Why are so many people saying Keto is bad for health?
Anicamarais
Posts: 46 Member
I just want to hear this from you guys who seem to support low carb diets... What are your thoughts on the Keto diet??
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I'm a little confused by your question. Do you not support this WOE or are you maybe trying to make a decision to give it a go? I think most of us here found this forum because we supported LCHF or at least believed in the concept. I am wholeheartedly a Keto supporter and I support everyone else here in their WOE without question whether they are full on Keto, low carb, or something else that's working for them. Keto has given me better health, weight loss and a new eye opening way of seeing food. I have no plans to go back to any other WOE I tried or lived by before this. At most I may eventually up my carbs for maintenance but that'll be it.7
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It's simply because bad science that was supported for decades is the way pretty much everyone thinks. Any government health related site you would attempt to find nutrition advice on will direct you to a high carb, lower fat diet. Even though now they admit there's no reason to limit fat intake, they follow up that statement with don't overdo it. Yeah, that's not backpedaling!
Then, you've got those that literally believe a keto diet can kill you at worst and harm you at least. These people are misunderstanding how it works and confusing a condition that only a T1D can get with nutritional ketosis. They are just wrong. They continue their belief though because it seems to be supported by many many stories of failed low carb attempts made by people that didn't eat a well formulated diet and didn't understand the different needs your body has when running on fat. Those people tell horror stories of fatigue and sickness that sound very scary.
There's even common information that makes something known as "keto flu" sound like it's an unavoidable period of adaptation you go through when starting, but it is preventable by just understanding that what causes it is simple fluid and electrolyte loss that wasn't corrected for from day one. So even people that stick with it will explain this "keto flu" crap to other people and it sounds bad. So you start thinking if this diet is so healthy, then why does your body have such a hard time with it? The simple answer is, that they didn't know what they're body needed and so didn't provide it and it had nothing to do with burning ketones.
That's the kind of stuff I see when someone explains why they think it's unhealthy. Plus for some reason people think you can't eat vegetables on keto, which is completely untrue. They really don't even need to be limited if they are not starchy ones.13 -
Why do many people think keto is bad for health, you ask?
Because people don't understand that ketosis (not harmful) is not the same as diabetic ketoacidosis. They just hear "keto" and think "dangerous."
Because going keto involves eating significant amounts of fat, and it's been drilled into us since the 1970s that fat is bad, and especially saturated fat, which supposedly turns straight into that demon cholesterol and goes off to clog one's arteries.
Because they, personally, can't fathom giving up bread, or sweets, or pasta, or whatever carb-heavy food they love--after all, isn't bread the "staff of life"?--and therefore it must be "bad" to do so.
We "seem" to support low carb diets? We *do* support low carb and keto diets. That's why it's called The Low Carber Daily Forum.6 -
For me, and many others, Keto and other levels of the low carb spectrum have been quite successful. We have members in this group that have lost a substantial amount of weight, while reducing the need for certain medications, and forming a better relationship with food.
I believe the reason why people say keto is bad for health is because it does go against what has been preached for decades by the government and health fields. The food pyramid is an example. That thing has been around for ages, with grains at the bottom and fat at the top. So when something that they are making a huge amount of money off of is turned on its head, it's obviously going to attract people who furiously defend the only way they know how to eat.
Some people have a hard time controlling themselves when it comes to carbs. It doesn't provide satiety and for some people, they can't really stop when they have a taste. Fat brings more satiety with less, so they are more satisfied with less, and therefore eat less, and lose weight. It's not the same for everyone, but those who are here, are finding that this is the case for them.
You need fats for healthy hormone production and protein for muscle growth/repair/retention. Your brain only needs a certain amount of glucose to run, but even that is not necessary because your brain learns to run on ketones.
Everybody is different. It is about finding out what works for you. We have varying levels of carb consumption here, from people over 100g to people who do zero carb.6 -
@Anicamarais I am so glad you make it to this low carb sub forum. These people are awesome and helpful. My reply on to you on the main forum is covered here in one way or another and if you have more questions I will reply here. Since you are seeing good success your first month of keto I expect you will be fine. Best of success.2
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the simple answer is because it goes against everything they've learned their entire lives and many aren't ready accept that there is more than one way to fuel your body. its a natural resistance to anything different that most humans tend towards. no big deal, do what you feel is right for you and they can do what they feel is right for them.3
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I agree with the others before me. I have suffered from depression, Fibromayalgia, and RA for years. A couple of friends started this way of eating a couple of years ago. I did as much research for myself as I possibly could before deciding to give it a try myself. Within a month I had no more joint or muscle pain. All my Fibro and RA symptoms simply disappeared. Instead of collapsing on the couch after working all day, I had more energy and drive to be active. I went from sleeping on my days off to running 3 to 5 days a week. I also have routine blood work due to my previous issues. My doctor was stunned at the constantly improving results and my need for less and less medication, I've been able to go completely off most of my medications.
I also lost 85 lbs without effort. I recently had some personal issues that caused me to relapse and go back into my old eating habits. Something goes wrong? Eat cake you will feel better. Well, I quickly found out that is not true. I gained almost 20 lbs, and had all the old aches and pains again. This is just more proof to me that carbs are not my friend. I'm back in the swing with a 4 day food log streak, and already feeling better.
I also want to say thank you to this forum for always being positive and supportive, even when some of us fall off the wagon for a bit.13 -
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I saw your post and thought I would find some great examples of what everyone here has been saying.
Here you've got someone not understanding the fact that your body becomes more efficient (mitochondrial development) at using fat (including body fat) and that the consumed fat is not the only fat that is used. It would appear he may not believe in calorie math with the assumption that regardless of intake, the only fat you burn is consumed fat.
Also, he expresses the feeling of being restricted... to me this suggests an emotional attachment to food.
Bonus unicorn points for the statement that it's pointless without a medical condition and for using the terms "fad" and "magical".
This person is just 1000% incorrect. They have zero actual understanding of how the body works.
"THATS NOT HOW ANY OF THIS WORKS" lol
On this next one, who knows why it "didn't work" for her. I mean she goes to say how great she felt but since losing scale weight was all she cared about, she couldn't possibly keep it up. It can be hard to understand that we need to allow our bodies to heal, even if we aren't aware of any issues, there are waaaaaay more things going on. I personally couldn't trade health for being lighter on a scale.
Oh! I didn't realize it's all about calories! Why didn't somebody tell me that?!?!?
Well, Mr Original,
I think that's been proven wrong in a bunch of ways that simply continue to get ignored. Even Kevin Hall proved there is at least a slight metabolic advantage to keto, though he literally stated his study proved there was no difference. The data was literally showing one.
And there was someone that did an experiment where they ate X calories of high carb foods and then ate X calories of low carb, and there was certainly a difference for that guy. Sorry, I can't remember who that was.
Personally, I think fat loss is about hunger, not calories. If you can't go for stretches of time without food, there's something wrong with your body. We need to go without food to eat less right? In order to eat less calories right? And we need to continue doing that consistently over time right? But our body also needs to be healthy enough to allow weight loss and how can we under eat consistently enough to force fat loss if we are hungry every 3 hours or even more often?
Keto works because we gain control over hunger that was lost in a metabolically broken body (among other reasons, but that's a big one)
Oh, and don't miss the part at the bottom where he blames the person for their lack of weight loss. I mean, everyone knows that if you eat exactly 3500 calories less than you need that you WILL see a 1 pound loss right? If you don't, then you don't know to measure. I mean what do you want from him? He can't hold your hand. Lol
Anyway, these are literally the first 4 comments on your post and without even scrolling down further I know all the rest are just the same.
DO NOT bother trying to convince people that think this way. If a research scientist ignores and publishes research data that proves one thing, but then says something entirely different about it, you're not going to affect the thinking of anyone on a public forum.
Especially if they simply cannot live a happy life without their beloved donuts or occasional "special" treats! As if that's something to equate to actual loss and suffering. Smh4 -
cynlyn2010 wrote: »I agree with the others before me. I have suffered from depression, Fibromayalgia, and RA for years. A couple of friends started this way of eating a couple of years ago. I did as much research for myself as I possibly could before deciding to give it a try myself. Within a month I had no more joint or muscle pain. All my Fibro and RA symptoms simply disappeared. Instead of collapsing on the couch after working all day, I had more energy and drive to be active. I went from sleeping on my days off to running 3 to 5 days a week. I also have routine blood work due to my previous issues. My doctor was stunned at the constantly improving results and my need for less and less medication, I've been able to go completely off most of my medications.
I also lost 85 lbs without effort. I recently had some personal issues that caused me to relapse and go back into my old eating habits. Something goes wrong? Eat cake you will feel better. Well, I quickly found out that is not true. I gained almost 20 lbs, and had all the old aches and pains again. This is just more proof to me that carbs are not my friend. I'm back in the swing with a 4 day food log streak, and already feeling better.
I also want to say thank you to this forum for always being positive and supportive, even when some of us fall off the wagon for a bit.
@cynlyn2010 thanks for that awesome account of what low carb has done for you. After two years of tweaking my joint and muscle pain is very low. In fact it is so low while still there it is like no pain compared to the last 40 years. I too am Rx free now.6 -
samanthaluangphixay wrote: ». Your brain only needs a certain amount of glucose to run, but even that is not necessary because your brain learns to run on ketones.
Correction...the brain does not run on ketones. But the body can certainly manufacture the amount of glucose the brain needs.0 -
I'm late to the party, so just +1 everything they said. I can't say it any better!3
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@Sunny_Bunny_ that was an awesome post where you broke down the wrong comments.
I went low carb (did not know that name at the time) for pain manage instead of weight loss and it was a good thing. It was 6 weeks before I lost the first point yet was somehow losing inches without losing pounds. If I had been doing for weight loss I would have stopped I expect before 6 weeks. I did start getting good pain relief in just 30 days.1 -
samanthaluangphixay wrote: ». Your brain only needs a certain amount of glucose to run, but even that is not necessary because your brain learns to run on ketones.
Correction...the brain does not run on ketones. But the body can certainly manufacture the amount of glucose the brain needs.samanthaluangphixay wrote: ». Your brain only needs a certain amount of glucose to run, but even that is not necessary because your brain learns to run on ketones.
Correction...the brain does not run on ketones. But the body can certainly manufacture the amount of glucose the brain needs.
@jassnip not sure if your post was serious or not.
http://brighterbrains.org/articles/entry/ketosis-makes-your-brain-work-better-its-why-dave-asprey-puts-butter-in-his
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/mind-guest-blog/the-fat-fueled-brain-unnatural-or-advantageous/
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GaleHawkins wrote: »samanthaluangphixay wrote: ». Your brain only needs a certain amount of glucose to run, but even that is not necessary because your brain learns to run on ketones.
Correction...the brain does not run on ketones. But the body can certainly manufacture the amount of glucose the brain needs.samanthaluangphixay wrote: ». Your brain only needs a certain amount of glucose to run, but even that is not necessary because your brain learns to run on ketones.
Correction...the brain does not run on ketones. But the body can certainly manufacture the amount of glucose the brain needs.
@jassnip not sure if your post was serious or not.
http://brighterbrains.org/articles/entry/ketosis-makes-your-brain-work-better-its-why-dave-asprey-puts-butter-in-his
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/mind-guest-blog/the-fat-fueled-brain-unnatural-or-advantageous/
I'm thinking (hoping) it was a typo and the word "exclusively" was left out ...2 -
@Sunny_Bunny_ I wouldn't have put it if I didn't think it was correct. I will check out your sites, but my reading over the years has led me to understand the brain does not run on Ketones, ever. My understanding is that the body has the ability to convert protein and or ketones to the glucose it needs. If I am misinformed, I apologize.2
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@jassnip we are learning together. I learned about this reading of Dr. Mary Newport mentioned in the article below.
https://psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201410/bold-new-experimental-treatment-alzheimers-dementia
I know I make a donkey of myself much less often after I started living in a state of nutritional ketosis. Last Monday for the first time in two years at a tradeshow I got hungry and loaded up on some high end ice cream. Tuesday my wife said I was back being mean to her like I was before I went keto two years ago. My brain does not work well on only glucose for sure.
Others outside of the home tell me how much calmer I have been over the past couple of years. I guess they mean I do not throw **** fits like before. Also most all of last week physically I felt like death warmed over.
I still have so much to learn but one thing I know my brain is much happier burning ketones than glucose.
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Here's a quote from Phinney & Volek, Art & Science of Low Carbohydrate Living:What is remarkable to those of us with expertise in human metabolism is the DGAC’s statement that the
human brain is carbohydrate dependent, thereby mandating a high intake of dietary carbohydrate.
Interestingly, this was written not by lawyers and journalists like the original McGovern Committee
report, but by a committee of physicians and PhD scientists. They should know better.
In fact, the human brain is a carbohydrate-dependent organ ONLY if one routinely eats a lot of antiketogenic
nutrients such as sugars and concentrated carbohydrates. When dietary carbohydrates are held to
50 grams or less per day, humans undergo a process called keto-adapation, causing the liver to make and
release ketones into the bloodstream. After a few weeks of the keto-adaptation process, serum ketones
increase severalfold, reaching 1-3 millimolar (mM).
Above 1 mM ketones, more than half of the brain’s fuel comes from ketones. The rest of the brain’s fuel must
indeed come from glucose, but this amount (usually less than 50 grams per day) is easily produced
endogenously by the liver from ‘metabolic left-overs’ via a process called gluconeogenesis. Thus, the brain
uses glucose in varying amounts depending upon the availability of ketones. The manifest ability of the body
to supply the brain with fuel independent of dietary carbohydrate intake clearly contradicts this committee’s
assertion that the brain is a carbohydrate-dependent organ. Simply put, this is a classic case of a false
premise leading to a false conclusion.
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We're all in this together...
Personally, I have no first-hand knowledge of anything relating to how my brain behaves. It's still a mystery. Sometimes I wonder if Martians take it over from time to time.7 -
Thanks for the the point of views so far... I'm currently experiencing the keto - flu. .. I'm craving apples for some reason and I was so close to crashing a minute ago because of people saying bad things about ketosis.. I'm on zero carbs at the moment.. actually for the first time.. I've had limited fruits and some starchy veg but kept my carb intake less then 100g.. Never felt "the flu".. But now that I have cut out all starchy veg and 100% fruits, the flu has kicked in... Most of my calories Come from far now. I had no energy at the gym this morning, didn't even bother. Sat on my back side the whole entire day feeling lethargic and depressed...
Is this a good sign?
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Anicamarais wrote: »Thanks for the the point of views so far... I'm currently experiencing the keto - flu. .. I'm craving apples for some reason and I was so close to crashing a minute ago because of people saying bad things about ketosis.. I'm on zero carbs at the moment.. actually for the first time.. I've had limited fruits and some starchy veg but kept my carb intake less then 100g.. Never felt "the flu".. But now that I have cut out all starchy veg and 100% fruits, the flu has kicked in... Most of my calories Come from far now. I had no energy at the gym this morning, didn't even bother. Sat on my back side the whole entire day feeling lethargic and depressed...
Is this a good sign?
As @Sunny_Bunny_ mentioned above, this 'keto flu' is avoidable. You need to increase your sodium intake.
As you lower carbs, you lose water which flushes out the sodium in your body. You need to bring it back or else you will experience headaches and lack of energy.
This is not a 'good sign' and is not mandatory for living la vida low carb.
This is a common misconception that it is a requirement.
Eat a few pickles or have some broth.
Read the Launch Pad, especially the post about electrolytes.7 -
Anicamarais wrote: »Thanks for the the point of views so far... I'm currently experiencing the keto - flu. .. I'm craving apples for some reason and I was so close to crashing a minute ago because of people saying bad things about ketosis.. I'm on zero carbs at the moment.. actually for the first time.. I've had limited fruits and some starchy veg but kept my carb intake less then 100g.. Never felt "the flu".. But now that I have cut out all starchy veg and 100% fruits, the flu has kicked in... Most of my calories Come from far now. I had no energy at the gym this morning, didn't even bother. Sat on my back side the whole entire day feeling lethargic and depressed...
Is this a good sign?
Are you getting enough fats? are you getting enough sodium? Are you sufficiently hydrated?
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I have MS, and in one of the promising diets being studied for MS (the Wahls Protocol), Dr. Wahls recommends a version of a keto diet for MS patients. Her research points to it being good for brain health. I also have PCOS and probably insulin resistance and have heard keto/LCHF recommended for that as well.
As anecdotal evidence, benefits I noticed when I switched to eating keto/LCHF:
* started losing weight much more easily (and continued to goal)
* joint pain decreased significantly
* acid reflux and other GI problems dramatically improved
* more energy
* stopped feeling hungry "all the time"
* developed a more healthy relationship with food (seeing it more as fuel rather than reward)
* cravings became far more manageable
* periods became more regular4 -
I have a niece who had severe seizures (dozens per day) from the time she was born. The doctors tried every drug available. Every time it would work for a week or two and then go right back. Finally, after exhausting all the drug options, they wanted to to do brain surgery and separate her lobes to try to cure it. My cousin looked at all the non-traditional options and was referred to a doctor in Memphis who put her on a LC VHF diet, along with taking out all the artificial colors and dyes and additives. Where drugs failed, LCHF worked! Seizure free for years now, just went for the last checkup which included a 48 hours brain scan (IIRC). The doctor said she was free and clear and didn't need to come back again!
Modern medicine is only masking many of the problems caused by our diets.12 -
I drink lots of water and eat lost of salt so I can't see why the flu is getting me so bad... I'm pretty sure my body is just adapting to using ketones instead of glucose.... I've only been fat fasting for 2 or 3 days so maybe the metabolic change is taking place... who knows?0
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Anicamarais wrote: »I drink lots of water and eat lost of salt so I can't see why the flu is getting me so bad... I'm pretty sure my body is just adapting to using ketones instead of glucose.... I've only been fat fasting for 2 or 3 days so maybe the metabolic change is taking place... who knows?
Are you drinking because you are actually thirsty or drinking water just to drink water?
The more water you drink, the more sodium you flush out.
At your levels of low carb (I am assuming very low because you said 'fat fast), you would need upwards of 3000mg of sodium. It is hard to get that much with just salting your food.
If you don't like things like pickles and olives, you can try sodium tablets. I know some of the members here use that.1 -
Make sure you are drinking enough water and eating enough sodium. making keto-ade helps alot. put some salt in water and squirt a little MiO in there. I havent experienced the keto flu since starting over a month ago because i watch my water and sodium. but sometimes i can tell when my electrolytes are getting low when i start to feel light headed .1
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@silverfiend, what a remarkable health benefit on LC VHF. So happy to hear your niece is incident free.1
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I support keto because the top health and fitness scientists and researchers can't stop talking about all of its benefits. There are a lot of reasons there is garbage floating around about how bad it is and to support higher carb diet - mostly political reasons.0
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