Slow the F down!
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wanderinjack
Posts: 248 Member
Two of my favorite health and fitness gurus got together for this great podcast episode. The takeaway for me is.... to improve speed, endurance, health and happiness, slow the "F" down! http://fatburningman.com/mark-sisson-the-carb-loading-myth-how-to-fuel-athletics-with-fat-advanced-heart-rate-training/
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I'll listen to it later today. Thanks for posting it.0
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Downloading it for my stroll.0
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Can you summarize this a bit? I actually don't listen to podcasts/watch videos since most of my online time is at work. (Don't tell my boss.)
I'm wondering specifically if "slow the F down" refers to exercise and if it runs contrary to the HIIT recommendation that is so prevalent on keto boards.0 -
There's a transcript. He's basically just saying to use the Maffetone formula of 180-age as a heart rate target to increase fat burning.
http://philmaffetone.com/180-formula/
What he doesn't tell you is that low-carbers can burn fat at much higher heart rates:
https://www.ultrarunning.com/features/health-and-nutrition/the-emerging-science-on-fat-adaptation/
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I have inappropriate sinus tachycardia. So 180-38 would be 142 for me. 142 is basically my walking at a slow to average speed heart rate. In fact it would be almost impossible for me to keep that heart rate unless I was slowly walking on flat ground. During my stress test I hit my target heart rate in 20 seconds of starting the test. I hit 100% within 6 minutes and we had to stop the test. The sinus rhythm is normal so the doctor said it's nothing really dangerous and to just to try to limit times when it gets over 185 ish. I like to run on trails and it often gets in the 180s (sometimes over). So is there basically no reason other than enjoyment for me to do cardio?
Another thing is that I have been keto for 7 months. I typically eat no more than 30 carbs a day total. Wouldn't I run out of glucose to burn pretty quickly?0 -
Another thing is that I have been keto for 7 months. I typically eat no more than 30 carbs a day total. Wouldn't I run out of glucose to burn pretty quickly?
Yup, you'll deplete liver glycogen. The main effect of that is that it forces your brain to switch to ketones.
Your muscles, on the other hand, won't deplete their local stores of glycogen unless you get your heart rate way up there. It's anaerobic exercise (like weight lifting and sprinting) that depletes muscle glycogen.
So how do the muscles adapt to fat and what triggers the adaptation? AFAIK, the adaptation is mitochonidrial biogenesis -- an increase in mitochondrial density in muscle tissue.
The trigger for mitochondrial biogenesis is apparently oxidative stress. I.e., both long-duration exercise and high-intensity exercise will trigger the adaptation.
The exact opposite of Sisson's advice.
So, speed the F up.
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The best advise is probably to run some experiments on yourself and see the results. My wife and I saw results rather quickly. All this comes from Dr. Phil Maffetone who wrote about this in a book coauthored with world champion triathlete Mark Allen. Here is an article from Maffetone's website: http://philmaffetone.com/want-speed-slow-down/0
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Btw, I was one of those 30% showing up at marathons obese and couldn't figure out what was wrong....chronic cardio was the problem. But that was also before I got fat adapted.0
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What he doesn't tell you is that low-carbers can burn fat at much higher heart rates:
https://www.ultrarunning.com/features/health-and-nutrition/the-emerging-science-on-fat-adaptation/
Wow!! This really cool stuff!! Thanks for sharing!!0 -
I think Sisson's advice is great if you're on a higher-carb diet. But low-carbers are almost a different species. Our workouts can be higher intensity and we'll still burn fat, have more endurance, and generally be putting less stress on our systems. 0
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After I read a mouse study about mitochondrial biogenesis last winter, I've consciously tried to train like @wabmester said above. Longer sessions and sometimes hard sprinting.
More mitochondria = bigger burns without more muscle fiber!
...I deffo don't have to be so careful with calories anymore...
Personally, I think HR is a too finicky variable to be taken too literally. I can't "get it up" when too lil rest since last sprint session. Drink coffee +5bpm etc. I just noticed my gym put my max pulse to 191. I'm 45 yo. According to standard 220-age= 175. Lol.
For us amateurs, I think a varied training is the best for overall health.
Edit: Forgot to say that I think mitochondrial biogenesis will occur whenever you force the body out of comfort zone. If it's too comfy or easy you don't give the body an incentive to create more energy factories. This applies to everyone, no matter experience level, is my guess.1 -
I think Sisson's advice is great if you're on a higher-carb diet. But low-carbers are almost a different species. Our workouts can be higher intensity and we'll still burn fat, have more endurance, and generally be putting less stress on our systems.
The MAF method was designed especially for fat burners. http://philmaffetone.com/future-fat-burning/1 -
wanderinjack wrote: »The MAF method was designed especially for fat burners. http://philmaffetone.com/future-fat-burning/
I understand he takes a "holistic" approach -- both dietary changes and his low-HR training. We know the effects of the dietary changes. There are also a few studies on fat-adaptation, and they seem to suggest 3-4 weeks of high-intensity exercise coupled with carb restriction leads to fat adaptation.
Are there any studies that suggest his low-HR training alone has any benefit?
I may have to read one of his books.
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Thanks for sharing @wanderinjack. My last half was disastrous and I was looking for a different approach. Now that I have hopefully transitioned to a fat burner, I am going to give this a try. I bought the book! I was one of those carrying an extra 30 lbs at the start line, after sometimes putting in 200 mile months. I am tired of putting in a lot of hard miles and not seeing faster results. I've lost half the weight I need to so we'll see how the training goes.1
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wanderinjack wrote: »The MAF method was designed especially for fat burners. http://philmaffetone.com/future-fat-burning/
Are there any studies that suggest his low-HR training alone has any benefit?
I may have to read one of his books.
Many of the top triathletes in the world have embraced this, Mike Pigg, Andrew McNaughton and ... even the legend, Mark Allen.1 -
wanderinjack wrote: »Many of the top triathletes in the world have embraced this, Mike Pigg, Andrew McNaughton and ... even the legend, Mark Allen.
I took a quick look at all three. All of them changed their diet (dropped sugar, lower carb, etc).
A good interview with Mark Allen here:
http://philmaffetone.com/alleninterview/
MA: I also think there is a certain amount of misunderstanding to his training philosophies. When you have a partial understanding about training your aerobic system and people say ‘How can you race well if all you do is train at the slow and steady stuff?’ First off, it is not about training slow. Second, he recognizes that you have to do speed work. That is part of what he tells you to do. People often miss that part of it.
So it sounds like the low-HR training is still controversial, and these guys still do speed work.
In the end, I'm not sure there's a big difference compared to what I do now. I try to go hard/fast 1-2X per week and easy/slow around 3X per week to recover.
I'd still love to see some science to support the low-HR training. I'll check out his books.0 -
Here's more:
http://youtu.be/Y6U728AZnV0 0 -
I think all these guys agree that periodic interval training is just fine.0
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I've gotten just the opposite effect after the first two weeks, my heart rate JUMPED and my speed slowed. I am e-mailing both Dr. Maffetone and Mark for some help.0
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Interesting, btw... When I've emailed Maffetone in the past I've gotten a response within about 4 days. Pretty imprssive.0
