Sleeping like a caveman...
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
For me it's staggeringly low PROGESTERONE. My ratios are absurd. Even with supplementation.I think it's mostly hormones, ladies -- which in my case means staggeringly low cortisol, high progesterone, staggeringly low estrogens, and a slightly off-kilter thyroid level. My sleep is often appallingly bad, so much so that I have to stop driving sometimes.
A lot of the time night-time awakenings are due to inappropriate cortisol levels. If your cortisol is high at 2 a.m., you'll wake up.
About 18 months ago my progesterone was staggeringly low. With supplementation of 300 mg compounded oral caps nightly my sleep improved almost overnight for the first time in years, but after a year or so it got too high, so now I'm lowering it to 200 mg nightly and adding the estrogens.
The cortisol is harder to deal with. I'll be using a medical-grade Withania complex. Yer basic Ashwaghanda 3 x a day is good, but this stuff is better, apparently. I also use Holy Basil caps at night, which I find helps with the early-morning wakeups. My guess is it will take me a year to get the cortisol sorted out.
Hopefully the the progesterone and estrogen will find a good balance soon and my sleep will improve again. I can handle almost anything if I've had a good sleep, and I can handle almost nothing if I have bad insomnia.
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
For me it's staggeringly low PROGESTERONE. My ratios are absurd. Even with supplementation.I think it's mostly hormones, ladies -- which in my case means staggeringly low cortisol, high progesterone, staggeringly low estrogens, and a slightly off-kilter thyroid level. My sleep is often appallingly bad, so much so that I have to stop driving sometimes.
A lot of the time night-time awakenings are due to inappropriate cortisol levels. If your cortisol is high at 2 a.m., you'll wake up.
About 18 months ago my progesterone was staggeringly low. With supplementation of 300 mg compounded oral caps nightly my sleep improved almost overnight for the first time in years, but after a year or so it got too high, so now I'm lowering it to 200 mg nightly and adding the estrogens.
The cortisol is harder to deal with. I'll be using a medical-grade Withania complex. Yer basic Ashwaghanda 3 x a day is good, but this stuff is better, apparently. I also use Holy Basil caps at night, which I find helps with the early-morning wakeups. My guess is it will take me a year to get the cortisol sorted out.
Hopefully the the progesterone and estrogen will find a good balance soon and my sleep will improve again. I can handle almost anything if I've had a good sleep, and I can handle almost nothing if I have bad insomnia.
I'm using the transdermal, about 50Mg a night. And magnesium, and sometimes a prescription antihistamine when I miss a few nights of sleep.
My estrogens are still pretty good. But I'm way estrogen dominant. That's my challenge.
I use Vitex and "women essential" oils (Omegas etc.). The combination of the above does help. I have good days and bad days, but yeah, when I lose a couple of nights sleep, I can't handle much!0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
I'm using the transdermal, about 50Mg a night. And magnesium, and sometimes a prescription antihistamine when I miss a few nights of sleep.
My estrogens are still pretty good. But I'm way estrogen dominant. That's my challenge.
I use Vitex and "women essential" oils (Omegas etc.). The combination of the above does help. I have good days and bad days, but yeah, when I lose a couple of nights sleep, I can't handle much!
50 mg progesterone is a pretty low dose. Also, oral progesterone helps with sleep. It really does.
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I saw that someone mentioned high cortisol. My ND told me that night time waking was due weak adrenals that are unable to produce enough cortisol to keep blood sugar from dropping too low. So instead the adrenals pump out adrenaline, which produces that jolt. Mine used to kick in about four or five hours after going to bed. But now on keto and taking an Isocortex supplement, I no longer wake up that early.0
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I started keto in November. I've had this problem both last spring and again now since August. It sucks.
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I saw that someone mentioned high cortisol. My ND told me that night time waking was due weak adrenals that are unable to produce enough cortisol to keep blood sugar from dropping too low. So instead the adrenals pump out adrenaline, which produces that jolt. Mine used to kick in about four or five hours after going to bed. But now on keto and taking an Isocortex supplement, I no longer wake up that early.
Interesting!
I need to keep pursuing this. I've talked to both a pcp and my MS specialist about this but haven't gotten anything that helps yet. I take two melatonin and two Benadryl every night. I fall asleep well but wake up any time between 12 (bad nights!) and 4, often around 2. I have some good nights but a lot of rough nights, too.0 -
weak adrenals can be fed licorice root - it will give them the nutrition they need to function properly0
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I saw that someone mentioned high cortisol. My ND told me that night time waking was due weak adrenals that are unable to produce enough cortisol to keep blood sugar from dropping too low. So instead the adrenals pump out adrenaline, which produces that jolt. Mine used to kick in about four or five hours after going to bed. But now on keto and taking an Isocortex supplement, I no longer wake up that early.
That's an interesting theory. It makes a certain amount of sense.
I wonder if those that have the issue would compare similarities like
Insulin resistant? (Including PCOS, Diabetes, history of past hypos or Pre-Diabetes etc...)
Carb level of your evening meal/snacks?
I wonder if the majority of those that do experience it may be having dropping blood sugar, even if it's not actually going low. Maybe it's just dropping 10 points suddenly from a surge of insulin due to the IR.
This idea still makes sense as you consider that many say that it gets better over time, since we would expect insulin production to reduce in time as low carb is followed consistently.
The cortisol aspect also makes sense since we know that comes with increased glucagon secretion that could fire up the over production of insulin and reignite the IR or slow down the reversal of it in the beginning.
Assuming that's what is happening, it seems the only action plan is to stick to the plan and keep working on the IR. Maybe even incorporating things to specifically address IR like fasting or herbs/supplements as mentioned that may be of benefit. I think Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) is also thought to help. Probably due to its probiotics so it would have to be the kind with "mother".
Interesting theory though. Makes sense to me.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
I'm using the transdermal, about 50Mg a night. And magnesium, and sometimes a prescription antihistamine when I miss a few nights of sleep.
My estrogens are still pretty good. But I'm way estrogen dominant. That's my challenge.
I use Vitex and "women essential" oils (Omegas etc.). The combination of the above does help. I have good days and bad days, but yeah, when I lose a couple of nights sleep, I can't handle much!
50 mg progesterone is a pretty low dose. Also, oral progesterone helps with sleep. It really does.
50Mg, if you were taking a capsule (which is mostly metabolized by the liver), is a small does. 50MG transdermal is more than the body produces at it's highest point in a menstrual cycle.
The estimate is that 60-80% of oral progesterone is broken down by the liver. When 100MG oral is prescribed 20-40 gets to the body.
I tried oral. Twice. It gave me Gerd, and didn't give me the same "ahh, sleep" as transdermal.
I am sleeping much better. I still have too much estrogen, and have some cortisol issues, but the 50MG of transdermal prescription progesterone has greatly improved my sleep.0 -
I saw that someone mentioned high cortisol. My ND told me that night time waking was due weak adrenals that are unable to produce enough cortisol to keep blood sugar from dropping too low. So instead the adrenals pump out adrenaline, which produces that jolt. Mine used to kick in about four or five hours after going to bed. But now on keto and taking an Isocortex supplement, I no longer wake up that early.
This is me right now. Unfortunately, here in Canada doctors don't even talk about Isocortex, so we have to struggle with things like Ashwaghanda.
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »50Mg, if you were taking a capsule (which is mostly metabolized by the liver), is a small does. 50MG transdermal is more than the body produces at it's highest point in a menstrual cycle.
The estimate is that 60-80% of oral progesterone is broken down by the liver. When 100MG oral is prescribed 20-40 gets to the body.
I tried oral. Twice. It gave me Gerd, and didn't give me the same "ahh, sleep" as transdermal.
I am sleeping much better. I still have too much estrogen, and have some cortisol issues, but the 50MG of transdermal prescription progesterone has greatly improved my sleep.
Hm. I wonder if I should switch, then? Maybe I should talk to my ND about this. I'm awfully sick of having to take a gazillion pills at night before bed - I end up having to pee about two hours later.
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It's worth a discussion. My ND only did cream. My OBGYN gave me the choice. What I like BEST about the transdermal is that I can tweak it up or down as needed. What I like least: traveling is easier with pills than cream. So I take the prometrium with me when I travel.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »50Mg, if you were taking a capsule (which is mostly metabolized by the liver), is a small does. 50MG transdermal is more than the body produces at it's highest point in a menstrual cycle.
The estimate is that 60-80% of oral progesterone is broken down by the liver. When 100MG oral is prescribed 20-40 gets to the body.
I tried oral. Twice. It gave me Gerd, and didn't give me the same "ahh, sleep" as transdermal.
I am sleeping much better. I still have too much estrogen, and have some cortisol issues, but the 50MG of transdermal prescription progesterone has greatly improved my sleep.
Hm. I wonder if I should switch, then? Maybe I should talk to my ND about this. I'm awfully sick of having to take a gazillion pills at night before bed - I end up having to pee about two hours later.0 -
My ND also suggested getting up to eat a fatty protein snack rather than staying in bed and hoping to fall back asleep. But between his supplements and the LCHF diet, I resumed sleeping through the night after only a few days of starting his regimen. And yes, I am grateful for that. I wish you all the same success!0
