Ketosis question for the experienced and/or knowledgeable
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solska
Posts: 348 Member
How many pounds of the first 20 pounds lost on a keto diet do you think is water weight due to depleted glycogen in the liver, muscles, etc. ?
I'm a 40 year old woman, the scale tells me most of the loss was fat but we know these scales aren't accurate. I'm 5ft 9", and I went from nearly 217 to nearly 197. Going below 200 was important to me and now I fear about what if all come back as water weight if I take a break from keto. What if most of what I lost was water weight, what is my real weight loss are questions I'd like help with from those of you who have more experience.
I'm a 40 year old woman, the scale tells me most of the loss was fat but we know these scales aren't accurate. I'm 5ft 9", and I went from nearly 217 to nearly 197. Going below 200 was important to me and now I fear about what if all come back as water weight if I take a break from keto. What if most of what I lost was water weight, what is my real weight loss are questions I'd like help with from those of you who have more experience.
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There's no real way to tell. When you lose weight, you lose a combination of fat, water, and muscle. It's always going to be that way. By consuming adequate protein, you can minimize the muscle loss, but it's always going to be a mix. I think by depleting your glycogen stores, you are losing a lot of water but there's no way of telling what's fat and what's water and what is muscle when you lose weight.0
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Thanks @samanthaluangphixay . From what I understand there is some science to calculating the amount of initial weight loss in a low carb diet. This calculation depends on the amount of water glycogen binds... but various places show conflicting information. Hence I turn to those here who might have researched better and who would know from experience the amount of this water loss. There is also sodium, which also creeps water back on a cheat day I guess... but not sure how much that adds up to either.
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If you want to stay under 200, stay keto.
I definitely agree it will vary with each individual and precisely what is eaten. And I'll about guarantee it will be more than those 3 pounds that are having you under 200.
I can easily attract and additional 4 to 5 pounds on top of my usual 140 with an unfortunate transgression.
ETA: and that is a single short term episode. Not a day or a few days. I'd hate to see what might happen if I did that.4 -
simple. don't "take a break". if keto works very well for you, chances are you are insulin resistant at the very least. that's metabolic damage that takes a lot of healing, if it can heal entirely at all.5
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simple. don't "take a break". if keto works very well for you, chances are you are insulin resistant at the very least. that's metabolic damage that takes a lot of healing, if it can heal entirely at all.
This. Why take a break? If you can't live your life keto then just do low carb to lose the weight. If you don't keep up doing what creates the fat loss, there's less likelihood you'll keep it off.
Create a new lifestyle for longevity.3 -
Because I may want to eat some sushi or just rice or sweet potatoes and beets and eventually I will eat fruit besides raspberries and all of these will kick me out of ketosis and the water weight will come back. So I want to be prepared. I don't intend to stay keto once I lose the weight but I will definitely stay low/healthy carb.
I'm also trying to read more about this but due to a need to replenish leptin levels a lot of advice out there recommends taking a break once in a while.
I think this is a fantastic weight for weight loss and for learning good habits. However, come summer I want to eat peaches and watermelon and strawberries and I miss a good quinoa and rice bowl, lentil and chickpea soup, boiled potatoes once in a while.
I will however try not to take a break for as long as I can so my weight doesn't start with a 2!Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »simple. don't "take a break". if keto works very well for you, chances are you are insulin resistant at the very least. that's metabolic damage that takes a lot of healing, if it can heal entirely at all.
This. Why take a break? If you can't live your life keto then just do low carb to lose the weight. If you don't keep up doing what creates the fat loss, there's less likelihood you'll keep it off.
Create a new lifestyle for longevity.
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Thanks @lodro. I am insulin resistant it turns out. One of the reasons I chose to go this route to lose the weight. I will not take a break as long as I can. Easier in the winter.simple. don't "take a break". if keto works very well for you, chances are you are insulin resistant at the very least. that's metabolic damage that takes a lot of healing, if it can heal entirely at all.
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Good advice as it would really be demoralizing to see 200 so soon, or ever.
I was off for quiet a few days around my birthday and I went up more than 6 pounds I think. Though some of that could be due to sodium, too.
One thing I'm wondering is also how much actual fat I lost.If you want to stay under 200, stay keto.
I definitely agree it will vary with each individual and precisely what is eaten. And I'll about guarantee it will be more than those 3 pounds that are having you under 200.
I can easily attract and additional 4 to 5 pounds on top of my usual 140 with an unfortunate transgression.
ETA: and that is a single short term episode. Not a day or a few days. I'd hate to see what might happen if I did that.
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Because I may want to eat some sushi or just rice or sweet potatoes and beets and eventually I will eat fruit besides raspberries and all of these will kick me out of ketosis and the water weight will come back. So I want to be prepared. I don't intend to stay keto once I lose the weight but I will definitely stay low/healthy carb.
I'm also trying to read more about this but due to a need to replenish leptin levels a lot of advice out there recommends taking a break once in a while.
I think this is a fantastic weight for weight loss and for learning good habits. However, come summer I want to eat peaches and watermelon and strawberries and I miss a good quinoa and rice bowl, lentil and chickpea soup, boiled potatoes once in a while.
I will however try not to take a break for as long as I can so my weight doesn't start with a 2!Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »simple. don't "take a break". if keto works very well for you, chances are you are insulin resistant at the very least. that's metabolic damage that takes a lot of healing, if it can heal entirely at all.
This. Why take a break? If you can't live your life keto then just do low carb to lose the weight. If you don't keep up doing what creates the fat loss, there's less likelihood you'll keep it off.
Create a new lifestyle for longevity.
Ok. So. Keto does not create faster fat loss than low carb. It's more consistent adhearance that will get you there. And overall health in general.
UNLESS... you're diabetic or moderately insulin resistant. But if that's the case. You'll likely NEED keto for life to maintain weight anyway. So just get used to it.
You DO NOT lose faster just because you're in ketosis full time. You can lose just as quickly at any low carb level. Assuming that low carb alone controls your hunger and cravings. Even then, if you need keto to control hunger and cravings, you may always need it for that reason....2 -
Thanks. For me keto does sort of create faster fat loss because it puts you in a fat burning mode rather than carb burning mode. I think of this as the major advantage of ketogenic diets. It's also more sustainable for this reason I think. That is till I'm dreaming of fruit every day. (I started eating meat a couple of years ago for health reasons but I'm happy as a vegetarian. And keto is indeed teaching me how to be a low carb vegetarian, because I thought I needed to eat high protein and I don't. But once I get to maintanence, I will incorporate fruit and healthy carbs like wild rice and sweet potatoes and I won't be in ketosis then).
I had very specific reasons for putting on weight and once it's off, I think I should be able to maintain it with a low carb diet.
I was pre-diabetic and insulin resistant (not a single cause for this, but that's long.)
As much as keto might be good for me for life I know I wouldn't be able to sustain ketosis for life, because apples and oranges. I certainly can low carb though.
What I'm mainly wondering at this stage (and hence my original question) is how much of my weight loss was water weight. Say on Christmas I have some sweet potatoes and mashed potatoes, how much should I expect to be heavier due to glycogen storage?
[/quote]
Ok. So. Keto does not create faster fat loss than low carb. It's more consistent adhearance that will get you there. And overall health in general.
UNLESS... you're diabetic or moderately insulin resistant. But if that's the case. You'll likely NEED keto for life to maintain weight anyway. So just get used to it.
You DO NOT lose faster just because you're in ketosis full time. You can lose just as quickly at any low carb level. Assuming that low carb alone controls your hunger and cravings. Even then, if you need keto to control hunger and cravings, you may always need it for that reason....[/quote]
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Thanks @lodro. I am insulin resistant it turns out. One of the reasons I chose to go this route to lose the weight. I will not take a break as long as I can. Easier in the winter.simple. don't "take a break". if keto works very well for you, chances are you are insulin resistant at the very least. that's metabolic damage that takes a lot of healing, if it can heal entirely at all.
Believe me, I sympathize. I'm highly insulin resistant due to circumstances at birth (premature and very low birth weight). 2 years ago I realized that if I want to survive into my 70s, I need to let go of "carbs" now, in my 50s and hope for the best. I never looked back, but I've had to let thoughts of sushi and peaches go.3 -
Thanks for sharing @lodro. So sorry to hear this.
I actually do better on a moderate eating plan with no flour and sugar -- I don't put on weight like this. But I don't think it's effective for weight loss for me because cutting calories makes me feel deprived. I'm on keto now because I can't sustain a calorie cut on a carb burning mode. It exhausts me. With keto, I don't feel hungry. And I don't worry about losing muscle or not having enough energy for my mind.
I am learning habits. Like pairing my fruit with fats. Thank God for raspberries. I eat them pretty much everyday. Sometimes with sugar free whipped cream. Enough dessert for me. They are super low carb. Can you eat them?Thanks @lodro. I am insulin resistant it turns out. One of the reasons I chose to go this route to lose the weight. I will not take a break as long as I can. Easier in the winter.simple. don't "take a break". if keto works very well for you, chances are you are insulin resistant at the very least. that's metabolic damage that takes a lot of healing, if it can heal entirely at all.
Believe me, I sympathize. I'm highly insulin resistant due to circumstances at birth (premature and very low birth weight). 2 years ago I realized that if I want to survive into my 70s, I need to let go of "carbs" now, in my 50s and hope for the best. I never looked back, but I've had to let thoughts of sushi and peaches go.
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If you are concerned about your ability to sustain keto long term, then carb cycling might be a plan for you to explore as it would allow you to get in more carbs one day a week and may increase your long term adherence to your plan.1
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Because I may want to eat some sushi or just rice or sweet potatoes and beets and eventually I will eat fruit besides raspberries and all of these will kick me out of ketosis and the water weight will come back. So I want to be prepared. I don't intend to stay keto once I lose the weight but I will definitely stay low/healthy carb.
I'm also trying to read more about this but due to a need to replenish leptin levels a lot of advice out there recommends taking a break once in a while.
I think this is a fantastic weight for weight loss and for learning good habits. However, come summer I want to eat peaches and watermelon and strawberries and I miss a good quinoa and rice bowl, lentil and chickpea soup, boiled potatoes once in a while.
I will however try not to take a break for as long as I can so my weight doesn't start with a 2!Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »simple. don't "take a break". if keto works very well for you, chances are you are insulin resistant at the very least. that's metabolic damage that takes a lot of healing, if it can heal entirely at all.
This. Why take a break? If you can't live your life keto then just do low carb to lose the weight. If you don't keep up doing what creates the fat loss, there's less likelihood you'll keep it off.
Create a new lifestyle for longevity.
Ok. So. Keto does not create faster fat loss than low carb. It's more consistent adhearance that will get you there. And overall health in general.
UNLESS... you're diabetic or moderately insulin resistant. But if that's the case. You'll likely NEED keto for life to maintain weight anyway. So just get used to it.
You DO NOT lose faster just because you're in ketosis full time. You can lose just as quickly at any low carb level. Assuming that low carb alone controls your hunger and cravings. Even then, if you need keto to control hunger and cravings, you may always need it for that reason....
After two years of eating <50 grams most of the time I still can go Hog Wild and Pig Crazy when I over eat even good carbs from whole foods.
Eating a pound of pecans a day vs 2 oz will move my weight up.
Well one day is not the end of the world in my case but in my case one day of over eating even healthy pecans can turn into a week. It seems I need Keto for life to stay under 200.
Getting too busy to follow this MFP Keto group can lead to weight gaining in my case.
After a successful two years it's clear to me that I need to stay under 50 grams of carbs daily to manage my pain level and stay just under 200 pounds.
My returning pain levels plus the daily bathroom scale readout makes self correcting easier in my case.
As long as I stay off sugar and all grains AND eat <50 grams of carbs daily my life goes well.
There are many things that may look and even taste great in life that are best to not touch to keep life stresses as low as possible.
It is not deprivation for me to not do things that puts my health and home life at risk. At 65 protecting my health is part of protecting my family I now understand.5 -
Thanks, how much water weight do you think you gain when you go out of ketosis?GaleHawkins wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Because I may want to eat some sushi or just rice or sweet potatoes and beets and eventually I will eat fruit besides raspberries and all of these will kick me out of ketosis and the water weight will come back. So I want to be prepared. I don't intend to stay keto once I lose the weight but I will definitely stay low/healthy carb.
I'm also trying to read more about this but due to a need to replenish leptin levels a lot of advice out there recommends taking a break once in a while.
I think this is a fantastic weight for weight loss and for learning good habits. However, come summer I want to eat peaches and watermelon and strawberries and I miss a good quinoa and rice bowl, lentil and chickpea soup, boiled potatoes once in a while.
I will however try not to take a break for as long as I can so my weight doesn't start with a 2!Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »simple. don't "take a break". if keto works very well for you, chances are you are insulin resistant at the very least. that's metabolic damage that takes a lot of healing, if it can heal entirely at all.
This. Why take a break? If you can't live your life keto then just do low carb to lose the weight. If you don't keep up doing what creates the fat loss, there's less likelihood you'll keep it off.
Create a new lifestyle for longevity.
Ok. So. Keto does not create faster fat loss than low carb. It's more consistent adhearance that will get you there. And overall health in general.
UNLESS... you're diabetic or moderately insulin resistant. But if that's the case. You'll likely NEED keto for life to maintain weight anyway. So just get used to it.
You DO NOT lose faster just because you're in ketosis full time. You can lose just as quickly at any low carb level. Assuming that low carb alone controls your hunger and cravings. Even then, if you need keto to control hunger and cravings, you may always need it for that reason....
After two years of eating <50 grams most of the time I still can go Hog Wild and Pig Crazy when I over eat even good carbs from whole foods.
Eating a pound of pecans a day vs 2 oz will move my weight up.
Well one day is not the end of the world in my case but in my case one day of over eating even healthy pecans can turn into a week. It seems I need Keto for life to stay under 200.
Getting too busy to follow this MFP Keto group can lead to weight gaining in my case.
After a successful two years it's clear to me that I need to stay under 50 grams of carbs daily to manage my pain level and stay just under 200 pounds.
My returning pain levels plus the daily bathroom scale readout makes self correcting easier in my case.
As long as I stay off sugar and all grains AND eat <50 grams of carbs daily my life goes well.
There are many things that may look and even taste great in life that are best to not touch to keep life stresses as low as possible.
It is not deprivation for me to not do things that puts my health and home life at risk. At 65 protecting my health is part of protecting my family I now understand.
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Yes, I'm trying to learn about this though will not begin this way until I know my weight won't suddenly go above 200. Maybe when I get down to 180s.tcunbeliever wrote: »If you are concerned about your ability to sustain keto long term, then carb cycling might be a plan for you to explore as it would allow you to get in more carbs one day a week and may increase your long term adherence to your plan.
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For me, depending how long I'm out of K for it can be between 4 and 10lbs but either way I can usually lose it in a little over a week1
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Losing ketosis doesn't seem like the major issue with carb binges. (After all, you can get good blood ketone readings after a pasta dinner, provided you add enough MCT oil.....) Worst case scenario, it takes you a few weeks to get back to where you were.
The biggest danger for most of us carb addicts is falling off the *kitten* wagon. Like cigs, pain pills, alcohol, etc., you can be away from them for years, and *poof!* all of a sudden, your addiction's back as an intense and present life problem.
Or, as Dr. Bernstein puts it, few humans can embrace temptation just once.6 -
Losing ketosis doesn't seem like the major issue with carb binges. (After all, you can get good blood ketone readings after a pasta dinner, provided you add enough MCT oil.....) Worst case scenario, it takes you a few weeks to get back to where you were.
The biggest danger for most of us carb addicts is falling off the *kitten* wagon. Like cigs, pain pills, alcohol, etc., you can be away from them for years, and *poof!* all of a sudden, your addiction's back as an intense and present life problem.
Or, as Dr. Bernstein puts it, few humans can embrace temptation just once.
This is me I. I can't let carbs into my life, I'm ok with it I don't miss them. There are so many great keto recipes and lucky I was never a big fruit eater it always gives me heartburn ( even bananas give me heartburn )1 -
Losing ketosis doesn't seem like the major issue with carb binges. (After all, you can get good blood ketone readings after a pasta dinner, provided you add enough MCT oil.....) Worst case scenario, it takes you a few weeks to get back to where you were.
The biggest danger for most of us carb addicts is falling off the *kitten* wagon. Like cigs, pain pills, alcohol, etc., you can be away from them for years, and *poof!* all of a sudden, your addiction's back as an intense and present life problem.
Or, as Dr. Bernstein puts it, few humans can embrace temptation just once.
This is me too. Carb creep... It really does creep. It starts with extra veggies, then maybe a bite or two of potato and then I'm hungry. If I actually eat something carby that is sugary or flour based, my hunger comes roaring back. I'm hungry and thinking of food for days. Plus I feel crappy, excluding those few minutes on the lips.
Anyways, in my first 20lbs lost, I would guess that 1-3 lbs was water. If I am out of ketosis, I don't notice more than a couple of pounds of difference but I also have an overactive liver (gluconeogenesis) that pumps out more glucose than I'd like at night. I may be in ketosis at bedtime but I am often not by morning. Because I am not deeply in ketosis, perhaps it affects how much water weight I shed?
... 1-3 lbs is my guess.
Good luck with your transition. I'm like some of the others here. I've tried transitioning back from successful diets in the past. I couldn't maintain it. I now realize that I need to stick with very LCHF (the diet that works best for weight loss for me and my health) if I want to not re-lose my ground.4
