Ketogenic experiment
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This last video that he posted (about his blood work results) was very encouraging for me. I just got my blood work results back last night too -so it was nice to compare my numbers to his. My Total Cholesterol number was actually just one number off from his, and my LDL was pretty similar too. I want to get that HS-CRP test done that he was talking about -I've never heard of that one before, but it sounds like it may be one of the best tests out there for an indicator of potential issues. I'm definitely going to do some research into that test.
I also just bought that Cholesterol Clarity book by Jimmy Moore, that Jason briefly touched on in the video. I'm looking forward to listening to it (I bought the Audible version).1 -
re: blood work, if your insurance rate depends on cholesterol results check this hack:
http://cholesterolcode.com/extreme-cholesterol-drop-experiment/0 -
I did share this thread and there is a discussion going about the digestibility of nuts. Apparently we only digest 75% or so of the available calories. If we ate 400 kcals of nuts we are only getting 300 kcals. With the massive amount of nuts he is eating, and Feltham (smash the fat) ate in his 5000 kcal challenge, people are wondering if that is the cause.
It's supposedly there in legumes and whole grains too.
Do you guys know anything about that? I'd never heard of that before today.
Too bad it isn't higher. I can so easily overeat nuts.
50% would have been nicer. 
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I did share this thread and there is a discussion going about the digestibility of nuts. Apparently we only digest 75% or so of the available calories. If we ate 400 kcals of nuts we are only getting 300 kcals. With the massive amount of nuts he is eating, and Feltham (smash the fat) ate in his 5000 kcal challenge, people are wondering if that is the cause.
It's supposedly there in legumes and whole grains too.
Do you guys know anything about that? I'd never heard of that before today.
Too bad it isn't higher. I can so easily overeat nuts. 50% would have been nicer.
Even if that's completely true, he's still eating more than he was before. Eating way beyond what he's hungry for so it's still very puzzling that he had that loss. It kind of makes me wonder what would happen to an average person eating more plainly like a carnivore diet.
I would love to do my own personal experiment like he is and actually wouldn't be bothered by any weight gain that might come if it but I'm probably not organized enough to do it so meticulously.
Maybe something to consider though. I would love to see it done by an average woman that doesn't exercise. I stopped lifting because I had to cancel my gym membership, hopefully only temporarily.
My TDEE is apparently around 1500-1550 ish and I don't have any food tracking history to know what I've been eating. Maybe I'll start logging again as I consider doing my own experiment.2 -
A couple years ago (2012, I think), I went through a phase lasting about 3 months where I only wanted to eat almonds and almond butter. I was just so stuck on almonds. My weekly habit was 5 pounds of roasted salted almonds and 2 jars of Maranatha almond butter. Doing some quick calorie math, that's 13,040 calories in roasted almonds (@163/oz for 80oz) and 4,180 for the two jars of butter (2,090/ 120z jar).
I would eat regular LC meals per se for nutritional needs, but smaller meals than usual since I wanted to get to my almonds- probably around 800-1,200 meal calories a day in meat and veg (vs 2,000). That would add up to 24,220 (assuming average 1,000 calories a day for meals), coming down to 3,460 calories a day.
I did not gain any weight and even lost a couple pounds over the months without any effort or other lifestyle changes to lose weight.
I will say that it was glaringly obvious every morning that the almonds were not highly digested. I was also very, very regular during that time due to all the fiber. For personal stats, I'm 5'5" and at the time I was probably ~125lb and went to the gym for cardio and weight training about 2x a week.
Mmmmmmm almonds.2 -
Looks like the fat/cholesterol police got him for Day 9. I didn't get to see it. Did anyone else?
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baconslave wrote: »Looks like the fat/cholesterol police got him for Day 9. I didn't get to see it. Did anyone else?
I watched the video. He basically went to the EAS offices whom he is sponsored with. He had a friend/employee/scientist there talk about the blood lipid panel results he got done which showed his overall cholesterol was high but his bad cholesterol was low and then also compared his HDL to his triglycerides and explained what that ratio means. Basically his heart is in really good shape and the scientist didn't see any potential adverse side effects from a sustained 4k calorie keto diet. He also measured his blood ketone levels and he's 0.4 higher than he was a few days ago.
He then talked about how EAS Myoplex is doing a giveaway for their keto meal replacement shakes.
Edit: Oh I see that the video was taken down. Sad because it was informative but I get where he is coming from he doesn't want people to base their own health based on numbers being a certain way and stuff like that.0 -
baconslave wrote: »Looks like the fat/cholesterol police got him for Day 9. I didn't get to see it. Did anyone else?
Glad you mentioned that. I watched it yesterday but didn't realize it was taken down until I went to youtube to see why you might have said "fat/cholesterol police". I can understand several reasons why it might be taken down only 1 of which his sponsor's products might be perceived as "cholesterol raising" based on the...short term 9 day results. 0 -
THEY MADE HIM DELETE THE *kitten* VIDEO. Ugh idk why this bothers me so much. Why?? There was so much good, valuable information in there. I don't understand why his sponsors felt "at risk"?0
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He (Jason Wittrock) said HE decided to take it down. Who knows what the reality is but he (Jason) never said "THEY" made him take it down. Jason Wittrock decided to delete day 9 so as to not put sponsors or employees at risk.LolaDeeDaisy23 wrote: »THEY MADE HIM DELETE THE *kitten* VIDEO. Ugh idk why this bothers me so much. Why?? There was so much good, valuable information in there. I don't understand why his sponsors felt "at risk"?
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Oh man. That's a shame they made him remove it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkya7FKK5-M
I think his total cholesterol was about 226, HDL was 79, and I think triglycerides were 86. I can't remember what LDL was - I tend to ignore LDL so it didn't register.
HS-crp was <0.2 A great number.
Overall it was pretty good.1 -
A couple years ago (2012, I think), I went through a phase lasting about 3 months where I only wanted to eat almonds and almond butter. I was just so stuck on almonds. My weekly habit was 5 pounds of roasted salted almonds and 2 jars of Maranatha almond butter. Doing some quick calorie math, that's 13,040 calories in roasted almonds (@163/oz for 80oz) and 4,180 for the two jars of butter (2,090/ 120z jar).
I would eat regular LC meals per se for nutritional needs, but smaller meals than usual since I wanted to get to my almonds- probably around 800-1,200 meal calories a day in meat and veg (vs 2,000). That would add up to 24,220 (assuming average 1,000 calories a day for meals), coming down to 3,460 calories a day.
I did not gain any weight and even lost a couple pounds over the months without any effort or other lifestyle changes to lose weight.
I will say that it was glaringly obvious every morning that the almonds were not highly digested. I was also very, very regular during that time due to all the fiber. For personal stats, I'm 5'5" and at the time I was probably ~125lb and went to the gym for cardio and weight training about 2x a week.
Mmmmmmm almonds.
Wow. That's really sort of neat.
Yanno, I am feeling better and better about my tendency to eat a few hundred calories in nuts every day.
It feels like a better and better choice. LOL 0 -
He (Jason Wittrock) said HE decided to take it down. Who knows what the reality is but he (Jason) never said "THEY" made him take it down. Jason Wittrock decided to delete day 9 so as to not put sponsors or employees at risk.LolaDeeDaisy23 wrote: »THEY MADE HIM DELETE THE *kitten* VIDEO. Ugh idk why this bothers me so much. Why?? There was so much good, valuable information in there. I don't understand why his sponsors felt "at risk"?
Being the skeptic/cynic I am, I'd say there probably was some pressure.
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Yeah. My guess is he was told to do it. Or the people who controlled his money strongly recommended it be removed.
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I did share this thread and there is a discussion going about the digestibility of nuts. Apparently we only digest 75% or so of the available calories. If we ate 400 kcals of nuts we are only getting 300 kcals. With the massive amount of nuts he is eating, and Feltham (smash the fat) ate in his 5000 kcal challenge, people are wondering if that is the cause.
It's supposedly there in legumes and whole grains too.
Do you guys know anything about that? I'd never heard of that before today.
Too bad it isn't higher. I can so easily overeat nuts. 50% would have been nicer.
Even if that's completely true, he's still eating more than he was before. Eating way beyond what he's hungry for so it's still very puzzling that he had that loss. It kind of makes me wonder what would happen to an average person eating more plainly like a carnivore diet.
I would love to do my own personal experiment like he is and actually wouldn't be bothered by any weight gain that might come if it but I'm probably not organized enough to do it so meticulously.
Maybe something to consider though. I would love to see it done by an average woman that doesn't exercise. I stopped lifting because I had to cancel my gym membership, hopefully only temporarily.
My TDEE is apparently around 1500-1550 ish and I don't have any food tracking history to know what I've been eating. Maybe I'll start logging again as I consider doing my own experiment.
I'd watch that!
For me, my challenge would be a ketogenic diet but at various calorie levels. The coorelation between caloric intake and weight loss is not linear for me. I seem to hit some level low enough where I start losing fast. Conversely, I seem to flip a switch from maintaining to gaining that feels like a difference of a hundred calories or so... And then those numbers move, dammit.
Right now I am eating about the same as I was when I was losing, and I am maintaining. I'm thankful that I stopped gaining (regaining) but sheesh. I eat one meal a day and a 1/4 c of nuts and I can't lose right now.
I have a back injury, a cold and flu in the last couple of months, and my thyroid went kaput to the point where I take more than a normal replacement dose of thyroid meds so that will all affect my metabolism and weight but geez...
So various calorie challenges would be my interest. I would never have the will power to eat exactly the same every day though, so I won't ever do that.... I need a clone I can subject to my dietary experiments! Then I'll do what actually works!1 -
I think it makes sense for him to take it down out of fear that people would take it as medical advice. There are stupid people out there that could easily not have understood the information correctly and might have taken away, "My cholesterol is high but I am healthy because Jason Wittrock's cholesterol is high and he is healthy" when in fact he was trying to explain the balance of HDL and LDL. Some people won't comprehend what he's saying, might mix up HDL and LDL, etc. So whether it was his decision or his sponsors (which I do think someone else brought up the issue after seeing the video that influenced his decision) I think it was "the right thing to do".1
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Oh man. That's a shame they made him remove it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkya7FKK5-M
I think his total cholesterol was about 226, HDL was 79, and I think triglycerides were 86. I can't remember what LDL was - I tend to ignore LDL so it didn't register.
HS-crp was <0.2 A great number.
Overall it was pretty good.
I took a screenshot when the numbers came on the screen. His exact numbers were:
Total: 266
LDL: 175
HDL: 74
Triglycerides: 86
Ratio: 3.6
HS-CRP: <0.26 -
I posted on a different thread about bulking on keto. I've tried to research it. It just seems most people bash it, or end up doing cyclical keto or targeted keto. Ive been eating about 2300 calories these past 7 days. My maintenance calories is around 1650. Weighed myself this morning and I haven't gained or lost any weight. Maybe it's too early to tell.
I guess I'm kind of experimenting on myself whether or not it's possible to bulk on keto without gaining a bunch of extra fat. My strength is steadily increasing and I'm not hitting a wall (yet). I'm thinking about documenting my experience on YouTube (inspired by Jason) lol we'll see.1 -
motorcyclekopp wrote: »Oh man. That's a shame they made him remove it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkya7FKK5-M
I think his total cholesterol was about 226, HDL was 79, and I think triglycerides were 86. I can't remember what LDL was - I tend to ignore LDL so it didn't register.
HS-crp was <0.2 A great number.
Overall it was pretty good.
I took a screenshot when the numbers came on the screen. His exact numbers were:
Total: 266
LDL: 175
HDL: 74
Triglycerides: 86
Ratio: 3.6
HS-CRP: <0.2
Darn. My memory is not as good as I thought. Thanks. 1 -
LolaDeeDaisy23 wrote: »I posted on a different thread about bulking on keto. I've tried to research it. It just seems most people bash it, or end up doing cyclical keto or targeted keto. Ive been eating about 2300 calories these past 7 days. My maintenance calories is around 1650. Weighed myself this morning and I haven't gained or lost any weight. Maybe it's too early to tell.
I guess I'm kind of experimenting on myself whether or not it's possible to bulk on keto without gaining a bunch of extra fat. My strength is steadily increasing and I'm not hitting a wall (yet). I'm thinking about documenting my experience on YouTube (inspired by Jason) lol we'll see.
The lack of insulin seems to slow a bulk down. Some like me, who need to lower insulin, kind of get stuck.2 -
baconslave wrote: »He (Jason Wittrock) said HE decided to take it down. Who knows what the reality is but he (Jason) never said "THEY" made him take it down. Jason Wittrock decided to delete day 9 so as to not put sponsors or employees at risk.LolaDeeDaisy23 wrote: »THEY MADE HIM DELETE THE *kitten* VIDEO. Ugh idk why this bothers me so much. Why?? There was so much good, valuable information in there. I don't understand why his sponsors felt "at risk"?
Being the skeptic/cynic I am, I'd say there probably was some pressure.
I don't think he did his sponsor much of a favor today making all those faces while choking down his 2000 calorie shake. Sure it might have been the added fat but we all know who makes the shake base.
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LOL That was hillarious to watch! He really is overeating wrong. Buy some pepperoni sticks and cheese, man!
I was impressed with his macros today. 90+% fat/ 414 g of fat I think it was. And I think protein was only 45g. That seems low for someone of his build, but I suppos a day or so doesn't matter.2 -
This is too hilarious, day 15 and he is still down 1.2 lbs from baseline. Defying physics and demonstrating that keto plateau quite well. Would be interested in knowing how his body composition has changed so far since weight can be misleading.
This is a totally relatable mishap for people on keto long term...intending to gain using conventional methods but having the opposite or no significant result. Could be possible if he hasn't been refereeing like he usually does though.1 -
Yea pretty crazy, I'm curious how his body fat % will/won't change at the end, or if coming off the calories has any effect after he's done.
I wish we new his total expenditure each day, I imagine as a body builder he's killing it at the gym. Still hard to use up 4k calories.
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I can speak from experience that gaining on ultra-low carb (< 5g/day) is nearly impossible. Eating strict carnivore, without dairy, I can consume 3000-4000 calories a day and my scale will be rock-solid or even slightly trend down. It doesn't shock me that he's losing some weight, especially if he's working out. You can gain, it's just going to be very slow compared to what the calories suggest.
I'll have to watch these later. Interested in the correlation between his protein intake and blood ketones. I know my blood ketones were not nearly as sensitive to protein as many people here suggest. I wonder if he's have the same experience.3 -
He went down to 145 something and now he is back up to 147.2 (?) from a start of about 148.2. I think.
Yeah, I'm not too surprised that he isn't gaining at the 1 lb per 3500 excess calorie model that CI<CO would suggest. It's my experience too that low carb makes it harder to gain weight. I am guessing his low carb is higher than mine because he is much more metabolically healthy.
His blood ketones are a good level as far as I know. In the high 2's to mid 3's. His protein is often in the low to mid 100's, so it looks like his protein does not affect ketones much.
... Of course on a 4K diet, 150 g of protein is something like 13% or so. LOL
I've never actually experimented with urine ketone levels and protein levels. I tend to keep my protein moderate (~20%) just because it is insulinogenic. As someone with IR, I don't need my insulin levels going any higher. 2 -
Late to the party here. . .
I just watched day 2, and chuckled at the "Pee Test" results. He used four different brands of ketone strips, and got widely varied results.
Hopefully that will deter his viewers from relying on results of the home urine test.
It's just too bad the blood ketone strips are so expensive!2 -
Day number 20 and he lost 0.2% body fat since he started this experiment on day 1. Freaking amazing.2
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Yes, it is amazing. Loving Jason's video's.0
