How do you up your sodium?
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Still felt rather dizzy today...but I did manage to get in 6034mg of sodium. Hopefully I will be able to keep my sodium intake up and start to feel better. Everything else is going great! I have really low blood pressure so I don't think I have to worry about any HBP from sodium. My dr once told me because my BP is so low, not to worry to much about watching my sodium.
Could there be anything else adding to feeling crappy? I am just finishing week 2...maybe I just need more time to adjust?2 -
Plenty of fluids? Potassium, magnesium?
(Tequila?)1 -
I have a feeling Tequila would make the dizziness worse...lol. I will up my water intake and maybe get a magnesium supplement.1
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Misskim121211 wrote: »I have a feeling Tequila would make the dizziness worse...lol. I will up my water intake and maybe get a magnesium supplement.
Haha! Could be...
The Keto-Ade recipe above is a great way to hydrate.
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »OK, intensely stupid question, but how do you know what you're getting each day? I only ever eat home prepared stuff, the recipes have a measured amount but most of what I get is just sprinkled over the plate (I mix the sodium and potassium salts). Just bought some magnesium tablets. MFP tracks the recipes, but do you actually measure and log the sprinkles? BTW reading this because there's something up - dizziness.
You know you're getting enough of you specifically seek out added sodium. You can't get enough from just salting food. You get symptoms like dizziness when sodium is low.
And you can't just treat it when a symptom arises. You need to get a bare minimum of 3000mg - 5000mg a day knowing that may not be enough.
Thanks for your help. So hypothetically - just so I can get a clear idea of how much that is - if I'm aiming for 5000mg - that would be about 2 1/2 tsp of salt per day (obvs not taking into account food diary, pickle juice and other exciting suggestions!). If I've got that right then what about potassium? I've been grossly underestimating this!
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »OK, intensely stupid question, but how do you know what you're getting each day? I only ever eat home prepared stuff, the recipes have a measured amount but most of what I get is just sprinkled over the plate (I mix the sodium and potassium salts). Just bought some magnesium tablets. MFP tracks the recipes, but do you actually measure and log the sprinkles? BTW reading this because there's something up - dizziness.
You know you're getting enough of you specifically seek out added sodium. You can't get enough from just salting food. You get symptoms like dizziness when sodium is low.
And you can't just treat it when a symptom arises. You need to get a bare minimum of 3000mg - 5000mg a day knowing that may not be enough.
Thanks for your help. So hypothetically - just so I can get a clear idea of how much that is - if I'm aiming for 5000mg - that would be about 2 1/2 tsp of salt per day (obvs not taking into account food diary, pickle juice and other exciting suggestions!). If I've got that right then what about potassium? I've been grossly underestimating this!
You get about 2300mg per teaspoon of table salt. A little less if actually measuring by spoon with large crystals of sea salt, but by weight they are pretty much the same.
Since you're also eating salty foods and salting your food you can probably make it a point to supplement that with about 3000mg and you can at least be sure you're just above the bare minimum that way. So I would just aim for 1.5 tsp to start. If you have a day that you take in a lot more liquids than normal or are working out really hard or sweating a lot, you'd need to be aware you may have a need for a bit more sodium on those days.
If you're doing all this and you still have symptoms of dizziness, especially upon standing, or headaches... you may just need more than the lower end of the recommendation. So add another half teaspoon and see if that fixes you up.
As far as potassium, other than maybe using a lite salt made of potassium chloride, I wouldn't bother supplementing it. You actually eat more than you realize because it's not required to be on nutrition labels so you eat more than you realize. Even coffee and tea have potassium. Your potassium needs should be fine with food as long as you're keeping sodium up. I personally believe very much in supplementing magnesium though. Even our foods are deficient in it so it's pretty much impossible to get enough magnesium for optimal use. Your body uses it for over 300 enzymatic processes every day and if you don't have enough, some of those things are de-prioritized.
Use a form of magnesium that ends in "ate" like glycinate, malate, carbonate or citrate... there are others too. Any that end in "ate" will be more bioavailable. You can take as the bottle directs to get a basic level or you can choose (totally optional) to maximize the amount your body can use by finding your personal maximum dosage.
This would only be if you wanted to try to provide absolutely as much magnesium as your body could possibly use each day. If you want that, I can explain it more but again, that's totally optional and not necessary.
If you want to learn more about magnesium there's a great book called The Magnesium Miracle5 -
Thanks for the Na clarification. I agree with your thoughts on K, the lo-salt does it's job there (toe-cramps tell me if I've forgotten it!). I've started supplementing the magnesium, because it's a tricky bugger to get right. I lived in the tropics for years and thought about electrolytes every day. You could go from feeling a little 'low' to really ill in a matter of hours there. But somehow, didn't see the same symptoms creeping in with Keto. You've helped a lot. Thanks. BTW keto-sticks responded rapidly with those dark-purples you mentioned once the Na was right. I know,
they don't really matter. Just a curiosity!
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »OK, intensely stupid question, but how do you know what you're getting each day? I only ever eat home prepared stuff, the recipes have a measured amount but most of what I get is just sprinkled over the plate (I mix the sodium and potassium salts). Just bought some magnesium tablets. MFP tracks the recipes, but do you actually measure and log the sprinkles? BTW reading this because there's something up - dizziness.
You know you're getting enough of you specifically seek out added sodium. You can't get enough from just salting food. You get symptoms like dizziness when sodium is low.
And you can't just treat it when a symptom arises. You need to get a bare minimum of 3000mg - 5000mg a day knowing that may not be enough.
Thanks for your help. So hypothetically - just so I can get a clear idea of how much that is - if I'm aiming for 5000mg - that would be about 2 1/2 tsp of salt per day (obvs not taking into account food diary, pickle juice and other exciting suggestions!). If I've got that right then what about potassium? I've been grossly underestimating this!
You get about 2300mg per teaspoon of table salt. A little less if actually measuring by spoon with large crystals of sea salt, but by weight they are pretty much the same.
Since you're also eating salty foods and salting your food you can probably make it a point to supplement that with about 3000mg and you can at least be sure you're just above the bare minimum that way. So I would just aim for 1.5 tsp to start. If you have a day that you take in a lot more liquids than normal or are working out really hard or sweating a lot, you'd need to be aware you may have a need for a bit more sodium on those days.
If you're doing all this and you still have symptoms of dizziness, especially upon standing, or headaches... you may just need more than the lower end of the recommendation. So add another half teaspoon and see if that fixes you up.
As far as potassium, other than maybe using a lite salt made of potassium chloride, I wouldn't bother supplementing it. You actually eat more than you realize because it's not required to be on nutrition labels so you eat more than you realize. Even coffee and tea have potassium. Your potassium needs should be fine with food as long as you're keeping sodium up. I personally believe very much in supplementing magnesium though. Even our foods are deficient in it so it's pretty much impossible to get enough magnesium for optimal use. Your body uses it for over 300 enzymatic processes every day and if you don't have enough, some of those things are de-prioritized.
Use a form of magnesium that ends in "ate" like glycinate, malate, carbonate or citrate... there are others too. Any that end in "ate" will be more bioavailable. You can take as the bottle directs to get a basic level or you can choose (totally optional) to maximize the amount your body can use by finding your personal maximum dosage.
This would only be if you wanted to try to provide absolutely as much magnesium as your body could possibly use each day. If you want that, I can explain it more but again, that's totally optional and not necessary.
If you want to learn more about magnesium there's a great book called The Magnesium Miracle
Great insights - thanks for your contributions.
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This thread has perfect timing! I've also been feeling a little dizzy/light headed when standing or lifting. Only been doing the lowish (~100) carb thing for a week but wasn't paying any attention to sodium intake.3
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Thanks for the Na clarification. I agree with your thoughts on K, the lo-salt does it's job there (toe-cramps tell me if I've forgotten it!). I've started supplementing the magnesium, because it's a tricky bugger to get right. I lived in the tropics for years and thought about electrolytes every day. You could go from feeling a little 'low' to really ill in a matter of hours there. But somehow, didn't see the same symptoms creeping in with Keto. You've helped a lot. Thanks. BTW keto-sticks responded rapidly with those dark-purples you mentioned once the Na was right. I know,
they don't really matter. Just a curiosity!
You'll just have to pretend you're in the tropics again!
Glad you're feeling better. Congrats on the ketones!
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If you're already feeling dizzy, how long does it take to reverse? I started feeling dizzy when standing yesterday. Didn't make the connection until today when I'm dizzy even when sitting. If I start increasing my sodium today, when might I expect the dizziness to decrease again?2
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codename_steve wrote: »If you're already feeling dizzy, how long does it take to reverse? I started feeling dizzy when standing yesterday. Didn't make the connection until today when I'm dizzy even when sitting. If I start increasing my sodium today, when might I expect the dizziness to decrease again?
Get 1000mg sodium and you may see it clear up within 15 minutes.3 -
MyriiStorm wrote: »Keto-ade:
1/4 tsp. salt (sodium chloride)
1/4 tsp. "lite" salt (potassium chloride)
1 Tbsp. lime juice
4 drops liquid stevia
16 - 20 oz. water
Some people prefer Mio instead of the lime juice and stevia. I hope you get the electrolytes worked out soon!
We get potassium from various foods. Potassium just isn't always properly listed on foods.
This site lists the potassium in various foods per 100g. Chicken has potassium, eggs, cheese, nuts, greens, and etc.
http://apjcn.nhri.org.tw/server/info/books-phds/books/foodfacts/html/data/data5b.html
http://www.pittsburgh.va.gov/Dialysis/docs/PotassiumValuesofFood.pdf
If you get enough potassium via food and enough sodium, you don't need to supplement much, if at all. So I'd change the ketoade recipe to "up to 1/4 tsp" but I think half that might be better once you know your sodium levels have been fine for some time, as you'll have a reserve that is preserved. Healthy sodium levels preserve magnesium and potassium levels.
Sodium>mag>potassium
So I don't supplement lite salt much any more. I do a few healthy shakes in my ketoade and let it be. If you are getting 5000mg of sodium daily, your magnesium over 400mg, and you still have keto flu symptoms, it's ok to supplement it a little to see if that's what you're missing. But otherwise I wouldn't worry obsessively over potassium as long as you are eating a variety of foods.2 -
I'm REALLY glad I found this discussion! Yesterday I had a strange episode of weakness and nausea as I was dropping my kids off at school. I had to rest for 20 minutes before I felt safe to drive and still felt dizzy and weak as I got back into bed and cried off work for the day. After an hour or so in bed I decided to have something to eat and, over the course of the next couple of hours I ate half a pound of bacon, 4 eggs and a bag of pork rinds. I felt almost immediately better. Seeing this post this morning got me to check my sodium intake over the last few days and I was very surprised to discover that, for the previous 3 days, my intake had been VERY low - less than 400ug on one day and less than 1000ug on the following 2 days and I'd drunk 3l of water on each day. Looking at the symptoms of sodium deficiency I wasn't surprised to see that they were weakness, headache, nausea and fatigue - all the symptoms I'd experienced the day before. I have learned an important lesson in how crucial it is to keep sodium levels at their optimum and will be taking much greater care to ensure that I keep them up!4
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baconslave wrote: »Read this for some more explanations on Electrolytes:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10358179/keto-flu-dizzy-weak-tired-headaches-cramping-muscles-electrolyte-imbalance-may-be-your-problem#latest
This is a good overview and comes in handy even for long-time lchf peeps like me. I just got results back on my Dec. checkup -- turns out I have a mild 1 degree ventricular block (from the ECG). Need to be more vigilant about electrolytes!2 -
Catawampous wrote: »Here's a question. What do people with HBP do about larger intakes of sodium like this? Is there an alternative that can be used?
My blood pressure goes up when I increase my sodium. Some folks have found that after being on keto a while they are able to decrease their sodium intake. I guess we just have to find the right balance for our own bodies.1 -
Catawampous wrote: »Here's a question. What do people with HBP do about larger intakes of sodium like this? Is there an alternative that can be used?
My 1st answer would be to talk to your doc letting her/him know you will be (are) eating a ketogenic diet and get her/his opinion regarding increasing sodium and see what they say. All doctors are not ignorant of keto diets and related sodium needs. Nor are they anti-keto.
I think you're eating keto now? Have you had need to increase you sodium and has it increased you blood pressure? Perhaps you might be one of the folks who doesn't need to increase sodium to "high" levels in order to keep electrolytes balanced. Perhaps your "normal" intake is adequate for you.
2nd part, my HBP experience FWIW. I was not eating keto. I was overweight and I was on HBP meds. My doc's instruction was to keep sodium at 1500mg or below. I lost weight. I am off HBP meds. My Doc's instructions were then, since I no longer had high blood pressure, to not exceed 4000 mg of sodium. I was intrigued by that 4000 number being so different than the ~2300 we hear all the time. Fast forward a couple years: I eat keto. I increase my sodium sometimes to 4000 or maybe a little over, as needed or convenient. The increased sodium has not had an effect on my BP.
All said: If my high blood pressure returns, I will darn sure opt for #1 and head straight to my doc for her input and professional expertise telling her I choose to remain keto. I'll then evaluate. The other thing is, as beneficial as keto is for many things, one does not have to eat keto in order to lose weight. Weight loss and exercise brought my blood pressure down. Not keto. Exercise keeps the BP down. I've had at least 2.5 years to test that n=1. Though I have no proof that keto helps keep it down due to it being diuretic, I think it probably does. No proof though.
Sorry so winded. Hopefully there is something in all that to help you make a decision for yourself.2 -
I'm not a doctor and had experiences with the keto flu symptoms in week one and last about 2 weeks. I was tiered, light headed, migraines, and always felt hunger pains. I spoke with a couple of my coworkers who got me on the low carb diet and that said plain a simple.
A) Make sure your getting enough fat. It helps with hunger pains and does help with headaches.
your body is starving for vitamins and minerals. They told me about making sure I take my multi daily and fish oil.
C) They said when it gets really bad drink a PowerAde Zero. This way you can keep one in your lunch pail just in case. And it helped a lot when your at work/school/gym nobody has time to mixing and playing mad scientist with salts and stuff. Let me tell you from my own experience my symptom's cleared up and I was able to move forward with the diet. There is a lot of good answers here but keep it simple. I followed their, and the forums advice, and today I am 4lbs. down.0 -
norman_waylon wrote: »I'm not a doctor and had experiences with the keto flu symptoms in week one and last about 2 weeks. I was tiered, light headed, migraines, and always felt hunger pains. I spoke with a couple of my coworkers who got me on the low carb diet and that said plain a simple.
A) Make sure your getting enough fat. It helps with hunger pains and does help with headaches. your body is starving for vitamins and minerals. They told me about making sure I take my multi daily and fish oil.
C) They said when it gets really bad drink a PowerAde Zero. This way you can keep one in your lunch pail just in case. And it helped a lot when your at work/school/gym nobody has time to mixing and playing mad scientist with salts and stuff. Let me tell you from my own experience my symptom's cleared up and I was able to move forward with the diet. There is a lot of good answers here but keep it simple. I followed their, and the forums advice, and today I am 4lbs. down.
41 pounds not 43 -
I'm probably going to get absolutely roasted for this comment, but I am a diet coke drinker. I have NEVER had the keto flu, light headedness, hair falling out, etc. I attribute it to the sodium in the diet soda. I have a few a day, and am never low then.
BUT some people stall on diet soda, not to mention the health stuff with drinking it, yada yada. I know when I drink diet Pepsi.. just to mix it up a bit, I totally start craving sweets. The drink is just Too sweet for me and so I stay away.
*I'm slowly subbing out half my soda intake for flavored water, so don't fear y'all.. I'm working on it.2 -
Oh my. Forgot about my question LOL. I do have HBP but I don't appear to be sodium sensitive. Last time I was at doc's we actually talked about taking me off them!! YAY! But he wants to wait a while because I do have mitral valve prolapse and he wants to monitor that and my BP for a bit yet. My average lately has been about 120/74 and I roughly taken in between 4000/4500 sodium daily.
I think I was more curious than anything if keto was off limits to sodium sensitive folks or if there was another way for them.1 -
AngiesCookie wrote: »I'm probably going to get absolutely roasted for this comment, but I am a diet coke drinker. I have NEVER had the keto flu, light headedness, hair falling out, etc. I attribute it to the sodium in the diet soda. I have a few a day, and am never low then.
BUT some people stall on diet soda, not to mention the health stuff with drinking it, yada yada. I know when I drink diet Pepsi.. just to mix it up a bit, I totally start craving sweets. The drink is just Too sweet for me and so I stay away.
*I'm slowly subbing out half my soda intake for flavored water, so don't fear y'all.. I'm working on it.
According to Dr Nally, Diet Coke and Diet Dr Pepper are better choices (at least in the US) because they do not use ace k (acesulfame potassium) as a sweetener like all the others do. He claims ace k has an insulin response in many people which could explain your post Diet Pepsi cravings.
In my own n=1 experimentation, I have found Diet Dr Pepper seems to actually help lower my PP BG readings when I have some with my lunch. YMMV
BTW, my experience is it is very rare to be "roasted" by people in this group. It is FAR more supportive of those who opt for variations than most. Which makes sense since those who chose LC(HF) already get shunned by the general public enough. The tide may be turning, but no one in this group is eating in a way that is broadly accepted yet.1 -
Bit of an update on my attempts to re-balance my electrolytes after an odd spell of dizziness and nausea...
I've added a teaspoon of Lo-salt to my diet every day for potassium and have started supplementing magnesium. I seem to get close to enough sodium through just salting food (plus from bacon and cheese) and I haven't experienced any similar symptoms since then, almost a full month ago, so I'm hopeful that I've not only got to the root of the problem but that I've also found the solution!1 -
I drink original V8. I know its a little high on carbs but when I really, really need the electrolytes it works the best for me. The rest of the time I just don't restrict salt and that seems to help.1
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Pickle juice. I've always loved it so it's really just giving me a reason to drink it nearly daily. lol
Otherwise I've started making bone broth too and boullion is ok also.
So if I don't want the pickles, just the juice, where can I find that?
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https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=pickle+juice&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=153739794718&hvpos=1t1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4622655959311556180&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009674&hvtargid=kwd-1152810572&ref=pd_sl_7e1a9511zf_e
I'd be reluctant to purchase just juice. Dill pickles come in so many varieties. I make salt water (crock) pickles in the summer when I have a bunch of cucumbers...and drink the incredibly salty juice too. Tastes just like the pickles.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Pickle juice. I've always loved it so it's really just giving me a reason to drink it nearly daily. lol
Otherwise I've started making bone broth too and boullion is ok also.
So if I don't want the pickles, just the juice, where can I find that?
I have actually seen that before but it cost more than a whole jar of pickles did!
If all you want is the juice, honestly, is just mix up my own.
Adjust amounts to taste.
I'd try apple cider vinegar, water, salt and you can even throw in some spices if you like. Red pepper flakes, garlic, peppercorns... whatever sounds good.
But you could always buy cheap pickles and just drink the juice
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Good thread, I think I've been under in my sodium counts so I've been upping the amount I use in my food and will supplement with a bit more to avoid my dreaded wake up calf cramps I get on occasion.1
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one thing i just started is adding 2 cubes of chicken bouillon to a bottle of water before i go to bed. it'll slowly dissolve overnight. i take it to work the next day and just add some throughout the day to the water i normally drink.
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My crazy idea:
I take a weekly pill / vitamin container. Then with a food scale I weigh out 4 to 5 grams of my Bonairean sea salt in each one. 2 or 3 times a day I pour a bit in my hand, pop it in my mouth like a vitamin pill, and wash it down with a big glass of water.
Works for me.
Phinney's latest video on Low Carb Down Under addresses the sodium issue well, specifically the reasons that most people DON'T need to restrict sodium.
Adequate salt intake on this way of eating is so critical, and so easily missed I simply treat salt like medicine / a supplement.3
This discussion has been closed.