim the English Channel from Dover to Calais (33,8 km / 21 miles), then bike from Calais to Paris (290 km / 180 miles).I will look into the English Channel swim + bike ride to Paris. Thanks! That may be beyond my capabilities, but it is always good to have high goals.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enduroman0 -
I've done a Steelman open water swim (5k, 3.1 miles) and am currently training for a 10k swim (6.2 miles). Longest training distance so far is 5.4 miles (3 hours) swimming.EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Look into steelman or events like that
http://humanrace.co.uk/event/steelman/
http://www.withoutlimits.co/#!harvest-moon-triathlon-duathlon--aqua/c1hxw
http://mititanium.com
beyond 2.4 miles of swimming you are looking into maybe adventure racing stuff.
You can always just swim the English Channel and Ride to Paris - there is an event like that.
I will look into the English Channel swim + bike ride to Paris. Thanks! That may be beyond my capabilities, but it is always good to have high goals.
Are you referring to the Steelman swim in Lake Nockamixon? If so... Hi Neighbor! I live not far from there and have done the Steelman triathlon (olympic) for the past 6 years.
I don't think you are going to be able to replicate the fatigue aspect of an Ironman without the run. It really is the run that breaks everyone down.0 -
Hey, neighbor! Yes, I did their Steelman 3.1 mile swim and the Olympic triathlon, both for the first time last summer. But I had to walk the running part of the tri because of my foot and ankle reconstruction surgery. The titanium rods in my ankle keep it from being able to flex enough to run. You really don't think 15 km (9.3 miles) of race swimming will cause enough fatigue?
I've done a Steelman open water swim (5k, 3.1 miles) and am currently training for a 10k swim (6.2 miles). Longest training distance so far is 5.4 miles (3 hours) swimming.EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Look into steelman or events like that
http://humanrace.co.uk/event/steelman/
http://www.withoutlimits.co/#!harvest-moon-triathlon-duathlon--aqua/c1hxw
http://mititanium.com
beyond 2.4 miles of swimming you are looking into maybe adventure racing stuff.
You can always just swim the English Channel and Ride to Paris - there is an event like that.
I will look into the English Channel swim + bike ride to Paris. Thanks! That may be beyond my capabilities, but it is always good to have high goals.
Are you referring to the Steelman swim in Lake Nockamixon? If so... Hi Neighbor! I live not far from there and have done the Steelman triathlon (olympic) for the past 6 years.
I don't think you are going to be able to replicate the fatigue aspect of an Ironman without the run. It really is the run that breaks everyone down.0 -
Hey, neighbor! Yes, I did their Steelman 3.1 mile swim and the Olympic triathlon, both for the first time last summer. But I had to walk the running part of the tri because of my foot and ankle reconstruction surgery. The titanium rods in my ankle keep it from being able to flex enough to run. You really don't think 15 km (9.3 miles) of race swimming will cause enough fatigue?
I've done a Steelman open water swim (5k, 3.1 miles) and am currently training for a 10k swim (6.2 miles). Longest training distance so far is 5.4 miles (3 hours) swimming.EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Look into steelman or events like that
http://humanrace.co.uk/event/steelman/
http://www.withoutlimits.co/#!harvest-moon-triathlon-duathlon--aqua/c1hxw
http://mititanium.com
beyond 2.4 miles of swimming you are looking into maybe adventure racing stuff.
You can always just swim the English Channel and Ride to Paris - there is an event like that.
I will look into the English Channel swim + bike ride to Paris. Thanks! That may be beyond my capabilities, but it is always good to have high goals.
Are you referring to the Steelman swim in Lake Nockamixon? If so... Hi Neighbor! I live not far from there and have done the Steelman triathlon (olympic) for the past 6 years.
I don't think you are going to be able to replicate the fatigue aspect of an Ironman without the run. It really is the run that breaks everyone down.
It's not that it won't cause the same level of fatigue. It is a different kind of fatigue. Running is going to generate a different type of body stress than just swimming and biking. If you want to see what an equivalent calorie burn for a day would be I guess we can try to compare that.
I just went back and looked at my calorie burn for my last full Ironman. Assuming the estimates that I get out of my Garmin are accurate, in 9:57:49 of movement from starting gun to finish line I burned ~6500 calories. So about 650/hr. Of that, 2400 of them were during the run.
So you could, in theory, double the swim (I got about 650 from the swim) and extend the bike to 170 miles. That might be a "calorie equivalent" day. But what you will miss is the beating your body takes from the 26 miles of actual running. In my experience, that is the most stressful part of the race on your body, and the part that is the hardest to recover from.
That's funny about the Steelman Oly. I was there last year managed my highest placement ever 12th overall and 2nd in age group M35-39.0 -
I'm older than you and have already beaten my body up too much through running! I'm primarily interested in the cardiovascular fitness and avoiding injuries at this point in my life. In order to make the swimming portion equivalent to the running part, you would need not to double the swimming distance, but to approach tripling it. 10k (6.2 miles) is generally considered equivalent to running a marathon, 'though some say more. Since I am eliminating the running portion, I am planning on a 15k swim, which is nearly 4x the distance of the Ironman swim.
Hey, neighbor! Yes, I did their Steelman 3.1 mile swim and the Olympic triathlon, both for the first time last summer. But I had to walk the running part of the tri because of my foot and ankle reconstruction surgery. The titanium rods in my ankle keep it from being able to flex enough to run. You really don't think 15 km (9.3 miles) of race swimming will cause enough fatigue?
I've done a Steelman open water swim (5k, 3.1 miles) and am currently training for a 10k swim (6.2 miles). Longest training distance so far is 5.4 miles (3 hours) swimming.EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Look into steelman or events like that
http://humanrace.co.uk/event/steelman/
http://www.withoutlimits.co/#!harvest-moon-triathlon-duathlon--aqua/c1hxw
http://mititanium.com
beyond 2.4 miles of swimming you are looking into maybe adventure racing stuff.
You can always just swim the English Channel and Ride to Paris - there is an event like that.
I will look into the English Channel swim + bike ride to Paris. Thanks! That may be beyond my capabilities, but it is always good to have high goals.
Are you referring to the Steelman swim in Lake Nockamixon? If so... Hi Neighbor! I live not far from there and have done the Steelman triathlon (olympic) for the past 6 years.
I don't think you are going to be able to replicate the fatigue aspect of an Ironman without the run. It really is the run that breaks everyone down.
It's not that it won't cause the same level of fatigue. It is a different kind of fatigue. Running is going to generate a different type of body stress than just swimming and biking. If you want to see what an equivalent calorie burn for a day would be I guess we can try to compare that.
I just went back and looked at my calorie burn for my last full Ironman. Assuming the estimates that I get out of my Garmin are accurate, in 9:57:49 of movement from starting gun to finish line I burned ~6500 calories. So about 650/hr. Of that, 2400 of them were during the run.
So you could, in theory, double the swim (I got about 650 from the swim) and extend the bike to 170 miles. That might be a "calorie equivalent" day. But what you will miss is the beating your body takes from the 26 miles of actual running. In my experience, that is the most stressful part of the race on your body, and the part that is the hardest to recover from.
That's funny about the Steelman Oly. I was there last year managed my highest placement ever 12th overall and 2nd in age group M35-39.
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I just don't like swimming *that* much to do it for that long. I would personally prefer to lengthen the bike
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I'm doing that too. 1.5 x marathon swim distance and 1.5 x Ironman biking distance.I just don't like swimming *that* much to do it for that long. I would personally prefer to lengthen the bike
The other idea I am thinking about is adding a kayaking portion for increasing the amount of upper body strength and stamina needed. Then I would not need to increase the swim and biking distances by as much, but I still would, I think.
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This discussion has been closed.