Bulking
LolaDeeDaisy23
Posts: 383 Member
Exactly what the title states. Anyone ever tried bulking on keto? I've tried to research this but it seems like no one has tried it or they tried cyclical keto or targeted keto.
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I started with strict keto, and honestly, my gains in both strength and size sucked. I was getting fat pretty rapidly and little else. Switched to CKD, and even though I was still getting fat too fast, my strength was at least going up.
My individual opinion? Keto bulking is garbage. It's amazing for cutting, but horribly gimped for building. The hormones just aren't there for me. Some do pretty well with it. I do not appear to be one of those people. I'm getting far better results with a 40/30/30 p/f/c split. Requires more calories (3600 vs 2800), but my gain has been more gradual, strength is better, and I've put on less fat in three months than in two with keto.0 -
Would you say keto is a great tool for maintenance or cutting but not great for bulking? Will you return to keto after you're done bulking? I'm scared to transition back into eating carbs bc of the instant weight gain and cravings. My lifts suffered in the beginning but I feel like my strength is progressing even with strict keto. I just don't want to waste my time trying to bulk with keto when I can get better results with a traditional approach.0
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I use a psmf protocol for cutting. It does produce nutritional ketosis, but it's basically "keto dieting" with almost no fat; just trace in meats and fish oil caps for EFAs.
That said, yes, keto works great for maintaining and cutting. I just prefer to get cuts over with fast, so I can get back to real training.0 -
@LolaDeeDaisy23 Have you looked into KetoGains? It's on Reddit, I believe. Darth Luiggi is the name of the main guy who is reputed to have done all his bulking and muscle gain, etc., while fully on keto.
@baconslave - please correct me if I'm wrong here.2 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »@LolaDeeDaisy23 Have you looked into KetoGains? It's on Reddit, I believe. Darth Luiggi is the name of the main guy who is reputed to have done all his bulking and muscle gain, etc., while fully on keto.
@baconslave - please correct me if I'm wrong here.
As far as I know it's right on target.
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Yes. Take a look at Ketogains. They're on Facebook too. Luis Villasenor is the one mentioned as bulking on keto.0
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@LolaDeeDaisy23 where are your lifts at, and what are your bulk goals?0
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Agreed with Gallowmere1984. Insulin stimulation/secretion (more) is necessary for gaining size
IF is also futile for bulking0 -
You can definitely gain muscle on a keto diet while losing weight.
I do not see why someone could not gain weight consuming more calories on a keto diet. Just eat more.0 -
You can definitely gain muscle on a keto diet while losing weight.
I do not see why someone could not gain weight consuming more calories on a keto diet. Just eat more.
Ha! It's not working that way for Jason Wittrock so far.
I'm not really saying you can't of course. His experience so far is just blowing my mind!!2 -
@pdxhak My goal isn't just to gain weight, but to build muscle. I want to step on stage and compete in my first bikini competition. That's one of the items on my bucket list lol
I am eating a ton more food and have been less active (used to work retail, 7k-10k steps 5 days/ week vs now 3k-5k steps and lifting heavy 2x-3x/ week) and I haven't gained any weight. Specifically, I was eating about 1800 calories then, and now I'm eating upwards of 2400 calories.
@Sunny_Bunny_ I know, Jason's journey is incredible.
@kirkor I was thinking about gaining 5-10lbs..or bulking until I was sick of looking at myself lol but I've never bulked before, and I'm not sure if I'm doing it right since I'm not gaining any weight? I just started getting back into lifting, as of now I can deadlift/squat 80lbs, 3 sets of 10. Every week my lifts have steadily progressed.1 -
LolaDeeDaisy23 wrote: »@pdxhak My goal isn't just to gain weight, but to build muscle. I want to step on stage and compete in my first bikini competition. That's one of the items on my bucket list lol
I am eating a ton more food and have been less active (used to work retail, 7k-10k steps 5 days/ week vs now 3k-5k steps and lifting heavy 2x-3x/ week) and I haven't gained any weight. Specifically, I was eating about 1800 calories then, and now I'm eating upwards of 2400 calories.
@Sunny_Bunny_ I know, Jason's journey is incredible.
@kirkor I was thinking about gaining 5-10lbs..or bulking until I was sick of looking at myself lol but I've never bulked before, and I'm not sure if I'm doing it right since I'm not gaining any weight? I just started getting back into lifting, as of now I can deadlift/squat 80lbs, 3 sets of 10. Every week my lifts have steadily progressed.
If you just got back in, wait a few weeks. Let your CNS catch up to the muscle you already have. In the earliest stages, you're not going to be moving enough volume to actually overload your existing tissue.
Right now, you'll be building a buttload of "brain strength", and far less "muscle strength".4 -
@LolaDeeDaisy23 - I follow a ketoish diet. Low carbs but higher in protein than the typical keto diet due to the amount of strength training I do. You can add muscle! Good luck with your prep!1
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »You can definitely gain muscle on a keto diet while losing weight.
I do not see why someone could not gain weight consuming more calories on a keto diet. Just eat more.
Ha! It's not working that way for Jason Wittrock so far.
I'm not really saying you can't of course. His experience so far is just blowing my mind!!
I am following his 4k calories videos as well Maybe he should increase his calories to 4.5k-5k ? 3 -
@Gallowmere1984 Sorry but what is CNS? And when you were trying to bulk with strict keto, how can you tell if you were getting fat vs building muscle?
I'm also planning on taking creatine but I've heard that causes another 5-10lbs in bloat. Is it wise to start the creatine now or wait a few weeks? How would I know I'm getting fat or if it's water weight from creatine lol sorry for bombarding everyone with the questions.0 -
Water weight from creatine does not cause the type of 'bloat' that I think you are thinking of.
I prolly won't explain this correctly, but hope that you will get the gist of my meaning:
Creatine actually increases the amount of water that the muscle tissue itself holds which makes the muscle (on the whole) appear larger. I think the 'bloat' that you are describing is sub-cutaneous water (i.e. not muscular water storage) which makes you look 'squishy' for want of a better description. Since the water in the muscles does have weight, it will cause some gain. The amount of gain will depend on the amount of muscle that you have and how your body responds to the creatine - some people have reported that creatine has no effect at all for them.1 -
LolaDeeDaisy23 wrote: »@Gallowmere1984 Sorry but what is CNS? And when you were trying to bulk with strict keto, how can you tell if you were getting fat vs building muscle?
I'm also planning on taking creatine but I've heard that causes another 5-10lbs in bloat. Is it wise to start the creatine now or wait a few weeks? How would I know I'm getting fat or if it's water weight from creatine lol sorry for bombarding everyone with the questions.
CNS=central nervous system. Basically, it's the early strength gains where your brain learns to properly fire the muscles you already have.
I track my bodyfat with calipers. They are usually off by a few percent when doing a measurement in isolation, but they are good for trend tracking. They were getting wider faster than they should have been. Plus, I was gaining 2.5 lbs. per week on 2800 kcals. Even the most juiced monster in the world can't build muscle that fast.1 -
Ok so I just wanted to update you guys on what's going on with my bulk:
I started at 131 pounds, eating about 1800 calories on avg.
Week 1: averaged 2220 calories
End of Week Weight: 131.7
Week 2: averaged 2500 calories
EOW Weight: 133.0
Week 3: averaged 2300 calories
EOW Weight: 132.4
Week 3 weight by day
136
133.4
133.5
135.8
135.8
134
132.4 (this morning)
Also, yesterday I ate wayyyy over calories, 3200 total, (damn you macadamia nuts!) and this morning I'm at my lowest weight.
Thoughts?
Strength is still progressing. Haven't started creatine supplement yet.0 -
I think this is sort of looking like Wittrock's overeating experiment too...
How are you feeling on it?1 -
@nvmomketo He inspired me to document it! I'm editing my video right now lol but I feel good! My strength hasn't stalled yet. I'm a bit worried I'm eating a little more than I should? My goal is to gain muscle.. and I feel like gaining a pound per week is a bit excessive. I want to gain .5 pound per week instead. Need to tweak my calories just a little bit. Maybe hover around 2300 for another week? Unlike Jason, I am gaining weight and i can easily eat 2500 calories without any problems lol
Planning to stick to this bulk for 2 months and see where it takes me.1 -
Are you averaging your weight or just using a weigh in day for each weeks weight?
I like happy scale or libra weight for averages. It's easier to see gains and losses that way.0 -
@Sunny_Bunny_ I'm just using a weigh in day of each End of Week weight. Maybe I should take the average to see if it's trending up or down??1
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Following this thread closely. I am deciding where to go after keto if/when i reach my bfp goals and want to bulk up again, hopefully without too much fat gain. My lifts are staying about the same, minimal if any gains month to month (though injuries aren't helping), definitely feeling smaller and weaker on keto, but I'm on calorie deficit so that can be expected.1
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LolaDeeDaisy23 wrote: »@Sunny_Bunny_ I'm just using a weigh in day of each End of Week weight. Maybe I should take the average to see if it's trending up or down??
You definitely should. Use an app for it that gives moving averages if possible. Either that or expect to do a fair amount of math.1 -
Ok guys so I bit the bullet and decided to play with targeted keto. Based on my research, the few carbs before workout gets used up and you go right back into ketosis.
This morning I had 30g of carbs 30 minutes prior and I assumed I might have a placebo effect but this can't be all mental?
My lifts jumped up dramatically. Still not supplementing creatine yet.
Squatting 80lbs 3 sets of 10 before, this morning I hit 110 lbs 3 sets of 8 easily.
On standard keto, my lifts would creep up by 2.5 lbs. It's been an hour after workout and I have no ill effects yet. Will keep you guys updated.1 -
It's not placebo. Just about everyone who has tried all ways see a performance jump in lifting with TKD/CKD over standard keto. Same with HIIT/sprinting. It's just reality for people who's bodies can properly utilize sugars.3
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Hey guys. Was debating whether I should start a new thread or continue this one...
I decided I want to compete in my first bodybuilding show! It's September 9th so I have quite a long prep on my hands.
Been cutting for almost two weeks and I've noticed that it's SO HARD to lose weight for some reason. I was gaining a half pound every week on 2600 calories and now I'm eating 1500 and I've only lost half a pound even tho I'm more active! Ugh so annoying.
Strength is slowly going up, I changed up my routine to a diff split: back, delts and tris, and legs, 5x per week. Cardio every day, 10-15min HIIT and 20 min moderate intensity on stairs.2 -
@LolaDeeDaisy23 how is your progress?0
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@Freischuetz Bulking wise, I did really well. Cutting... I hired a trainer to help me with my competition prep. He gave me my routine with lifting 5x per week and cardio every day. Needless to say my body was not responding to that. He lowered my calories, increased my cardio... I started GAINING weight. Was doing this for 4 more weeks until I let him go. Found a new coach. New coach says we need to up my calories to fix my metabolism from previous coach. I upped my calories stopped all cardio and I lost 4 pounds.
New coach has me on a 5 day split as well but way less volume.
More of a reverse pyramid training style. Feeling good so far!
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