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Cholesterol Levels going sky high need ammunition against statin use for doc

MissMaggieElizabeth
MissMaggieElizabeth Posts: 71 Member
edited November 20 in Social Groups
Ok Here we go and I know this has probably been discussed over and over but I am hoping for some exact answers to my numbers.

I have all of them from the last four years. I have lost 90 pounds down to weight of 140, height 5'5", waist is 28 only because I see that question asked in references to this calculation. I do have some tummy but it is just sagging skin hanging there and what to do about that at my age? I am extremely active.

I did an online calculator for Direct Chloresterol ,HDL, Triglycerides and Total Chloresterol . Calculator results are copied.
Triglycerides Ratio Calculator

Total Cholesterol
319
mg/dL
HDL (High density lipoprotein)
83
mg/dL
LDL (Low density lipoprotein)
211
mg/dL
Triglycerides
112
mg/dL
Calculate Clear

Your Total Cholesterol of 319 is HIGH RISK
Your LDL of 211 is VERY HIGH RISK
Your HDL of 83 is OPTIMAL
Your Triglyceride level of 112 is NORMAL

RATIOS:

Your Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio is: 3.84 - (preferably under 5.0, ideally under 3.5) GOOD
Your LDL/HDL ratio is: 2.542 - (preferably under 5.0, ideally under 2.0) GOOD
Your triglycerides/HDL ratio is: 1.349 - (preferably under 4, ideally under 2) IDEAL

SO I go back to the doc in September when this last blood test was done I had gained back 10 pounds. I thought oh goody I lost the 90 I can eat a few veggies. NOT So three spears of asparagus and 5 mushrooms some times twice a day when available and a tomato once in awhile got me 10 pounds. Insane but you all know this happens. since May 31 I have lost the 10 pounds just by dropping the small amount of veggies.

Generally my days meals are 150 GM burger 1 OZ cheese two times a day. OR 4 eggs 1oz cheese once a day with the burger second meal or two chicken thighs twice a day. or any combination of the above. Nothing else but a little almond milk in my coffee and it is the unsweetened less than one carb per cup. I use a table spoon . Certainly less than one cup per day over all.

Doc leaves a little notes online after he reads the blood tests and still recommends statins. I keep telling him no way.

I know eating all meat is good and I have no intention to ever stop I feel wonderful, painting the whole outside of my house by myself now kind of energy. How to I calm the doc on the statin kick. He is a bit of a pill pusher. He is a great guy and I do not want to change doctors I could get some one worse.

I have more results. if needed. Thank you for ideas.


Replies

  • Unknown
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  • retirehappy
    retirehappy Posts: 3,519 Member
    CHOL and LDLs can go high temporarily, after a big weight loss, 90 lbs. is big, and you regained 10 and lost it. You probably have tons of released LDL in your blood system that had been released by your dieting.

    Only your totals of those are bad, as tsazani pointed out your tri/hdl is ideal, well done.

    Tell him you want to wait and see how you are doing in 4-6 months time. Then learn all you can about the Feldman Protocol these two podcast go into it deeply:

    Hacking Cholesterol with Dave Feldman
    http://2ketodudes.com/show.aspx?episode=38
    Cholesterol Code Update with Dave Feldman
    http://2ketodudes.com/show.aspx?episode=63

    You can also tell him you just don't want the side effects of statins. They are not any fun at all.
  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
    edited July 2017
    tsazani wrote: »
    Full disclosure. I'm a doctor. I too think you should take a statin. Here's your weapon. Good luck with it <grin>.

    Your triglycerides/HDL ratio is: 1.349 - (preferably under 4, ideally under 2) IDEAL

    When a patient is actively loosing weight triglycerides and cholesterol levels can go a bit haywire.

    Your "ace in the hole" is your incredibly high HDL levels.

    If you gave me this argument as a patient, I'd chart that I offered you a statin and that you refused. I'd need to "cover my butt" for malpractice circumstances but I'd feel comfortable with your decision. I'd run blood tests and see you every 6 months. I'd also nag you to at least TRY a statin.

    Would you order an advanced lipoprotein particle test?

    PS How did you come upon Bupropion? Something for every carb-addicted diabetic?

    Thx!
  • RAC56
    RAC56 Posts: 432 Member
    @MissMaggieElizabeth if you don't mind me asking…how old are you? So glad to see you here posting with us. I'm 60 and face some of the same issues. You'll get good info here. {{hugs}}
  • retirehappy
    retirehappy Posts: 3,519 Member
    MissMaggieElizabeth wrote: »
    Thank you so much for your answers here. The test was about one year after I lost the 90 but gained back the 10. Now I am down the 10 again with no troubles doing so just stopped the veggies. Thinking maybe a year is not totally long enough for my body to clear the bad boys. Triglycerides started at 417 s lets say I have come a long way baby. HDL start was 36 at start. It is just the cholesterol that keeps going up. Darn it.

    I totally understand his need to offer statins as a doctor and his training and to him admittedly he has no training in nutrition and he told me about 9 months ago when I was tested he was amazed I was able to lose the weight with no monitoring or weight loss surgery. He said he has never seen it done before. He is a youngster though. I do not know if it matters I had no idea he was going to do the blood tests that day so I was non fasting. I only went for the horrible arthritis pain I was having in my hands. HA Yes more pills. But only taking as few as possible to keep the pain to a dull roar. I really thought this way of eating was good for aching joints.

    I have asked more then once for him to do the particle size test and he said since I refuse statins what would be the point? Well I do not agree with that but can not force him to do it. I even said I might consider the statins if the particle test warranted it. Then I read up on if this really mattered and so many mixed thoughts on this from reading what others say. sigh. Such a tangled web.

    If I were to just go on how I feel I am amazing. I have been through a terrible loss of my husband to cancer and all that entails. A brutal winter working in the bitter cold and snow trying to save my house and garage by myself and I did so where others were not so successful. Area was declared a disaster area from the snow and ice. Just a lot going on and I keep coming out smelling like a rose and doing amazing things. So my health has to be good??

    I will go to the links a little later it is heating up outside and I really want to finish painting the front porch today and get it put back together. Been working on it a week.

    You sound pretty amazing to me. Sorry for the loss of your husband. You still had the strength to save your home and now you are even sprucing it up. Totally awesome.
  • MissMaggieElizabeth
    MissMaggieElizabeth Posts: 71 Member
    edited July 2017


    You sound pretty amazing to me. Sorry for the loss of your husband. You still had the strength to save your home and now you are even sprucing it up. Totally awesome.
    [/quote]

    Retirehappy Thank you on condolences I am doing ok. And thank you but not really that awesome just determined. But not bad for an old fart. And yes I know my profile says I am 50 but who gives their real age on the internet?? I put down the year I graduated from highschool as my birth year because it really was when I was free to be me and away on my own finally. LOL

    I am gasping it is 100 degrees in the shade now. I need to mow the lawn which is NOT in the shade and I just think I need to wait until the sun goes down for that. So play time for me after I clean all the mess I made up. PORCH IS DONE!!! WHOOT I forget when I started but only took one day off from it. I think a week. It is only 28 by 8 but I had to do the ceiling too. And move stuff then paint and more more stuff then paint. And work around the sumer heat. The house was yellow and I am going white body black trim and Haint blue for the porch ceiling. Pictures here and if you scroll far enough there are also snow photos and YES skinny me in a bathing suit in the snow at 20 degrees and blasting snow storm.Laughing so hard I did this. My Florida buddies were begging me to just walk away from Snowmegadden , come to them, and let my insurance cover it. It is not in my nature to give up. And honestly the snow cold and hard work does not bother me.

    https://flickr.com/photos/50185661@N03/?

  • MissMaggieElizabeth
    MissMaggieElizabeth Posts: 71 Member
    RAC56 wrote: »
    @MissMaggieElizabeth if you don't mind me asking…how old are you? So glad to see you here posting with us. I'm 60 and face some of the same issues. You'll get good info here. {{hugs}}

    Rac I put in my profile the year I graduated from high school as my birth year because I left home the very next day and never went back. It was not a good place to be. I feel it was then I was finally born to be me.So I am actually 68 now. Well I will be in a few weeks.

    Thanks for the hugs and right back at you. I am doing well. Really. I think feeling good and eating right and trying to get the sleep I need really help.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    Your porch is beautiful! I love your mosaics too. You have a lot of artistic talent!!

    As to the statins, for women, and especially women who are moving past middle age, statins are not often helpful. In fact, we do better with slightly elevated cholesterol. I'm not an expert or medical practitioner though. Just someone who helped a loved one figure out what was causing her muscle aches, weakness and memory loss - doctor put her on a statin, without telling her, because she is an obese senior even though she has perfect cholesterol, insulin and blood glucose. Grr.

    http://www.whp-apsf.ca/pdf/statinsEvidenceCaution.pdf

    http://sciencenordic.com/many-women-needlessly-take-cholesterol-lowering-drugs

    If you like books, Cholesterol Clarity, Cholesterol Con, and the Great Cholesterol Myth are all very good books on the topic.
  • MissMaggieElizabeth
    MissMaggieElizabeth Posts: 71 Member
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    Your porch is beautiful! I love your mosaics too. You have a lot of artistic talent!!

    As to the statins, for women, and especially women who are moving past middle age, statins are not often helpful. In fact, we do better with slightly elevated cholesterol. I'm not an expert or medical practitioner though. Just someone who helped a loved one figure out what was causing her muscle aches, weakness and memory loss - doctor put her on a statin, without telling her, because she is an obese senior even though she has perfect cholesterol, insulin and blood glucose. Grr.

    http://www.whp-apsf.ca/pdf/statinsEvidenceCaution.pdf

    http://sciencenordic.com/many-women-needlessly-take-cholesterol-lowering-drugs

    If you like books, Cholesterol Clarity, Cholesterol Con, and the Great Cholesterol Myth are all very good books on the topic.

    Thank you nvmomketo, I will see if I can find those books I do like to read when I get time. I might even have one of them. I need to go look. The last couple of years has left me a bit fuzzy brained myself just trying to keep it all going. That is horrible your doc put your wife on statins causing her more issues. And my doc also put my friend on them and she was already having issues exactly as you describe before she started taking them. But she listens to him and no will power to change her eating. She is back to one cup of oatmeal for breakfast. No butter on her toast or muffin and I want to just gag. Or a fruit smoothie. Breaks my heart but I can not preach to her. She has seen my results. She said she is afraid of having a stroke and if my #'s were as good as hers except for her HDL is very low I would be jumping for joy.
  • MissMaggieElizabeth
    MissMaggieElizabeth Posts: 71 Member
    Well I see VLDL is also an important number. Mine started out as unable to calculate because triglycerides were over 400. :'( This was 2014 my first blood test by this DR and before that I had no insurance so did not go to a doctor for about 15 years ever. So starting 2014 unable to read down to 22.4.

    And Nvmomketo. I was looking to see if I had any of the book and have one Cholesterol Conspiracy: Heart Health with out Drugs. I looked for the others and there re several books with the same names different authors.

    Already reading what I have I am freaking out for my dear friend just started statins last week. She is not a reader and I do not know how to get through to her. She shuts down when I try to talk about it. She will be 70 next month. GAWD how did we get so old so fast??
  • RAC56
    RAC56 Posts: 432 Member
    Thank you for sharing the pics….I love your house! And right now in the midst of a very hot July, I love all that snow, lol.
  • MissMaggieElizabeth
    MissMaggieElizabeth Posts: 71 Member
    RAC56 wrote: »
    Thank you for sharing the pics….I love your house! And right now in the midst of a very hot July, I love all that snow, lol.

    For sure Rac. I would be laying in that snow if it were still here on a day like today. Was 107 at tops. Down to 104 now and shortly I need to get that mowing done. I just had my dinner. EEEKK A little late for my normal time Was on the phone to friend.

    Thank you on the house I am having fun with it here. I want fun pretty and unexpected spaces around me. I love to create little rooms within my garden. I have a small half acre because some of it is straight up a hill so I have a little to play with but do not want to be a slave to my yard either. I want to sit out in it and enjoy it.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    I haven't actually read Cholesterol Conspiracy: Heart Health with out Drugs yet. I'll have to look that one up. Thanks.

    It was actually my mother who was put on statins. Her HDL and triglycerides aren't quite as good as yours but they are very good considering she is overweight and has been for some time.

    I just hate that they didn't tell her. She worried about statins and she was led to believe that tyhis drug was to address slightly high BP and lower her heart disease risk. I kept asking if it was a statin and she would say no. After 6 months on it she had constant muscle pain and was noticing a decline in her mental clarity. That really scared her as she has some slightly older friends who are suffering with dementia now. We finally figured out it was the statins and dropped them. It took her 3 months to recover... her cholesterol did not change.

    And they STILL push statins at her because she is high risk - age and weight I guess. It drives me nuts that we know that statins don't help the vast majority of women, but doctors keep pushing it! It's hard to say no after years - a lifetime - of trusting doctors to work for your best interests when that drug is clearly a negative thing. Just not right.


    Funnily enough, my triglycerides tend to be low. I keep hoping they'll go up to a healthier level. :)
  • KarlaYP
    KarlaYP Posts: 4,436 Member
    Imo, your ldl, hdl, and trigs are spot on. Drs. have to recommend statins to cover their kittens! They are hit with penalties when they don't recommend them.

    My mother, and father, suffered with the muscle pain side effects from them that only went away after stopping the statins. My father also saw blood sugar readings that were impossible to control while taking them. After stopping the statin his blood sugars have been within normal limits.

    Personally, I wouldn't ever take them. The side effects aren't worth the risk. But the choice is yours.
  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
    Well, there are all sorts of differences between personal circumstances - levels of risk, tolerance, age, etc.

    Had I scored a 0 on my CAC test and not already had diabetes, I might feel differently, but I couldn't say "never" for someone in my situation, so I take Crestor (which, unlike Lipitor, gives me no cramps at all).
  • Aquawave
    Aquawave Posts: 260 Member
    Stains are not for everybody. That being said, you need to have a heart calcium scan to see if you already have calcified arteries. Insurance does not pay for this, but Groupons are available online for about $50.00. Usual price is about $150. An NMR advanced Lipid test can be had online too, if your doctor refused to do it. At Lab Core, private pay is $119. I would strongly insist that your doctor order it. Do not ask, tell him to schedule the NMR and say you might take statins after you see the results. Remember, he works for you, not the other way around.

    At 61 years, My Calcium score was horrific (over 1200). I am between Scylla (statin side effect) and Charybdis (Cardio Vascular Event), so I am taking Statins along with CoQ10 to prevent side effects as there is more chance of a heart attack or stroke. Hardening of the arteries runs rampant in my family. They all died of strokes and heart attacks.

    I was eating the MAD diet up until a year ago and took statins for 27 years up until a year ago, with perfect standard lipid profiles. My calcification took many years to build up. If I had had the NMR, showing small LDL particle counts, the results would have made me go low carb years ago, as this LCHF diet changes the LDL for the good.
  • retirehappy
    retirehappy Posts: 3,519 Member
    MissMaggieElizabeth wrote: »

    Rac I put in my profile the year I graduated from high school as my birth year because I left home the very next day and never went back. It was not a good place to be. I feel it was then I was finally born to be me.So I am actually 68 now. Well I will be in a few weeks.

    sniped

    I will send you a friend request we have a LOT in common, I turned 68 this week, and I did the same as you after graduating high school. Never looked back either.
  • MissMaggieElizabeth
    MissMaggieElizabeth Posts: 71 Member
    edited July 2017
    Karlottap you are looking amazing. Been awhile since I have been here. Thanks for the information. Doc told me I was possibly pre diabetic before I started losing the weight and it runs in my family. Half siblings all have it and their father did too and my birth father also had it. But none of them eat right. Way too much total junk food. All boxed canned nothing home cooked and way too much of it. It was a real wake up call to me when my little brother lost a toe or two and walks with a cane. He is 5 years younger than I am. Looks 20 years older poor guy.

    RalfLott If it is working for you then that is great. Still reading the links posted to me and enjoying them. A little bit of scary stuff. Much of it has me shaking my head. There is way more about statins that I ever knew about. I am surprised any one is taking them. Sheeple I guess and they believe their doctors.

    Thanks Every one.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    RalfLott wrote: »
    Well, there are all sorts of differences between personal circumstances - levels of risk, tolerance, age, etc.

    Had I scored a 0 on my CAC test and not already had diabetes, I might feel differently, but I couldn't say "never" for someone in my situation, so I take Crestor (which, unlike Lipitor, gives me no cramps at all).

    Did your numbers improve with Crestor? I can't remember what you've said about that.

    But yes, I agree. Everyone's circumstances are different. You've got the XY chromosomes instead of the XX. I think that right there is a pretty big factor for many.
  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    RalfLott wrote: »
    Well, there are all sorts of differences between personal circumstances - levels of risk, tolerance, age, etc.

    Had I scored a 0 on my CAC test and not already had diabetes, I might feel differently, but I couldn't say "never" for someone in my situation, so I take Crestor (which, unlike Lipitor, gives me no cramps at all).

    Did your numbers improve with Crestor? I can't remember what you've said about that.

    But yes, I agree. Everyone's circumstances are different. You've got the XY chromosomes instead of the XX. I think that right there is a pretty big factor for many.

    My recent NMR Lipoprotein profile looked pretty good, but this is the first year my insurance has covered it, so no basis for comparison. I'll be going in soon for another CAC scan, and we'll see how that looks (fingers & eyes crossed!).
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    RalfLott wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    RalfLott wrote: »
    Well, there are all sorts of differences between personal circumstances - levels of risk, tolerance, age, etc.

    Had I scored a 0 on my CAC test and not already had diabetes, I might feel differently, but I couldn't say "never" for someone in my situation, so I take Crestor (which, unlike Lipitor, gives me no cramps at all).

    Did your numbers improve with Crestor? I can't remember what you've said about that.

    But yes, I agree. Everyone's circumstances are different. You've got the XY chromosomes instead of the XX. I think that right there is a pretty big factor for many.

    My recent NMR Lipoprotein profile looked pretty good, but this is the first year my insurance has covered it, so no basis for comparison. I'll be going in soon for another CAC scan, and we'll see how that looks (fingers & eyes crossed!).

    Crossing fingers for you!
  • MissMaggieElizabeth
    MissMaggieElizabeth Posts: 71 Member
    retirehappy wrote: »
    MissMaggieElizabeth wrote: »

    Rac I put in my profile the year I graduated from high school as my birth year because I left home the very next day and never went back. It was not a good place to be. I feel it was then I was finally born to be me.So I am actually 68 now. Well I will be in a few weeks.

    sniped

    I will send you a friend request we have a LOT in common, I turned 68 this week, and I did the same as you after graduating high school. Never looked back either.

    Great I will look for it. I never looked back either. That family is long gone now. HAHAHAH Last woman standing wins. That would be me.
  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
    edited July 2017
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    RalfLott wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    RalfLott wrote: »
    Well, there are all sorts of differences between personal circumstances - levels of risk, tolerance, age, etc.

    Had I scored a 0 on my CAC test and not already had diabetes, I might feel differently, but I couldn't say "never" for someone in my situation, so I take Crestor (which, unlike Lipitor, gives me no cramps at all).

    Did your numbers improve with Crestor? I can't remember what you've said about that.

    But yes, I agree. Everyone's circumstances are different. You've got the XY chromosomes instead of the XX. I think that right there is a pretty big factor for many.

    My recent NMR Lipoprotein profile looked pretty good, but this is the first year my insurance has covered it, so no basis for comparison. I'll be going in soon for another CAC scan, and we'll see how that looks (fingers & eyes crossed!).

    Crossing fingers for you!

    Thx!
    > - - <3 - >
  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
    Sarah Hallberg explains NMR Lipoprofile (short video).

    https://youtu.be/TB_SF10kosQ

  • AlexandraCarlyle
    AlexandraCarlyle Posts: 1,603 Member
    If I understand the above information form Dr Hallberg correctly, this outlines what she's saying, I think....?

    http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2006/5/report_heart/Page-02

    (I'm easily confused.... :D )
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