at what day did the hunger decrease when you first started LCHF?
oat_bran
Posts: 370 Member
Hi, I'm new to this group but not exactly new to keto/LCHF. I've tried to start this WOE many times - mainly to be able to control hunger/cravings - but I gave up every time after several days because the hunger/cravings seems unbearable.
Lately I decided to give it another try, thinking that maybe I wasn't eating enough fat before or was lacking electrolytes.
I'm eating 1400-1900 calories (I'm 5'2'' and about 130 lbs, so that's a lot of calories), 75-90% percent fat, under 5% carbs and the rest protein. I'm taking magnesium supplement, potassium and regular salt and drinking a lot of water. I'm only on my third day and I'm starting to think about quitting again because the hunger and cravings for carbs are getting to intense, to a point where I can't focus on other things. I'm also feeling really weak and sluggish. I basically feel almost exactly like when I water fast, except I'm eating a lot of very caloric foods. I feel less hungry on the same amount of calories but with carbs. I keep telling myself that it will pass eventually and I will experience the magic reduction of appetite but I'm not sure how long I can last like this.
So I just wanted to hear about your experiences with hunger/cravings on first days on keto? did you experience intense cravings and were unusually hungry on your first days? How long did it take for you to pass?
Lately I decided to give it another try, thinking that maybe I wasn't eating enough fat before or was lacking electrolytes.
I'm eating 1400-1900 calories (I'm 5'2'' and about 130 lbs, so that's a lot of calories), 75-90% percent fat, under 5% carbs and the rest protein. I'm taking magnesium supplement, potassium and regular salt and drinking a lot of water. I'm only on my third day and I'm starting to think about quitting again because the hunger and cravings for carbs are getting to intense, to a point where I can't focus on other things. I'm also feeling really weak and sluggish. I basically feel almost exactly like when I water fast, except I'm eating a lot of very caloric foods. I feel less hungry on the same amount of calories but with carbs. I keep telling myself that it will pass eventually and I will experience the magic reduction of appetite but I'm not sure how long I can last like this.
So I just wanted to hear about your experiences with hunger/cravings on first days on keto? did you experience intense cravings and were unusually hungry on your first days? How long did it take for you to pass?
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I was listening to a podcast last night of a presentation done by Dr. David Ludwig.
Basically, when you eat carbs, they cause a reaction in your brain associated with the same pleasure centers in your brain as addiction. This is something I have now heard and read several times. As with any addiction, there is a withdrawal period.
One of the studies I read showed 7+ days to overcome these cravings. This is going to vary from person to person. I have always been lower carb than average in terms of percentage, but not by volume as I am a big eater. My carbs of choice were pizza, popcorn and ice cream.
My personal experience was at least a week, maybe two for the general cravings of these foods, although when there is a particularly strong temptation (i.e. walking into a movie theater where all you can smell is the popcorn), the cravings can resurface still.
In terms of the hunger, this was more gradual. Again, I would say around a week into this, I started noticing a lack of hunger. My big challenge then became habit eating. I changed to an 8/16 IF schedule where I only ate lunch and dinner about 7-8 weeks in which seemed to be a tipping point for breaking some of my habit eating and allowing me to really listen to when I was actually hungry vs when I only thought I was hungry because it was a time I was used to eating.
All that said, I would give it AT LEAST a week. I would also say listen to your body in terms of real hunger versus habit. One big difference in true hunger and carb induced hunger (generally coming from the insulin spike after eating carbs) is when I am truly hungry, I am not "hangry." When it is carb induced, I am very "hangry." If you are one who suffers from that, then hold on until you don't.4 -
one more quick note: don't get too concerned about total calories that first week as your body adjusts. If you go over (assuming you aren't going 1000 a day over), don't sweat it. It takes time for your body to adjust to not being a sugar burner.2
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5% carbs is pretty darned low right off the bat...have you considered going low carb prior to going full keto??? Kind of ease into the transition instead of cold turkey???4
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Day 2 and 3 were probably my hardest. By 1 week in I was comfortable and cravings were gone, by 2 weeks in I had a drastically reduced appetite. It took about a month to get over missing that full feeling that starches added to my meals.
What are you eating? Are you trying for keto and "diet" foods? If so, find some awesome, delicious keto foods/snacks and get past this point of carb cravings. I don't snack now, but I sure did to help myself get started.
If you're feeling headachy and sluggish, I'd still try a shot of salt. If you're drinking a lot of water, you may be working against your electrolytes.3 -
I've been eating low carb since Mar., with a few cheat (high carb) days here and there (most recent was almost a month ago, then back to August). The cravings never went away for me, so I'm not convinced that they will for all of us.0
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I have to second what @Cadori said about eating awesome foods. I think too often people start with the old diet mentality. This is not a diet. This is a way of eating. If I had known this was ok, I would have done this years ago. I mean, seriously, steak with a side of bacon? Pork rinds as an acceptable snack? Wow, this is awesome!
Look at getting the tastiest keto food you can find, and I would stay away from the fake stuff (i.e. desserts with artificial sweeteners) and eat REAL food. I think when people eat/drink a bunch of sweet but low carb stuff, it only makes the cravings stick around.2 -
cstehansen wrote: »I was listening to a podcast last night of a presentation done by Dr. David Ludwig.
Basically, when you eat carbs, they cause a reaction in your brain associated with the same pleasure centers in your brain as addiction. This is something I have now heard and read several times. As with any addiction, there is a withdrawal period.
One of the studies I read showed 7+ days to overcome these cravings. This is going to vary from person to person. I have always been lower carb than average in terms of percentage, but not by volume as I am a big eater. My carbs of choice were pizza, popcorn and ice cream.
My personal experience was at least a week, maybe two for the general cravings of these foods, although when there is a particularly strong temptation (i.e. walking into a movie theater where all you can smell is the popcorn), the cravings can resurface still.
In terms of the hunger, this was more gradual. Again, I would say around a week into this, I started noticing a lack of hunger. My big challenge then became habit eating. I changed to an 8/16 IF schedule where I only ate lunch and dinner about 7-8 weeks in which seemed to be a tipping point for breaking some of my habit eating and allowing me to really listen to when I was actually hungry vs when I only thought I was hungry because it was a time I was used to eating.
All that said, I would give it AT LEAST a week. I would also say listen to your body in terms of real hunger versus habit. One big difference in true hunger and carb induced hunger (generally coming from the insulin spike after eating carbs) is when I am truly hungry, I am not "hangry." When it is carb induced, I am very "hangry." If you are one who suffers from that, then hold on until you don't.
Thanks for the advice! I will try to be patient!tcunbeliever wrote: »5% carbs is pretty darned low right off the bat...have you considered going low carb prior to going full keto??? Kind of ease into the transition instead of cold turkey???
Well, I figured that cold turkey would be better in my case since I already struggled with hunger before and lowering carbs slowly would mean I'd be even hungrier for longer. I assumed cold turkey would allow me to reach ketosis quicker and that it's better to get it over with quicker than to suffer from hunger and cravings for months. And by the way, I tried to lower carbs to under 100 and upper fat/protein before and it didn't help with the hunger at all.midwesterner85 wrote: »I've been eating low carb since Mar., with a few cheat (high carb) days here and there (most recent was almost a month ago, then back to August). The cravings never went away for me, so I'm not convinced that they will for all of us.
That's what I'm afraid of. That I'll suffer for weeks thinking that I just need to be patient only to gaing weight from overeating on calories and figure out that I'm one of those people who never really experience the reduction of cravings/hunger. But I'm willing to hold on for a few more days.0 -
Despite that my cravings never went away, I had those same cravings prior to eating low carb. I've been losing more quickly since going low carb (despite eating at the same deficit), but cravings haven't actually changed. It was bad while eating at a deficit before and they are bad eating at a deficit now. The results have improved, though.0
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longstocking wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »I was listening to a podcast last night of a presentation done by Dr. David Ludwig.
Basically, when you eat carbs, they cause a reaction in your brain associated with the same pleasure centers in your brain as addiction. This is something I have now heard and read several times. As with any addiction, there is a withdrawal period.
One of the studies I read showed 7+ days to overcome these cravings. This is going to vary from person to person. I have always been lower carb than average in terms of percentage, but not by volume as I am a big eater. My carbs of choice were pizza, popcorn and ice cream.
My personal experience was at least a week, maybe two for the general cravings of these foods, although when there is a particularly strong temptation (i.e. walking into a movie theater where all you can smell is the popcorn), the cravings can resurface still.
In terms of the hunger, this was more gradual. Again, I would say around a week into this, I started noticing a lack of hunger. My big challenge then became habit eating. I changed to an 8/16 IF schedule where I only ate lunch and dinner about 7-8 weeks in which seemed to be a tipping point for breaking some of my habit eating and allowing me to really listen to when I was actually hungry vs when I only thought I was hungry because it was a time I was used to eating.
All that said, I would give it AT LEAST a week. I would also say listen to your body in terms of real hunger versus habit. One big difference in true hunger and carb induced hunger (generally coming from the insulin spike after eating carbs) is when I am truly hungry, I am not "hangry." When it is carb induced, I am very "hangry." If you are one who suffers from that, then hold on until you don't.
Thanks for the advice! I will try to be patient!tcunbeliever wrote: »5% carbs is pretty darned low right off the bat...have you considered going low carb prior to going full keto??? Kind of ease into the transition instead of cold turkey???
Well, I figured that cold turkey would be better in my case since I already struggled with hunger before and lowering carbs slowly would mean I'd be even hungrier for longer. I assumed cold turkey would allow me to reach ketosis quicker and that it's better to get it over with quicker than to suffer from hunger and cravings for months. And by the way, I tried to lower carbs to under 100 and upper fat/protein before and it didn't help with the hunger at all.midwesterner85 wrote: »I've been eating low carb since Mar., with a few cheat (high carb) days here and there (most recent was almost a month ago, then back to August). The cravings never went away for me, so I'm not convinced that they will for all of us.
That's what I'm afraid of. That I'll suffer for weeks thinking that I just need to be patient only to gaing weight from overeating on calories and figure out that I'm one of those people who never really experience the reduction of cravings/hunger. But I'm willing to hold on for a few more days.
Over time though you may discover hacks to circumvent or thwart the cravings and hunger. I got down to my goal. Guess what? Still a very hungry caterpillar. But I chew gum at danger times, and keep out of the kitchen at "munchy" times. I have a favorite stevia/erythritol sweetened tea at bedtime. Sometimes some stupid sugar-free jello. I have to log all the darn time. But by now it's so routine it's normal and easy. I keep my calories slightly lower 6 days a week so I can have a FATurday and eat more and not log. It works. And I'd rather have to do this annoying crap and keep my fit body than to go back to the sack of lazy recliner-dweller that I was.
I wish I had the zen of never-hungry. But that's never been my biology. I have learned how to cope and be content with it. So I've hacked my inner brat and told her "it's good enough." And she mostly listens. Except for TOM when she throws a damn fit...
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Day 2 and 3 were probably my hardest. By 1 week in I was comfortable and cravings were gone, by 2 weeks in I had a drastically reduced appetite. It took about a month to get over missing that full feeling that starches added to my meals.
What are you eating? Are you trying for keto and "diet" foods? If so, find some awesome, delicious keto foods/snacks and get past this point of carb cravings. I don't snack now, but I sure did to help myself get started.
If you're feeling headachy and sluggish, I'd still try a shot of salt. If you're drinking a lot of water, you may be working against your electrolytes.
Thank you! That's reassuring. Hopefully tomorrow will be a little easier than today and I'll feel some difference by the end of this week.
I admit it I'm probably overdosing a little on fat bombs. Though they feel more like a treat than a diet food. But I'm eating lots of delicious foods and snacking all day. And since low carb high fat foods are generally calorie dense the calories grow quickly without leaving the feeling of satiety like carbs do. Eating low carb veggies for the volume doesn't seem to do the trick either. Plus they still have carbs so I have to watch how much i eat... Maybe I'm one of those people who don't get full from fat. Or maybe there's some other reason behind this hunger (like i said i've been struggling with hunger for weeks before starting the keto eating....)0 -
longstocking wrote: »Day 2 and 3 were probably my hardest. By 1 week in I was comfortable and cravings were gone, by 2 weeks in I had a drastically reduced appetite. It took about a month to get over missing that full feeling that starches added to my meals.
What are you eating? Are you trying for keto and "diet" foods? If so, find some awesome, delicious keto foods/snacks and get past this point of carb cravings. I don't snack now, but I sure did to help myself get started.
If you're feeling headachy and sluggish, I'd still try a shot of salt. If you're drinking a lot of water, you may be working against your electrolytes.
Thank you! That's reassuring. Hopefully tomorrow will be a little easier than today and I'll feel some difference by the end of this week.
I admit it I'm probably overdosing a little on fat bombs. Though they feel more like a treat than a diet food. But I'm eating lots of delicious foods and snacking all day. And since low carb high fat foods are generally calorie dense the calories grow quickly without leaving the feeling of satiety like carbs do. Eating low carb veggies for the volume doesn't seem to do the trick either. Plus they still have carbs so I have to watch how much i eat... Maybe I'm one of those people who don't get full from fat. Or maybe there's some other reason behind this hunger (like i said i've been struggling with hunger for weeks before starting the keto eating....)
The frequent eating may actually be the problem. The more often you eat, the more your body expects food. This is one reason why fasting and intermittent fasting work so well is your body stops expecting external food and starts focusing on using your fat stores. I would not suggest any type of fast right out of the gate, but you might try making your meals bigger and cutting the snacks completely. Here is a link to a study from another thread showing there was greater success with 2 large meals over 6 small meals with identical calorie and macro content:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/248386782 -
Most likely you're confusing hunger with cravings.
You have to approach the cravings the same way an addict would if you ever hope to get past that step.
Would you just give in because it's to hard if you were quitting some other substance?
Those will pass. They certainly creep up again with certain food triggers though. Try not to use low carb sweets to satisfy those cravings except for special occasions only.
Any actual hunger in the beginning comes from your body's inability to effectively access stored body fat. That gets better as you adapt. So tgats another reason to just push on. Definitely just eat more on plan foods though. Just lay off the sweet foods and diet drinks. They really do trigger feelings of "hunger" which are more likely cravings for a majority of people.0 -
I dove right into 20g net carbs from Day 1. I didn't really have any cravings for carby food, to my great surprise. But I kept the same general level of appetite, and have eaten 3 meals a day each day, and I'm not talking a palm-size serving of meat and a side veggie. I've eaten full, delicious, wholesome full-fat food to my satiety, and have never felt deprived. I've kept sweet tastes to an absolute minimum. Stevia, and the occasional don't-have-stevia-with-me Splenda, in my morning coffee and that's it. Made a mini keto cheesecake, not too sweet w/stevia, and found it waaay too easy to eat. I'm still training myself to be conscious of when, what, and why I eat...so no "treats" for a little while longer yet.
Today is day 30 of keto for me. I'm very excited about that! But it wasn't until a few days ago that I found myself going for upwards of 6-8 hours having not eaten, and not really wanting to. I just didn't feel hungry. When I did eat, I had a great meal. But I didn't want to eat as much. Fascinating. I'm not sure it's going to stay that way, and I'm not looking to jump into intermittent fasting any time soon. But yeah. Hunger will ebb for many, it seems, though the timelines may vary.1 -
longstocking wrote: »I'm also feeling really weak and sluggish.
Typical symptom of Keto flu. You need to up your salt intake. Most people require a MINIMUM of 3000mg - 5000mg per day. Easiest way to combat this is to dissolve a bouillon cube in the appropriate amount of water and drink 1-2 cubes per day.0 -
My cravings only somewhat subsided. I found it helpful to (a) stay away from all "favorite carbs" i.e. trigger foods and (b) remind myself what my ultimate goal was. Sometimes, in simple terms I would ask myself if nachos were worth staying at my current jean size. It's partially a mind game for sure.2
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@longstocking, I totally get what you're saying about eating enough calories (or more than enough) and still being hungry. Losing my excess 63 wasn't difficult once I made my mind up to do it but maintenance is a beast for me. I maintained for a couple of years and was ALWAYS hungry. I started keto 7 months ago for reasons other than weight and was elated that both cravings and hunger disappeared. The cravings are still under control but I'm back to being hungry most of the time, just not as bad as before.
Right now I'm playing "Pick your hard". Being hungry is hard. Being overweight is hard. I pick hungry but am taking notes from suggestions from others above.
I can't help but feel my problem is my gehlin/leptin hormones went a bit out of whack with the weight loss and my body is fighting back even though neither my deficit nor pace were extreme.
Don't quit.3 -
I had a hard time the first few days with missing the crunch of potato chips etc. I ate pickles and crisped pepperoni and pork rinds. I am 17 days in and finding that I don't really miss the things I used to eat all the time. A spoonful of peanut butter or a hardboiled egg or a square of dark chocolate usually do the trick for me now, without sitting and gorging on half a bag of chips.
I of course still have tough days, like today, where my emotional stability is all whacked from not sleeping, so I'm craving all the carbs. I'm being a little more lenient with myself and not tracking so diligently, but not eating a giant plate of fettuccine Alfredo.
I think the best thing about this woe is that you'll learn you'd body and what works for you over time. Your tastes and cravings will change, and you'll start to view food as nourishment. Don't give up! It's a big change.1 -
I have been thinking about this more. I have always been a huge eater and compensated by doing what I had to to burn it off. I also grew up much poorer than I realized at the time so eating fast was normal so my brothers didn't get "seconds" by stealing from my plate.
One change I have made or am trying to make is eating slower to allow myself to feel full without eating as much. I know I have been somewhat successful because I can tell my stomach has shrunk. Even when I eat too fast now, I can't fit as much in as I used to. It was no issue before to eat 30 pieces of pizza at the buffet BEFORE I hit the dessert section. Obviously, I don't go to pizza buffets anymore, but if I did, I can't imagine even getting half that much in before feeling like I was going to die from being stuffed.4 -
cstehansen wrote: »I have been thinking about this more. I have always been a huge eater and compensated by doing what I had to to burn it off. I also grew up much poorer than I realized at the time so eating fast was normal so my brothers didn't get "seconds" by stealing from my plate.
This comment resonates
...family of 7 plus a couple of hired hands showed up at the dinner table every day. The "get it while you can" mentality was always there. I rarely ate breakfast (I was busy hauling feed to the pasture to feed the cows before the school bus showed up at 6:40 am) or lunch (school lunch was gross) that I often sneaked an afternoon steak snack in so dinner wasn't such a frenzy for me. To this day tho, I am a staunch member of the "clean your plate" club. The only time this is now an issue is if I go out to eat, but I am careful about what I order so rarely a problem.0 -
I am trying a different take on Keto, sort of like the primal diet, that I found from a book called "6 Weeks to OMG." It basically has you cut down to carb levels of either 120g, 90g, or 60g a day *I chose 60*. He doesn't have you count vegetable except for certain ones like potatoes, but one of the tricks is to cut down to only one portion of fruit a day. You choose from low fructose options and you only have it at breakfast but at the end of the meal - apparently having it first will confuse your leptin tricking your body into not being able to tell when it's full. He also has you do some type of movement before each meal and have only 3 meals per day * no snacking.* I noticed hunger on day one and by day two, I was completely fine! I'm on day 4 now and while I still miss sweets and carbs, I don't care about it if it's out of sight. Hope that trick helps!2
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I follow Keto 5%/70%/25% and I stopped getting cravings about 2 weeks in. I was a total snacker during those 2 weeks and can still be sometimes if things get stressful (my trigger), but I choose low carb things to snack on like whole salted almonds, or pickles (OMG PICKLE JUICE!!!! YES!!). Also banana peppers (weird yes, but good to snack on), pickled asparagus, a fork and a can of tuna. These are the kinds of easy things to keep in reach for those snacky moments.
If you have any carb ridden stuff, throw it out, give it away, get rid of it! There's nothing like trying to quit a habit while dangling that very thing in your face. If it's there, it's too easy to make regretful choices, get depressed, take 2 Fukitols and try again tomorrow (vicious cycle that needs to be broken)
There's a ton a different low carb snack stuff, you just have to figure out what you like. Don't buy a lot of this stuff because eventually you won't even want snacks anymore. You start looking forward to your actual meals.3 -
It took up to 3 weeks and cutting dairy from my diet.I used electrolytes with Ultima Replenisher it worked wonders
for me.I find if I just have coffee in the morning I wont be so hungry.I think I have leaky gut and that is why it took so long to truly adapt.My sinuses are way better and my energy has improved.I did not do exercise I did not want to stress my body in the beginning.Good luck1 -
I just wanted to let everyone know that I'm at the end of the day four and I'm feeling much less hungry than before. Maybe the worst is really over?
Also, to everyone assuming I was referring to craving junk carby food - I wasn't really. I was hungry, i wanted more food in general, inluding low carb food. Although certain carb foods like fruits sounded particularly appealing. This is why I don't think it was *just* cravings or withdrawal from carbs. Anyway, it's much less intense today. Hopefully it will continue to get weaker.@longstocking, I totally get what you're saying about eating enough calories (or more than enough) and still being hungry. Losing my excess 63 wasn't difficult once I made my mind up to do it but maintenance is a beast for me. I maintained for a couple of years and was ALWAYS hungry. I started keto 7 months ago for reasons other than weight and was elated that both cravings and hunger disappeared. The cravings are still under control but I'm back to being hungry most of the time, just not as bad as before.
Right now I'm playing "Pick your hard". Being hungry is hard. Being overweight is hard. I pick hungry but am taking notes from suggestions from others above.
I can't help but feel my problem is my gehlin/leptin hormones went a bit out of whack with the weight loss and my body is fighting back even though neither my deficit nor pace were extreme.
Don't quit.
Thanks. I've been also starting to wonder if my my leptin/ghrelin levels are messed up or something since I wasn't as hungry constantly before like I feel the last several months low carb or not.
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longstocking wrote: »I just wanted to let everyone know that I'm at the end of the day four and I'm feeling much less hungry than before. Maybe the worst is really over?
Hope so, and hope the hunger doesn't come back!1
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