11 proteins that spike insulin
cstehansen
Posts: 1,984 Member
Just thought with all the protein/insulin threads that have been out there lately that this link might be helpful. In addition to individual differences discussed in the various threads, we also have to consider not all proteins/amino acids are created equal in terms of insulin response.
https://docmuscles.com/2017/01/22/11-proteins-that-spike-insulin/
https://docmuscles.com/2017/01/22/11-proteins-that-spike-insulin/
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Replies
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@cstehansen - CRAP ON A STICK.
Many of these may play into my recent elevations in insulin.
I take Lysine for management of a viral condition. During an event, that can be upwards of 4000 mg a day, plus whatever amount is in my Magnesium Glycinate.
I love shrimp, but due to cost, I don't eat it often...I guess that is good in this case. Sesame and soy and I are not friends, so I guess that helps too. I wonder why in particular Sea Lion Liver....I wonder if this is to a lesser degree with all livers? Pork loin and chicken - mainstays in my pantry when on sale - I wonder how to buffer this reaction? And spirulina - I recently added a formula that has this to lessen my vitamin A exposure...while increasing it (too much at once, etc.)...
The majority of these things have all increased in volume in the last 6-12+ months, which is that same general timeframe in which my insulin levels increased.
I know that you can consume whey at the beginning of a meal, and buffer the reaction by having the carbs (any realistic level eaten) afterward... I wonder if there are any ways to mitigate this reaction by having things in combination or avoiding combinations?2 -
This is an interesting source also. It's designed to highlight the nutritional density each food provides based on a 100% RDA scale. But it also shows the insulinogenic quality of each type of food.
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2016/09/05/comparison-of-nutrients-provided-by-different-food-groups/3 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »@cstehansen - CRAP ON A STICK.
Many of these may play into my recent elevations in insulin.
I take Lysine for management of a viral condition. During an event, that can be upwards of 4000 mg a day, plus whatever amount is in my Magnesium Glycinate.
I love shrimp, but due to cost, I don't eat it often...I guess that is good in this case. Sesame and soy and I are not friends, so I guess that helps too. I wonder why in particular Sea Lion Liver....I wonder if this is to a lesser degree with all livers? Pork loin and chicken - mainstays in my pantry when on sale - I wonder how to buffer this reaction? And spirulina - I recently added a formula that has this to lessen my vitamin A exposure...while increasing it (too much at once, etc.)...
The majority of these things have all increased in volume in the last 6-12+ months, which is that same general timeframe in which my insulin levels increased.
I know that you can consume whey at the beginning of a meal, and buffer the reaction by having the carbs (any realistic level eaten) afterward... I wonder if there are any ways to mitigate this reaction by having things in combination or avoiding combinations?
This was a topic on last week's episode of KetoTalk with Jimmy and the Doc. He mentioned a few amino acids that have the highest insulin response. The two largest being mentioned on that link.
As for the sea lion liver, I would guess that based on the number of seafood items on the list that it has more to do with that than it being a liver.
Fortunately, the top 6 are never in my diet. Pork loin is, but I tend to lean toward pork shoulder when I can. As I can show you from my dinner last night with pork rind crusted chicken quarters, I do eat some chicken.
One thing I did take from this is soy is not our friend. Already new soybean oil was bad for us. Now I know the protein portion isn't the best either. One more reason to eat beef whenever I can.1 -
cstehansen wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »@cstehansen - CRAP ON A STICK.
Many of these may play into my recent elevations in insulin.
I take Lysine for management of a viral condition. During an event, that can be upwards of 4000 mg a day, plus whatever amount is in my Magnesium Glycinate.
I love shrimp, but due to cost, I don't eat it often...I guess that is good in this case. Sesame and soy and I are not friends, so I guess that helps too. I wonder why in particular Sea Lion Liver....I wonder if this is to a lesser degree with all livers? Pork loin and chicken - mainstays in my pantry when on sale - I wonder how to buffer this reaction? And spirulina - I recently added a formula that has this to lessen my vitamin A exposure...while increasing it (too much at once, etc.)...
The majority of these things have all increased in volume in the last 6-12+ months, which is that same general timeframe in which my insulin levels increased.
I know that you can consume whey at the beginning of a meal, and buffer the reaction by having the carbs (any realistic level eaten) afterward... I wonder if there are any ways to mitigate this reaction by having things in combination or avoiding combinations?
This was a topic on last week's episode of KetoTalk with Jimmy and the Doc. He mentioned a few amino acids that have the highest insulin response. The two largest being mentioned on that link.
As for the sea lion liver, I would guess that based on the number of seafood items on the list that it has more to do with that than it being a liver.
Fortunately, the top 6 are never in my diet. Pork loin is, but I tend to lean toward pork shoulder when I can. As I can show you from my dinner last night with pork rind crusted chicken quarters, I do eat some chicken.
One thing I did take from this is soy is not our friend. Already new soybean oil was bad for us. Now I know the protein portion isn't the best either. One more reason to eat beef whenever I can.
Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on your perspective, I learned how much my body hated soy back in the early 2000's. Then the research followed. The only folks I know that seem to do well with soy have some sort of Japanese or Pacific Islander genetics.
I might have to see about downloading or listening to that talk...1 -
As someone currently more interested in anabolism, this sets some wheels spinning. It makes me wonder if I can get a better overall response from say, combining a soy protein with whey, as opposed to using dextrose with whey.
If the insulin reactions are comparable, it could give me a way to create the spike I am looking for, without needing the dextrose on days that I am clipping carbs to dry back out.3 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »As someone currently more interested in anabolism, this sets some wheels spinning. It makes me wonder if I can get a better overall response from say, combining a soy protein with whey, as opposed to using dextrose with whey.
If the insulin reactions are comparable, it could give me a way to create the spike I am looking for, without needing the dextrose on days that I am clipping carbs to dry back out.
If I understand what you are trying to correctly, then, yes this would be something to try. He was very clear that this was a direct insulin response, and NOT that these proteins were being converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis.0 -
I fell down the rabbit hole with those two links. Thanks.0
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cstehansen wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »As someone currently more interested in anabolism, this sets some wheels spinning. It makes me wonder if I can get a better overall response from say, combining a soy protein with whey, as opposed to using dextrose with whey.
If the insulin reactions are comparable, it could give me a way to create the spike I am looking for, without needing the dextrose on days that I am clipping carbs to dry back out.
If I understand what you are trying to correctly, then, yes this would be something to try. He was very clear that this was a direct insulin response, and NOT that these proteins were being converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis.
Yeap, and since insulin is necessary for storage in muscle as well as fat (except for dietary fat storage, as that can happen in the total absence of insulin), it could prove a useful replacement during those times.1 -
I'm interested whether anyone else has dabbled with only consuming protein every other day as a means to prevent insulin secretion...of course protein (EAAs) are necessary but thinking that consuming them every other day would stave off starvation/edema.
Then there is the "pure protein" diet approach, consuming high protein with little to know fat for a few days only for some extreme kcal deficits...Sylvester Stallone apparently used this method. Similar to "bodybuilder keto" but a more extreme protein: fat ratio and short duration. Would definitely appease those who are 100% purists in CICO or physics0 -
Sea lion liver.... Huh. Anyone ever had that? Curious.
Thanks for the list. I was expecting whey protein powder to be on there. I'll have to look up where it stands in comparison.1 -
Seal/polar bear/sea lion liver vit A toxicity. www.ncbi.nlm.nhi.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1257872/1
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I'm interested whether anyone else has dabbled with only consuming protein every other day as a means to prevent insulin secretion...of course protein (EAAs) are necessary but thinking that consuming them every other day would stave off starvation/edema.
Then there is the "pure protein" diet approach, consuming high protein with little to know fat for a few days only for some extreme kcal deficits...Sylvester Stallone apparently used this method. Similar to "bodybuilder keto" but a more extreme protein: fat ratio and short duration. Would definitely appease those who are 100% purists in CICO or physics
I use a 90+% protein protocol for cutting. It's not something I'd recommend for most people, for a couple of reasons.
1: it requires very strict adherence and discipline. Most people on MFP do not qualify, or the majority wouldn't be here to begin with.
2: your energy levels will suck balls unless you are morbidly obese.
3: if you don't have the satchel to max intensity weight train while on the cut, you are going to be screwing yourself out of a lot of LBM, though still less than any other VLCD.
I did 3x full body lifting sessions per week, all utilizing 90%+ of 1RM, on 750 kcals/day of protein, and enough fish oil caps to cover my EFA needs. Not many people can stick to such a thing, but that's how Sly rolled, and I do the same. It's only about two weeks at a time though.1 -
Sea lion liver.... Huh. Anyone ever had that? Curious.
Thanks for the list. I was expecting whey protein powder to be on there. I'll have to look up where it stands in comparison.
I was just reading more about how whey is insulinogenic. I'll see if I can find what I was reading in my history.1 -
Sea lion liver.... Huh. Anyone ever had that? Curious.
Thanks for the list. I was expecting whey protein powder to be on there. I'll have to look up where it stands in comparison.
Ok. Here ya go.
Mouse study, but still. I don't think wheys insulinogenic qualities are being debated.
"Postprandial amino acids, glucose-dependent insulinotropic polypeptide (GIP) and glucagon-like peptide 1 (GLP-1) responses were higher after whey compared to white wheat bread"
https://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-9-482 -
canadjineh wrote: »Seal/polar bear/sea lion liver vit A toxicity. www.ncbi.nlm.nhi.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1257872/
Huh. A good excuse to avoid liver. Well, arctic livers anyways.
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Sea lion liver.... Huh. Anyone ever had that? Curious.
Thanks for the list. I was expecting whey protein powder to be on there. I'll have to look up where it stands in comparison.
I was just reading more about how whey is insulinogenic. I'll see if I can find what I was reading in my history.
I'd love to know what you think on it.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/82/1/69.full
Conclusions:It can be concluded that the addition of whey to meals with rapidly digested and absorbed carbohydrates stimulates insulin release and reduces postprandial blood glucose excursion after a lunch meal consisting of mashed potatoes and meatballs in type 2 diabetic subjects.
I don't "get" studies like this. Maybe I'm thinking in circles. So whey increases insulin release which lowers BG in T2Ds but aren't those who are IR trying to avoid excess insulin because we are trying to improve our sensitivity?
I mean, injecting a bolus with a meal of mashed potatoes would lower BG too, but is that what we want? 0 -
No whey...2
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http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/82/1/69.full
Conclusions:It can be concluded that the addition of whey to meals with rapidly digested and absorbed carbohydrates stimulates insulin release and reduces postprandial blood glucose excursion after a lunch meal consisting of mashed potatoes and meatballs in type 2 diabetic subjects.
I don't "get" studies like this. Maybe I'm thinking in circles. So whey increases insulin release which lowers BG in T2Ds but aren't those who are IR trying to avoid excess insulin because we are trying to improve our sensitivity?
I mean, injecting a bolus with a meal of mashed potatoes would lower BG too, but is that what we want?
This is interesting for me because I am in the minority of T2 who are not IR. Perhaps adding whey into meals would actually help me out.
The current path I am on after changing doctors has all my readings trending down. When they level off, if they are not as low as I would like, I think I may add this to my list of potential n=1 experiments.1 -
I was just reading more about how whey is insulinogenic. I'll see if I can find what I was reading in my history.
I'd love to know what you think on it.
I found the details hard to understand because I don't know anything about the specific actions of the amino acids it's referencing. I think this part seems to explain that the insulin stimulation is caused by the specific cocktail of amino acids that are present with whey. It specifically notes the insulin response isn't from glucose but these amino acids.
This part is actually referencing the rise of each amino acid in humans.
So, it does make sense that lower blood sugar could be the end result though I don't think that was ever measured as part of this study.
It still makes me feel like stimulating insulin may not be a good thing long term though. I mean there is still the concern of B cell burnout or developing IR.... I don't know. Just thoughts.
It did seem that it was a short lived action though. Measurements were highest at 15 and 30 minutes and dropped off at 45 minutes.
Perhaps it would be useful right before a muscle building workout???2 -
canadjineh wrote: »Seal/polar bear/sea lion liver vit A toxicity. www.ncbi.nlm.nhi.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1257872/
This link is broken. Why is that liver in particular about Vitamin A toxicity? I know A is a concern, but when balanced with D3/K2 and E's, it prevents toxicity in reasonable doses... @canadjineh0 -
here is another link that explains the issue ( @KnitOrMiss ) :
https://www.121dietitian.com/never-eat-a-polar-bears-liver/1 -
cstehansen wrote: »http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/82/1/69.full
Conclusions:It can be concluded that the addition of whey to meals with rapidly digested and absorbed carbohydrates stimulates insulin release and reduces postprandial blood glucose excursion after a lunch meal consisting of mashed potatoes and meatballs in type 2 diabetic subjects.
I don't "get" studies like this. Maybe I'm thinking in circles. So whey increases insulin release which lowers BG in T2Ds but aren't those who are IR trying to avoid excess insulin because we are trying to improve our sensitivity?
I mean, injecting a bolus with a meal of mashed potatoes would lower BG too, but is that what we want?
This is interesting for me because I am in the minority of T2 who are not IR. Perhaps adding whey into meals would actually help me out.
The current path I am on after changing doctors has all my readings trending down. When they level off, if they are not as low as I would like, I think I may add this to my list of potential n=1 experiments.
@cstehansen - there were some specifics as to how to best implement this, and I don't remember offhand all of the details. What I do remember is that you want to have the whey BEFORE you start eating the rest of the meal (I think it was 5-15 minutes - basically if you feel the increased hunger signal that comes with insulin without incoming glucose, eat)...and there was a certain amount of whey to certain amount of food. I haven't tested it specifically, but I know that when I made soul bread, which uses whey protein powder, and combined it with cream cheese I combined with cinnamon and stevia, it didn't keep me as full as long as maybe eggs and sausage would have for the same calories. But, if I combined it with a small amount of something else, it gave me a larger sustained energy...so just on a non-scientific and anecdotal side, it seems that it would work...as long as you don't have any issues with actually producing insulin...0 -
here is another link that explains the issue ( @KnitOrMiss ) :
https://www.121dietitian.com/never-eat-a-polar-bears-liver/
@ccrdragon - That's awesome. I already knew most of that info, but the over-storage issue was one I didn't know. Thanks for the share!1 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/82/1/69.full
Conclusions:It can be concluded that the addition of whey to meals with rapidly digested and absorbed carbohydrates stimulates insulin release and reduces postprandial blood glucose excursion after a lunch meal consisting of mashed potatoes and meatballs in type 2 diabetic subjects.
I don't "get" studies like this. Maybe I'm thinking in circles. So whey increases insulin release which lowers BG in T2Ds but aren't those who are IR trying to avoid excess insulin because we are trying to improve our sensitivity?
I mean, injecting a bolus with a meal of mashed potatoes would lower BG too, but is that what we want?
This is interesting for me because I am in the minority of T2 who are not IR. Perhaps adding whey into meals would actually help me out.
The current path I am on after changing doctors has all my readings trending down. When they level off, if they are not as low as I would like, I think I may add this to my list of potential n=1 experiments.
@cstehansen - there were some specifics as to how to best implement this, and I don't remember offhand all of the details. What I do remember is that you want to have the whey BEFORE you start eating the rest of the meal (I think it was 5-15 minutes - basically if you feel the increased hunger signal that comes with insulin without incoming glucose, eat)...and there was a certain amount of whey to certain amount of food. I haven't tested it specifically, but I know that when I made soul bread, which uses whey protein powder, and combined it with cream cheese I combined with cinnamon and stevia, it didn't keep me as full as long as maybe eggs and sausage would have for the same calories. But, if I combined it with a small amount of something else, it gave me a larger sustained energy...so just on a non-scientific and anecdotal side, it seems that it would work...as long as you don't have any issues with actually producing insulin...
Thanks. With every day that passes, I am more and more hopeful I won't have to do any more n=1 experiments. You can see from the trend lines that all my readings are trending down pretty well and fairly consistently. It is amazing what getting the right doctor so I could get to the actual causes of my high BG was so I could correctly address them. This chart shows from the day after my appointment through part of today.
BTW, is not eating polar bear or sea lion liver really an issue for you? Where would you even find that in Oklahoma? 2 -
cstehansen wrote: »BTW, is not eating polar bear or sea lion liver really an issue for you? Where would you even find that in Oklahoma?
Honestly, @cstehansen, since I consume liver (brauschweiger) quite often now, the concern was why that particular type of liver, or whether it was liver in general and folks were just glossing over the classification. I'd been focusing on supporting my liver function, particularly since I don't have a gallbladder to be it's partner in crime, and to improve my digestive function in general. It very much seems to be working on some levels, as I've had fats and carbs today, and I forgot to take my enzymes with two meals now due to timing, and I haven't had any digestive discomforts... I can't do it all the time, as it still wears me down, but it's nice knowing in a crisis I won't end up straight in misery.
Besides, with packaging and labels these days, who knows - maybe a fortified liver product, particularly a puree, might have portions of sea lion liver in it to boost the amount of Vitamin A?!1 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »canadjineh wrote: »Seal/polar bear/sea lion liver vit A toxicity. www.ncbi.nlm.nhi.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1257872/
This link is broken. Why is that liver in particular about Vitamin A toxicity? I know A is a concern, but when balanced with D3/K2 and E's, it prevents toxicity in reasonable doses... @canadjineh
Sorry I was actually just type copying it off of the site while on my tablet. Here's the link that should work as I am copy/pasting on my desktop:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1257872/
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cstehansen wrote: »http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/82/1/69.full
Conclusions:It can be concluded that the addition of whey to meals with rapidly digested and absorbed carbohydrates stimulates insulin release and reduces postprandial blood glucose excursion after a lunch meal consisting of mashed potatoes and meatballs in type 2 diabetic subjects.
I don't "get" studies like this. Maybe I'm thinking in circles. So whey increases insulin release which lowers BG in T2Ds but aren't those who are IR trying to avoid excess insulin because we are trying to improve our sensitivity?
I mean, injecting a bolus with a meal of mashed potatoes would lower BG too, but is that what we want?
This is interesting for me because I am in the minority of T2 who are not IR. Perhaps adding whey into meals would actually help me out.
The current path I am on after changing doctors has all my readings trending down. When they level off, if they are not as low as I would like, I think I may add this to my list of potential n=1 experiments.
Very good point. Your position is pretty unique... It works be an interesting experiment.1 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I was just reading more about how whey is insulinogenic. I'll see if I can find what I was reading in my history.
I'd love to know what you think on it.
I found the details hard to understand because I don't know anything about the specific actions of the amino acids it's referencing. I think this part seems to explain that the insulin stimulation is caused by the specific cocktail of amino acids that are present with whey. It specifically notes the insulin response isn't from glucose but these amino acids.
This part is actually referencing the rise of each amino acid in humans.
So, it does make sense that lower blood sugar could be the end result though I don't think that was ever measured as part of this study.
It still makes me feel like stimulating insulin may not be a good thing long term though. I mean there is still the concern of B cell burnout or developing IR.... I don't know. Just thoughts.
It did seem that it was a short lived action though. Measurements were highest at 15 and 30 minutes and dropped off at 45 minutes.
Perhaps it would be useful right before a muscle building workout???
That could make sense.0
This discussion has been closed.