Are all fats equal?
viren19890
Posts: 778 Member
Hello,
So far I've learned (by experimentation) that basically all carbs are equal in weight loss. Eating a sweet potato versus a regular potato -if eaten in similar caloric levels would have bring same effect.
I'm just wondering- are all fats equal truly ? science backed?
fat from dressings and fat from omegas , fat from milk and fat from lamb fat, fat from McDonalds fries vs coconut oil- all equal?
None of them harm if eaten according to caloric balance right?
What about fat = cholesterol theories still thrown around? even by some doctors.
Eat low fat if you want your heart of be healthy or eat "good" fat if you want good health??
I follow LCHF for 4 days -so I'm pretty sold on it but still bombarded by all that low fat =good healthy heart I keep doubting this.
So far I've learned (by experimentation) that basically all carbs are equal in weight loss. Eating a sweet potato versus a regular potato -if eaten in similar caloric levels would have bring same effect.
I'm just wondering- are all fats equal truly ? science backed?
fat from dressings and fat from omegas , fat from milk and fat from lamb fat, fat from McDonalds fries vs coconut oil- all equal?
None of them harm if eaten according to caloric balance right?
What about fat = cholesterol theories still thrown around? even by some doctors.
Eat low fat if you want your heart of be healthy or eat "good" fat if you want good health??
I follow LCHF for 4 days -so I'm pretty sold on it but still bombarded by all that low fat =good healthy heart I keep doubting this.
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Replies
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I've actually found for myself that not all carbs are created equal. I will feel tons better and weight wise fare better eating carbs from a potato rather than a 100 calorie pack of cookies lacking in nutrition. Also, vegetable oils (barring vegetable and avocado) seem to have a more negative effect on my cholesterol and liver function tests. When I cut that out, my blood tests improved. So, maybe people react differently, but for me, it does make a difference.3
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No, not all fats are equal. Not all carbs are equal. And not all protein sources are equal.
You want a simple experiment? See how much MCT oil you can eat at once and observe the effects.2 -
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RowdysLady wrote: »
I don't know that I'd recommend that myself.
Unless you're right next to a toilet for the rest of the day.2 -
baconslave wrote: »RowdysLady wrote: »
I don't know that I'd recommend that myself.
Unless you're right next to a toilet for the rest of the day.
Yeah, probably a good "cleansing" effect.
But also a thermogenic effect.
And a significant appetite effect.
Fascinating stuff, fat is. Different effects depending on chain lengths, number of double bonds, positions of bonds, and even cis vs trans isomers.4 -
No. Not all fats are equal. However, going back milk vs lamb vs dressings is technically the wrong way to go about it, unless you know why milk vs lamb vs dressing are different.
"Fat" is actually an umbrella term for a couple dozen different types of fatty acids. These fatty acids are what give different fat sources different properties (when not bound by other structures). Here are the primary fatty acids:
Saturated Fats:
Lauric acid
Palmetic acid
Stearic acid
Myristic acid
Butyric acid
Monounsaturated Fats:
Oleic acid
Polyunsaturated Fats:
Linoleic acid (Omega-6)
Alpha-Linolenic acid (Omega-3, ALA)
Eicosapentaenoic acid (Omega-3, EPA)
Docosahexaenoic acid (Omega-3, DHA)
Fats contain hyrdogen and carbon bonds, and the differences in these bonds determined the saturation of the fat.
In saturated fats, every carbon atom contains a hydrogen atom on each side of it (two hyrdogen atoms per carbon atom). This makes straight, sturdy chains.
In unsaturated fats, some of the carbon atoms only have one hydrogen atom. This creates a "bend" in the chain, decreasing its stability. The number of "bends" in the chain is indicated by the categorization of the fat (mono = 1, poly = many).
Trans fats are their own thing, and generally speaking, are present most primarily in hydrogenated vegetable oils. Hydrogenation is the process of forcing hyrdogen atoms into unsaturated chains, making them saturated, but often resulting in improperly saturating them (this is especially a problem in partial hydrogenation).
Unsaturated fats will naturally have two carbon atoms next to each other with only one hyrdogen atom connected to each of them. These hyrdogen atoms are on the same side as each other, which is what creates the bend in the chain. These are called cis fats. Trans fats, however, have those hydrogen atoms on opposite sides, which results in a straight-ish chain.
Enough organic chemistry. How's that relate to food?
Well...guess what -- that palm oil that's supposed to be so much better than animal fats? That's the same fatty acid composition as lard and tallow (more or less). As far as the fatty acids are concerned, there is no difference. In fact, palm oil actually contains more saturated fat than that "evil" lard!
How is that? Because it's less about where the fat comes from, and more about what blend of fatty acids are in that source. "Plant fats" and "animal fats" are actually pretty much the same thing, except that plant fats tend to have more polyunsaturated fatty acids, while animal fats generally lean toward a balance of saturated and unsaturated fats (there are exceptions to both generalities, of course, but we're talking gross generalities).
Coconut oil is so great, because it's one of the richest sources of Lauric acid, which makes up roughly 90% of the fat in coconut oil.
Butter is semi-solid at room temperature and solid in the fridge, because the Oleic acid content is liquid at room temperature, but the Palmetic acid content has a higher melting point, keeping it from completely melting at room temperature.
So, which is better -- lard or palm oil? That's a trick question, because they're effectively the same. The better question is -- what role do saturated fats (SFAs), monounsaturated fats (MUFAs), and polyunsaturated fats (PUFAs) play, and in what proportions should we consume them?
I personally, turn to the composition of human fat as my guide. After all, regardless of what we're eating, if we burn calories from stored fat, that composition is going to be what the body uses. I trust that the body creates such stores in a way that is at least neutral, if not beneficial or optimal, for the body. The fact that the overwhelming majority of the fat in our body consists of the more stable SFAs and MUFAs is no coincidence, in my opinion.
Human body fat is composed of roughly 35% saturated fatty acids (with the bulk of that being palmetic acid), 55% monounsaturated fatty acids (the bulk of which being oleic acid), and 10% polyunsaturated fatty acids, +/- roughly 10% for all three (though PUFAs don't go down to 0). (Source: http://www.jlr.org/content/5/3/343.full.pdf)
This means we should aim to make SFAs and MUFAs the bulk of our fatty acid intake, and not worry so much about PUFAs, except to make sure we're not losing out on Omega-3s. The amount of MUFA vs SFA is roughly split, so the exact amount of each isn't a huge deal. Thankfully, most sources either are sources of both, and it generally works out to about right. This makes it easy to tweak either way by including sources like olive oil (to tip that balance toward MUFA) or coconut oil (to tip it toward SFA).
If you eat meat/fish or consume dairy and avoid the standard vegetable and seed oils, then the PUFAs will generally take care of themselves. High-PUFA vegetable/seed oils will generally consist primarily of Omega-6 PUFAs, which compete with Omega-3 channels and have been found to cause inflammation in the body (which, in turn, causes a number of health issues). Likewise, due to the fragile nature of PUFAs, it's best to get them from their whole food sources -- fish, nuts, seeds, etc. -- as opposed to oils.
Okay...so what's their role?
Fats in general play quite a vital role, including regulation of hormones, creation and transport of fat-soluble nutrients, cell messaging, immune function, cell membrane building, and more. Exactly which fats play what role is a bit unclear (in no small part thanks to all of the politics around fats in general), though what I've found specifically names saturated fats in hormone regulation, cell messaging, and immune function, while monounsaturated fats tend to help "clean up" arterial plaque, and other various "repair" work. And, of course, we require a layer of fat to protect our organs (this is known as "essential body fat").8 -
What about fat = cholesterol theories still thrown around? even by some doctors.
Eat low fat if you want your heart of be healthy or eat "good" fat if you want good health??
Both of these "low fat for heart health" things are based on what's known as "the lipid hypothesis." The lipid hypothesis was based on the supposed observation that people who ate more fat had higher cholesterol, and people with higher cholesterol were more likely to have a heart attack.
Neither of those assumptions actually bear out with the facts (like the fact that half of people admitted for heart attacks have low to "optimal" cholesterol).
Dr. Peter Attia has actually gone into this subject a lot more, so I'm not going to try to repeat it here. Instead, I encourage you to check out his "Straight Dope On Cholesterol" series. It's a bit long and academic, but fantastic for understanding the role of cholesterol in the body, as well as the role of fats as they relate to serum cholesterol.
http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the-straight-dope-on-cholesterol-part-i
I also recommend watching his talk on the history of the US dietary recommendations, it's less academic/sciencey in nature than the blog series, as it's a bit more political, and it's an hour well spent:
https://player.vimeo.com/video/454850344 -
Not all fats are equal. Some fatty foods like salmon, mackerel (holy vitamin D batman), marbled rib eye or avocados also provide a boost in Vitamin A, C or D, fiber, potassium and other minerals. You'll feel better eating one type of fatty food vs eating straight out of a coconut oil jar
Too much fat from dairy products and you may hit your daily fat goals but find yourself constipated.1 -
@Dragonwolf oh wow! thanks a lot.
Would you say general day to day basis a person should be really take out time to focus on where the fat is coming from?
For example most of my fat comes from flax seed 1 tbsp, coconut oil, cottage cheese, yogurt, avocado, cheese slice, almonds, walnuts.
My ultimate goal is do be able to maintain my weight without the need of this app. So being a vegetarian no meat/eggs/seafood - should I be too concerned with tracking my fat sources for optimal health?0 -
viren19890 wrote: »@Dragonwolf oh wow! thanks a lot.
Would you say general day to day basis a person should be really take out time to focus on where the fat is coming from?
For example most of my fat comes from flax seed 1 tbsp, coconut oil, cottage cheese, yogurt, avocado, cheese slice, almonds, walnuts.
My ultimate goal is do be able to maintain my weight without the need of this app. So being a vegetarian no meat/eggs/seafood - should I be too concerned with tracking my fat sources for optimal health?
It might be worth spot-checking every so often, but I think once you get into the groove, you can still put it on auto-pilot. The dairy gets you the palmetic acid and some oleic acid, while the avocado gets you the oleic acid, which are the big fats in the body. With those and the coconut oil as your primary fats, you should be at least 90% there. The one thing I'd watch is the almonds. They're a heavy Omega-6 nut, so it's easy for that to throw off the balance. If you're just eating a handful a few times a week, that's different, but if it's a major staple (like almond milk, etc), it might be worth checking out alternatives, such as macadamia, coconut (in the case of milks), or just favoring the walnuts more.
One other thing I would note, too, is that although the flax and dairy gets you a fair bit of Omega-3s, it's of the ALA and DHA varieties. While the body can convert ALA to EPA, the conversion rate sucks. You're best off getting pre-formed EPA, especially. There is algae that contains it, so that might be worth looking into. Otherwise, you're stuck with marine seafood for the best bang for your buck. If you want to do whole food sources, and/or can't get your hands on the algae, it might be worthwhile to look into mollusks/bivalves (yes, even as a vegetarian; there are some pretty strong arguments regarding veg*ns and bivalve consumption and why even some otherwise-vegans consume them). A couple of servings a week gets you EPA, Vitamin D, and B12 in spades, as well as a host of other nutrients that can help round out your otherwise vegetarian diet.2
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