Insomnia worse with reduced carbs
LauraCoth
Posts: 303 Member
When I cut my carbs a couple of days ago -- not drastically, just to around 50-60 per day -- I stopped sleeping almost completely. When I do sleep it's badly broken and I wake up every half hour or so. I was suffering from moderate insomnia already, but holy COW is it bad now!
Is there a specific known reason for this, or am I just up a creek? Will it pass?
Is there a specific known reason for this, or am I just up a creek? Will it pass?
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It's a known problem, and can be anywhere from very mild, to ridiculously severe. I've seen several recommendations on how to handle it, but I've just been making myself deal with it.
Parse through this, and there are a bunch of ideas that have worked for some: https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/1jetd0/update_been_keto_for_a_week_can_no_longer_sleep/0 -
Thanks. Ridiculously severe about sums it up.
I did read though the thread, but I already take melatonin, magnesium and other things for sleep (chronic issue), don't drink alcohol, only one coffee prior to 9:00 a.m. and so on.
A lot of the comments on that thread related to having more energy with less sleep. Must be nice! Unfortunately, I have none. Zero. Basket case. I was out in the car today and realized that I shouldn't be on the road.0 -
It's a hormonal thing. Some combination of melatonin, insulin, and cortisol. You want to minimize cortisol (stress), and you want to ensure your circadian rhythm is entrained to both light and food intake.
The usual ways to reduce stress should help, but both calorie restriction and carb restriction will increase stress and cortisol levels.
Personally, my sleep improved a LOT by reducing exposure to blue light at night (https://justgetflux.com/) and increasing exposure to sunlight during the day while I was low-carb and exercising daily.
Food intake also regulates your biological clock. Restricting your eating window to 8-12 hours/day may help (e.g., no late-night snacks).5 -
Yeah, I definitely have adrenal issues already, and I guess my blood sugar might well be making things worse. I try not to snack at night but I have been absolutely ravenous (to the point pf being painful) for the last three days and have had to break down and eat cheese at night just to stop the hunger.0
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Here's a little from the chapter about sleep in The Bulletproof Diet regarding supplements that may help.
There's a lot more information in that chapter. A few more supplements are discussed and other tips like Wabmester mentioned as well.2 -
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I slept eating 500 grams of carbs in a day just fine and I sleep just fine eat <50 grams of carbs so there must be something at issue with some people that is more complicated than just the level of carbs one is eating.1
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GaleHawkins wrote: »I slept eating 500 grams of carbs in a day just fine and I sleep just fine eat <50 grams of carbs so there must be something at issue with some people that is more complicated than just the level of carbs one is eating.
My sleep seemed to improve.1 -
My sleep is about the same as before - which means it's still downright awful. I get 4 hrs or less most nights.0
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My sleep has been awful for years, too, never mind any dietary changes.
Right now I take melatonin 1 mg, valerian 300 mg. Ashwaghanda 750 mg, Tryptophan 3 gm (prescription), Holy Basil, and oral progesterone for sleep. I tried adding in GABA, but it did nothing. Last year after I began the progesterone I slept like a log for a whole year and then it began slipping away again in January.
And of course the Trouble with Tryptophan is that you need to take it with carbs. But normally I can get 5-6 hours a night and sometimes even 7 or 8. Now I'm lucky if I sleep for three hours, and it's non-continuous sleep.
I've changed my diet now because my ND is hoping that removing anything inflammatory from my diet and getting sugars down to a minimum will ultimately help me sleep. My GP, excellent though he is, is at a loss but at least he is open-minded enough to work with me and my ND's recommendations.
Ah well, I guess I'll get past it. Or not. We'll see.0 -
I know for me it was short lived, while keto it was an issue in the beginning but then settled out. It sounds like yours is much more complex, I hope it clears up for you soon0
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Yes, it seems to have resolved a bit, thank you.
I slept a good 6 hours last night and as a bonus am not ravenous today. I cheated just before bed and ate a tablespoon + of hazelnut butter that I didn't log, bumping my calories up over the limit but staying fairly close to my carb parameters.
I'm not aiming for keto, per se. I would like to lose about 15 pounds (which is a lot, on my frame) but my primary goal is to get my health in order. I'm taking my carbs down slowly since my body over-reacts to just about anything -- water, sugar, medications; you name it. But even getting below 75 total carbs seem to have sent me into overdrive (or underdrive, as the case may be).2 -
I had insomnia from age 5 to 35, then miraculously started falling asleep and staying asleep one day. Then last year when I went from low carb to very low carb, my insomnia reared its ugly head. After about 5 months at keto level carbs things seemed to settle down for me, I haven't had any sleep issues in a couple months now. I hope it gets better for you soon!3
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That's really hard. However I've read some studies that suggest the natural sleep cycle for humans is a first sleep and a second sleep with appx an 1 1/2 -3 hours of wakefulness. I extended nursed and was in this pattern for 2 1/2 years and the worst torture was believing my sleep was "supposed" to look a certain way.
I'm very weary of melatonin as a supplement because it is helpful in the initial getting to sleep but can signal you to wake up before your actually ready to. I wish I had specific articles to reference but I'm feeling lazy2 -
My ND puts me on 1 mg (no more) for short periods of time when my sleep is really bad and then stops me. I find the low dose far more effective than anything higher.
I've recently heard it said that the "real" human sleep cycle is in two sleeps, but I've never seen it documented anywhere. One would think the human race wouldn't have forgotten that kind of history so quickly.1 -
My sleep these days tends to roll like this (though not exactly, all the time):
Sunday: crash at 9:30pm.
Monday: up at 3:45am, sleep at 11:00pm.
Tuesday: up at 3:00am, sleep at 12:30am.
Wednesday: up at 3:30am, sleep at 12:00am.
Thursday: up at 4:00am, sleep at 12:00am.
Friday: up at 3:45am, sleep at 11:30pm.
Saturday: up at 2:00am, sleep at 8:30pm.
Sunday: up at 7:00am.
It's like I don't even need an alarm clock anymore, and my body only wants to sleep hard one night per week, middling one other, then very little on the others. Fortunately, I'm not suffering any kind of energy loss as a result, and if anything, have more.2 -
[quoteIt's like I don't even need an alarm clock anymore, and my body only wants to sleep hard one night per week, middling one other, then very little on the others. Fortunately, I'm not suffering any kind of energy loss as a result, and if anything, have more.[/quote]
Oh boy, I wish I could say the same.
I have no energy at all. This is pretty chronic for me -- not just right now, but the hallmark of my life for the past few years. My brain is in a fog, I suffer from dizziness and nausea, and I can't do much of anything at all. Every now and then I have a good sleep and feel okay for a couple of days, but without fail the insomnia comes back.
I keep hoping that the next thing I try will be the key. Hopefully I'll get some benefit from removing grains from my diet and keeping the fats up and the carbs down.
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ETA: Nevermind, I'm an idiot who can't read.0
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Are you taking magnesium citrate? Mag will hep your sleep. Its a muscle relaxer. Will eliminate cramp, charlie horses, etc. And you should be upping your potassium and sodium intake to avoid keto flu...
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Yes, I take up to 800mg magnesium citrate daily and have done for years. I also recently added magnesium oil at night. Magnesium has unfortunately never helped my insomnia or night-time foot cramps, but I know I need it just to keep my digestive system working.0
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Well, the addition of a new medication yesterday put me into overdrive. Not sleeping much at all anyway, and then a night with not one single minute of sleep, with a racing heart. I can't function. Can't even drive.
I think I may have to abandon this for now until my sleep is better.0 -
What's your sodium intake like? You might actually be deficient. Insomnia/sleep disturbance is a common symptom of straight-up deficiency (I actually deal with this with my son). Try some salty broth throughout the day and especially before bed and see if anything changes.1
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tinywonder25 wrote: »I've read some studies that suggest the natural sleep cycle for humans is a first sleep and a second sleep with appx an 1 1/2 -3 hours of wakefulness.
I sleep naturally this way most nights. I'll wake up anywhere between 2:30 - 4:00. If I try to fall back asleep I end up just tossing and turning and frustrating myself to no end. I belong to a 24hr gym so have been getting up, heading to the gym for an hour or so and coming back home. There's still some time before I'll need to get ready for work so most times I'll lay on my bed and listen to a book or some soothing music and let myself dose before I get for my day. It feels like a nice little cat nap.
And melatonin and magnesium and any of those supplements that say they are supposed to help with sleep always do the EXACT opposite for me. I don't dare touch them.
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Well, the addition of a new medication yesterday put me into overdrive. Not sleeping much at all anyway, and then a night with not one single minute of sleep, with a racing heart. I can't function. Can't even drive.
I think I may have to abandon this for now until my sleep is better.
I'm not a doctor, so you may want to toss this advice in the trash. My personal opinion is that the cocktail of prescriptions you've been served is doing more harm than good. I would opt for trashing the pills, and concentrate on fueling your body with real food.2 -
Well, my first step is to ditch the new medication until I'm sleeping better. That much is plain. I know that I need the medication, but T3 is very active and I need to introduce it more slowly somehow.
I wasn't planning on giving up the lowered carb aspects of this, but rather the losing weight attempt. I've been keeping my total carbs down to around 60 per day. I thought that would be high enough to stop the insomnia, but clearly not.
I will try more salt. That's one of the things that gets recommended for adrenal insufficiency, which I know I have. I have the nice pink Himalayan salt, and I also have some potassium pills, but they are low dose. Bone broth requires chickens. I can buy chickens.
As for trashing the prescriptions -- I can't. I have Hashimoto's thyroiditis, and it has to be treated. I am post-menopausal, and my insomnia has been going on for 10 years. My symptoms have turned my life into a living hell. Without the progesterone, sleep will never be on my horizon. What I need to do is find the balance in thyroid, hormones, and adrenals. It's tough.0 -
Do you know you actually need energy to sleep? I suffer from ME/CFS and my doctor told me this is the reason people who suffer this must not overdo things. You have to find your "wall" and not go beyond it. Insomnia is a very strange thing and can be brought on by many things including excess excersize, stress, worry etc. If you have tried many things, I would say take several days to completely do the bare minimum and see how it goes... I do find personally that low carbing makes me feel much better in general, but doesn't give me excess energy... I still need to take things steady.0
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I've read that when this happens, sometimes it helps to eat the majority of your carbs in your last meal of the day. I was worried about it, because I tend to have bouts of insomnia anyway, but so far it hasn't been an issue. I did read up on it, however, just in case.
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Interestingly, last night I was about to dig into the salmon and potato pie my partner made when he announced that the sauce had flour in it. Since I'm not eating grains for a month, I decided just to eat a bit of the potato "crust" instead of the salmon. I actually managed to sleep a few hours. Maybe I should save my carbs for dinner.0
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Here's a fascinating and informative interview with a sleep scientist by Dr. Rhonda Patrick:
https://youtu.be/VhMjrWlWhLU 4 -
that's (so far) a really interesting interview, @RalfLott but his voice is so steady and calm I'm going to have to watch it during the day instead of in the middle of the night LOL.
I am curious to know if a person can become adapted to an altered circadian rhythm cycle and function ok or even well in their own (basically) "altered universe." I have Advance Sleep Phase Syndrome and short of some kind of intensive inpatient retraining situation, changing it is never going to happen - I'm just not dedicated enough nor do I have a strong enough desire or drive to change it - but I've largely adapted to it rather well; I wonder if any/some/all of the negatives they talk about in relation to not enough sleep/insomnia are mitigated at all in a case such as mine when I get adequate hours of sleep in a 24-hr period, but not at a "usual" time.
(I will fall asleep anywhere from 6-7pm most days, sleep 3-5 hours, and then nap at least once - often twice - during the day making up another 1.5-2 hours of sleep. It is certainly not ideal as far as living in a world that socializes at night LOL, but it works pretty well for me on a personal level!)1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJZNVGpuQ7o
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