Need help on my journey!

JuneBerry2 · June 2017

Hello! I am new here at MFP. I’m so glad I found EM2WL! I have been trying to find my TDEE for about 9 months now, and I could use some help!

I have a history of under-eating, for at least several years (and maybe much longer). I did gain weight a few years ago, and then lost about 20 pounds by restricting calories. I am now just a few pounds over my pre-diet highest weight.

My stats:

Female
Age 51, postmenopausal
Pre-EM2WL weight 135
Pre-EM2WL calories about 1400
Pre-EM2WL body fat 30%

Current weight 154-155
Current calories 2225
Current body fat 34%

Calculated TDEE at 154 pounds for Moderate activity is 2131, for Strenuous is 2372.

Exercise: I am currently doing 3 days a week of body weight/light weight strength training for the lower body for about 45-60 minutes, plus another 2-3 days lighter strength training for the upper body for about 30 minutes. I am limited by some injuries. **I WAS doing workouts that lasted 1 – 1 ½ hours, which I now realize is too long! In the past it was even longer. So I am going to try to keep the time to 45 minutes. I also do housework and gardening.

I jumped in and upped my calories to 2000 within about 2 weeks of starting EM2WL. I increased the calories by 50 to 100 every week or two for a while, up to 2250 calories. Then I backed off by 25 to 50 at times, as low as 2150, thinking my weight was going up and I was over TDEE. Then I would forge ahead again by 25 to test the waters.

I did not feel good at 2150. I was too hungry and irritable! I felt good at 2200. But at 2225 now, I am sleeping better, and my morning temperature has been trending higher. So I think those are big changes that might be telling me I’m close to TDEE?

The thing is, at the last 2 calorie levels, 2200 and then 2225, my weight would go up a bit and then seem to stabilize for a month. Then my weight would go up a couple of pounds! So, was my weight really stable (like what the Metabolism Reset Guide says to look for before upping the calories again)? Or is there a slight trend upward?

At 2200, my weight was pretty stable around 150 for 4 weeks. Then it went up to 152. I was at that level for 5 weeks.

At 2225, my weight went up to 153 (over the first 3 weeks) and then stabilized for 4 weeks. Then it has gone up to 154-155 over the last 3-4 weeks. I have been at this calorie level for 10 weeks.

I have been increasing lean mass according to Trendweight, but I am gaining 2x as much fat mass as lean mass.

Questions:

Is there a gradual trend upward with my weight?

Does it really matter, if I am feeling better and sleeping better?

Is it possible that my body is gaining weight after 4 weeks of being stable because I haven’t reached TDEE yet and my body wants more food? (Is my body storing fat and gaining weight because it thinks I’m still starving)?

Does my body want to go back to its pre-diet high weight, plus a few pounds extra?

Could exercising too much/too long be increasing cortisol, and that’s why my weight and fat % keep going up?

Am I just getting bigger as I up the calories, making my TDEE go up? (Am I stuck in a loop?)

Could doing the same exercises (for physical therapy) month after month be affecting my weight? (I know we’re supposed to change them up every few weeks, but being in PT makes it hard to do that.)

Should I try upping calories again, to 2250?

Will I ever find my TDEE?

Thanks for any help you can offer!

Raynn1 · June 2017

Welcome to the group:)
First, know that all your questions are common and normal thinking. We all overthink, overprocess and stress over the little things during a reset. The things you need to ask yourself is what really matters to you.
You said you are sleeping better and generally feeling better. How much is that worth to you? Does it really matter if your weight isnt where you "think" it should be if you are feeling good about yourself and you are less stressed in general?
Things to remember - you come from a restricted dieting background which means you have lost a lot of muscle over the years to dieting. Resetting means replacing that muscle, NOT fat loss. Resetting means healing, so its common to see scale gains and energy gains and overall better feelings in general. You would be best to put the scale away while resetting and focus on how you feel overall.

As for your tdee, based on what you say you are doing for exercise, PT and general movement, you are in the strenuous category for cals.. so You are not eating enough. I would increase up to that 2370-2400 mark and sit there for a while and see what happens. Remember, you arent supposed to see scale drops or fat losses in reset, so dont be alarmed if you do see the number on the scale rise (hence why we tell you to put it away)

finding tdee is a bit of a science.. its not as cut and dry as picking the right number. For most of us we need to play around a bit and tweak numbers as we go. So dont be afraid to increase the cals. If anything, it helps you to build more muscle, which is what we are looking to replace:)

Hope this helps
Kelly
Team EM2WL

JuneBerry2 · June 2017

Thank you Kelly! WOW, I never thought my activity would qualify as “strenuous”! I thought maybe I could be in the middle somewhere between moderate and strenuous.

I added it up and am figuring the minimum amount of exercise I do is about 3 ½ hours, and could be up to 4 ½ hours. (My exercise consists of my PT-related stuff.) Would this number of hours still qualify as strenuous? I think Scooby says strenuous is 5-6 hours?

If I increase my calories to see what happens, what should I be looking for?

How do we find our TDEE if we don’t watch what the scale is doing, like seeing if our weight stabilizes before adding more calories, and knowing we’ve overshot our TDEE if our weight keeps going up?

Isn’t a “reset” what we do after we find our TDEE? So after we find our TDEE, we eat at or above that calorie level for our reset time?

That’s a good way to think about increasing the calories, as an opportunity to build more muscle!

Thanks for the help!

heybales · June 2017

Ya, if actually added up that's all, that's the low end of moderately active.

But the problem with those kinds of TDEE estimators (here and scooby's) - they don't account for any difference in daily activity outside exercise.

Even with deskjob, unless you come home and plop on couch and watch TV all night, most are busy with family/house stuff, and become lightly active just there, especially when weekend is counted in.

So you are likely top of Moderately active then.

And PT stuff usually isn't that countable, it's like daily activity level. Unless they really have you doing cardio sessions or lifting sessions - which I've never seen in PT.

JuneBerry2 · June 2017

Thanks heybales! What do you think the top range of moderately active would be? Maybe 2200-2300?

The exercises/PT stuff I am doing include: Squats, Hamstring curls, Hip and Glute and Quad exercises, Abs, Bicep curls and Tricep kickbacks, Shoulder exercises. They are all like what people do for regular workouts at the gym, but I am limited in how much weight I can do right now.

Has anyone ever heard it said that strength training for more than 45 minutes at a time can increase cortisol? (And that would lead to fat gain?)

heybales · June 2017

Cortisol doesn't lead to fat gain - leads to water weight gain. Usually around stomach. Perhaps that's the confusion.
Then again, some people think they gain that 4 lbs right there overnight of fat - which is about impossible.

Lifting for any amount of time, if it's hard enough to cause good stress on muscles (no stress, no need for improvement), causes water retention in the muscles (similar to inflammation for healing).

Not allowing recovery from said workout (which if good could take 24-48 hrs), and stressing the muscles again increases cortisol, and eventually poor workouts since body isn't getting stronger having recovery short circuited.

So is the physical therapy versions of those strength training items actually at a heavy weight, or pretty easy to rock through the 15 or whatever reps for the muscle?

I know when I had shoulder surgery, while painful and hard to do the motions - no real recovery needed the next day because it wasn't really an overload on the muscles, it just hurt using them. Could have done day after day if needed.
That's not the type of big calorie burn lifting would normally do (which compared to cardio is about equal to walking fast anyway, so not much in scheme of things).

It's only when you can do a really good overload progressive routine that it could be considered a workout needing as many calories as that time would assign.

Raynn1 · June 2017

You are definitely active, so high end of moderate to strenuous would be right on where you need to be. Again its not a science so a lot of it is playing around a bit with numbers to see where your target lies.
TDEE is just the target number. A reset takes place on the way up to TDEE AND includes staying at TDEE. Going above that number for a period of time would be considered Bulking.

Your PT work would just be considered stretching and such at this point, but if you are working up a sweat while doing it (im assuming you are doing work at home in between sessions), then those are things to consider with your caloric levels.
Also dont rule out your housework and gardening as part of your activity level. These are still activities that require a calorie burn and they can certainly add up to extra movement. You do not need to sweat for something to be working your body.

If you are interested, we have a link on the main community page for our group which is registration for a Webinar we are having next week. There will be some discussion on that talk about cortisol and how it affects your weight/fat loss efforts. Highly recommend:)

Kelly
Team EM2WL

JuneBerry2 · June 2017

Thanks for telling me about the Webinar! Where do we show up for it? Do we just log in here to the main EM2WL page?

Is it possible to gain weight because we need more calories? (I’m going to guess yes?)

I am so hungry today! I’ve woken up too early the last couple of days and am hungry and irritable, and just feel yucky, like I can’t handle doing anything today. Maybe here’s why:

Last week I took a rest week from workouts, the first time I’ve ever done that. When I started back up this week, I was going to try to reduce a few reps/ sets and limit my workouts to 45 minutes. I was also trying a couple of new exercises.

I was so wiped out after my workouts! I think I was doing them “faster” to get done before 45 minutes, and it felt stressful to my body. And maybe the couple of new exercises were challenging for me.

What do you think? Did the rest week, then changing my workout routine a bit, do something to my body?

If I up the calories, is it okay to go 25 cals at a time? Or is that too slow?

(I think maybe I never should have mentioned the PT, as it may be confusing. The exercises I listed above ARE my PT exercises, and yes I do sweat!)

heybales · June 2017

You have way more inaccuracies in your food logging and nutrition labels - 25 calories way too slow.

Sweating isn't an indication of a good hard workout - it's merely a sign your body is either hot and trying to cool, or it's trained and thinks it will get hot. Or something hurts or is difficult, but may not be hard.
You can have a not strenuous workout and sweat.

Rest week was probably really good, changing routine not as big a deal, the method of workout was though.

If you held your breath during say a 1 minute of rest during sets - would the next set be harder?
Sure - because it was heavy?
Only heavy because you had no recovery to allow doing another set normally.

So yes, rushing wasn't useful. Just arbitrarily prevents doing as heavy a workout, or when attempting to, makes you more tired.

You likely would have come back stronger from a rest - most do.
The fact you dropped reps/sets and found it harder - means you rushed and just limited yourself.

That kind of stress can actually increase cortisol and water weight gain.

And cause more retained water in muscles for healing.

JuneBerry2 · June 2017

Thanks for the interesting info! I had someone tell me to take it slow at 25 calorie increases, and it’s been about every 5-8 weeks. But I know EM2WL says to increase by 100 calories, and in reading about reverse dieting they mostly say 100 calories and some say 50-100 calories.

I was afraid maybe I was going too slow! Maybe my weight increases have outpaced my calorie increases, leading to a higher TDEE.

Is it possible that my body is gaining weight after 4 weeks of being stable because I haven’t reached TDEE yet and my body wants more food?

I’m feeling discouraged because the weight gain is really showing up in my face now! And I fear that the weight will never stop going up!

heybales · June 2017

No, your body if at a deficit to true TDEE doesn't magically hold on to fat weight.

That's the often repeated myths about skipping breakfast and metabolism stops and you hold on to all the fat and don't burn any.
Add any number of myths in there along the same lines.

Like eating too little doesn't cause fat to be held onto or gained.

But it can stress the body and cause water weight gain while fat is lost. But usually under stress, muscle is being lost too.
And body is usually burning less than it's potential to compensate for the extreme deficit.

But it sure can't cause fat to be gained or even stop fat from being lost.

So gaining weight now after being stable - stress water weight - easily.

Or possible but not that much gain - your activity level slowed down, so in essence eating more, and that increases carb stores in muscles with attached water.

Or possible but again not much gain - your cardio activity using muscle glucose stores has increased so body is storing more with the attached water.

25 cal extra daily for a week at a time is going to take forever (besides the sheer inaccuracy of attempting that), and just keep body under stressful conditions longer.
If your body really has a problem speeding up enough daily activity (that's what really drops) to cover 100 extra calories daily for a week at a time - you have other health issues going on.

How close are you to estimated TDEE?

Do you hold to the routine each week that the TDEE is based on (for instance 3-5 hrs, really hitting 3 every week minimum?).

You could also be over potential TDEE and body isn't going to burn more. Unless you just keep increasing weight, which isn't a good method to hit an estimated TDEE number.

JuneBerry2 · June 2017

Thanks for the comments! I’ll have to think about the stress water weight.

When you say just doing 25 calories at a time keeps my body under stressful conditions longer, do you mean the stress of being under TDEE, not having enough calories?

I agree, it seems like 25 cals at a time will take forever! It seems it is not enough to prompt the body to show me if a certain calorie level is okay (stabilizing weight) or too much (weight clearly going up and not stabilizing).

I am currently at 2225, which is between my “moderate” TDEE of 2139, and my “strenuous” TDEE of 2380.

I do keep to my exercise routine. I have recently allowed myself an occasional day off, maybe once every 3 weeks or so.

By “other health issues,” maybe not being able to handle 100 extra calories might mean something like low thyroid function?

Raynn1 · June 2017

Our webinar can be found here: https://eatmore2weighless.lpages.co/lose-fat-webinar-registration/?utm_source=mfp&utm_medium=DM&utm_campaign=quick start

There are two days this week we will be running it! Sign up for it!:)

As for the cal increase.. 25 is not a lot of an increase. However if that it all you are comfortable increasing at a time, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with taking it that slowly. Yes, it will take you longer to get up to your TDEE, but I would much rather see you go at it at your own pace, than rush things and stress out more with a larger jump. So no matter what this is YOUR journey so take it however fast or slow you want to.

Scale gains are common as we make our way up to TDEE. The body is trying to replenish everything you have lost during your dieting days.. so muscle, water, etc are gained back.,Honestly, removing the scale from your life will make the biggest change to your success.. there are many other ways of gauging your TDEE number that doesnt involve the scale. Too many times people fret over that stupid thing and it ends up ultimately driving them to fall back into old ways.

2225 sounds like a good number to hit for now. Reevaluate as you monitor your activity levels:)

Kelly
Team EM2WL

heybales · June 2017

Those with thyroid issues do indeed show a max 5% below expected BMR. But that's medicine required for other body functions to operate correctly level of thyroid issue.

The bigger issue there is it makes you tired and move less during the day, effecting your TDEE.

Several studies have shown it's not the metabolism slowdown from thyroid that is the problem with weight gain or difficulty losing - it's the amount of movement from feeling tired.
Even there, some can get inspired enough to do a workout, a really good one. But then be so knocked out rest the day, they gained 500 from the workout, but lost 400 from sitting more. So the workout only increased their day by 100 calories.

So if injured and doing this therapy, confirm if the pain perhaps isn't knocking down your activity level. If no pain, then likely no problem.

You are so close to TDEE, my comment about keeping body under stress longer doesn't apply.
But if you had like 800 to move up, and was merely keeping to 25 increases because someone mentioned it, then look at how many weeks you are well below potential TDEE causing stress, rather than just 100 weekly.

You do sound moderate level though, since the therapy isn't the level of lifting weights that gives more calorie burn.
And even that level of lifting "heavy" is equal to walking about 4 mph, so not huge burn.

Just remember that fat is not fast - lost or gained.

A 1 lb increase in 1 week if it truly was fat would imply you ate 500 over true TDEE each and every day.
And even if you selected the wrong activity level - the math just doesn't work out for that to be the case.

But water weight, can be quick coming on (like increased sodium compared to normal), and slow coming off (like sodium).

Since the waist is usually the first place people gain and last place lose fat - that measurement at the belly button will give a better tale than the scale.
Since your BMR literally changes through the month, monthly weigh-in on a valid day is just fine to confirm trends.

JuneBerry2 · June 2017

Thanks Kelly, that makes me feel a bit better! What are the “other ways” to gauge our TDEE? Would it include sleeping better, better mood, not feeling very hungry, having more energy for workouts, etc?

It sure is confusing because the metabolism reset guide says to watch the scale. And that seems simple because it’s numbers, not feelings. But I can see how it might be inaccurate and stress us out!

Thanks, I did sign up for the webinar!

Sorry for any confusion about the calorie increases. I started out my journey by increasing about 500 calories over a couple of weeks, then by 100 calories every few weeks, then up or down by 50, and now over the last few months by 25 calories.

Thanks heybales! It is mild pain right now that has me moving a bit less efficiently, maybe a little slower. But it doesn’t keep me from moving.

The belly button measurement has gone up about ½ inch over the past month.

Would water weight show up in the face? I’m guessing not?

Will the weight gain ever end??? I sure hope so! (Feeling scared!)

Raynn1 · June 2017

Other ways to gauge can include how you feel, how you sleep, your energy levels, how your clothes fit etc..
TDEE is still just an estimate so a lot depends on the person and how much they are wiling to let go of.. the scale is a hard one for people to get rid of, so watching the numbers can help SOME people, but if you cannot stand to see that number rise, then its not a good measure for you for tdee.. working up to tdee is a process and it most always causes fluctuations in the scale... and not a good way for most of us:)... so being able to not stress about seeing that number go up is more important than knowing what the number actually is.

The weight gains do balance and level off.. its a tough pill to swallow and believe me its not easy.. so think long term.. this "weight" is not fat.. its adding muscle and water and glyogen back into my body which was removed from dieting. It NEEDS to be there in order for the FUTURE results to be permanent. Think of it as short term pains for long term gains:)

It sucks, I wont lie. I struggled hard with my reset.. but looking back, I wouldnt have it any other way

Kelly
Team EM2WL

JuneBerry2 · July 2017

Last week I was brave and upped the calories by 50! I had a night when I woke up feeling hungry enough to get a snack (plus the fatigue I mentioned before), so that prompted me to think I might need more calories.

My weight stayed pretty much in the same range as last week, maybe a tiny bit on the higher end.

Well, last night I woke up feeling hungry again, and got a snack. I feel tired today! Yesterday I did something kinda mentally taxing, so maybe that’s why?

Does that mean I should up the calories again by 50 or so? What do you think? By the way, it’s been about 6 months (before last week) since I have felt hungry and got a snack in the middle of the night.

Before I took that rest week off from exercise, then started up again, I had felt pretty decent and was sleeping better. What happened? Did my metabolism get kick-started by the rest week?

Also, I was thinking, what are the chances that I’ve been over my TDEE this whole time? When I started, my calculated TDEE was around 2000, and I only stayed at that level for a couple of weeks before increasing by 100, and continuing up from there.

But, how I have been feeling better at higher calorie levels--like sleeping better, not waking up hungry (until recently), etc.—makes me think I am getting closer to TDEE the higher I go.

But, my weight keeps going up, slowly! Am I crazy to eat more food when my weight keeps going up this whole time? (No, but I feel like it!)

Kelly, thanks for your comments! I have definitely gained fat during this time. My tummy has gained inches! It sure is hard, especially mentally. This process is so challenging and confusing!

heybales · July 2017

Suggest examining the food diary too, and when you ate.

A higher carb ratio causing insulin spike and causing blood sugar to go lower than normal can also make you _feel_ hungry - but your body really did get enough calories.

kcmsmith0405 · July 2017

What heybales said - if I eat enough protein and good carbs I don't feel hungry at TDEE. If I eat not enough proteina nd bad carbs I could eat 1000 over my TDEE and not feel satisfied. Look at what and when you ate. Focus on the 30% protein and they rest will most likely fall into place.

heybales · July 2017

For as many people that always say to listen to your body (I dislike that phrase personally as advice, never mind great majority are probable here trying to lose weight because they did exactly that) - it's usually failed to mention it's a foreign language that is being spoken.

So to listen to it and understand means some translation and knowledge is required.

JuneBerry2 · August 2017

I need help figuring out what my body is telling me! I am feeling more hungry, but my weight is still trending upward.

My calories:

I’ve been at the 2300 calorie level for 9 weeks now.

Scooby has me at 2170 for moderate exercise, and 2400 for strenuous.

Other calculators at “active” level (vs. light active or very active) have me at 2400.

My weight:

A few weeks ago my weight seemed quite steady (not bouncing around) at 158 for 1 week.

Then for the next 2 weeks, it seemed quite stable at 159.

Now this week I’m up to 160, but it’s stable.

So, if my weight is still going up every couple of weeks, then that’s not really “stablized,” right?

My hunger:

Three times in the last couple of weeks, I’ve woken up in the middle of the night feeling hungry enough to get up and have a snack. (I am very consistent on protein and carbs, so that’s not the issue.) This usually only happens once every 2 months or so.

Then I feel yucky and tired the whole next day.

In the past, I’ve taken this as a sign that I need more calories throughout the day.

Also, I find myself more hungry in the mornings lately.

My activity level:

Over the last month or so, my activity has increased a bit with a new PT routine. So that adds maybe 45 minutes to 1 ½ hours of light exercise per week. I was at about 4 ½ hours of body weight strength training exercise before. So that could put me at 5-6 hours of exercise per week?

What it means?

Do I need to add more calories? (If I was reading this about someone else, I’d say yes!)

But what about the weight still creeping upward?

I’d appreciate any feedback! Thanks!

kcmsmith0405 · August 2017

Have you done any measurements? Are they going up or is it just the weight?

heybales · August 2017

If, IF, you have an issue with spiking insulin it can many times decrease blood sugar more than it needs to - leaving you feeling hungry - not because your body needs more food.

You can usually test that by after going say 4 hrs since last meal, have a bagel and observe how tired you feel for how long.

If no issue - that's not it.

If issue - always eat the fat and protein in a meal/snack first.

That aside - if eating more has you feeling more energetic and moving more - you are probably now burning more than estimated TDEE. If not much stress in life could actually start losing weight with that effect.

If by creep upward you mean maybe 2 lb in 4 weeks implying a daily surplus of 250 calories - might examine if logging accurately by weight is being done, how much eating out and estimating, ect.

Sometimes just being super vigilant and perhaps restrictive for a couple weeks will point out where the inaccuracies are - and then you can go back to normal routine knowing how much they are to adjust for them.

But 1 lb a week would imply 500 cal surplus each day - and that would have to be some sloppy logging or much inaccuracy.
So it's usually water weight. especially if workouts have gotten better and harder.

JuneBerry2 · September 2017

Okay I just did some measurements. The waist and hips are pretty much the same as 2 moths ago, the beginning of July, when my weight was 155. The waist at the belly button seems to have gone down by maybe 1/2 inch, interestingly!

I am very careful with measuring and tracking my calories. I am afraid to go out to eat! I actually mustered courage to take my husband out for lunch for his birthday a few weeks ago. I estimated calories, but later figured out I was 150 calories short that day. That's one of the nights I woke up hungry in the middle of the night and got a snack.

I don't know if I ever go 4 hours without eating! Except maybe before bed. But I just added a bedtime snack this week, as my dietician recommended. Just giving it a try for a while.

I do have adrenal fatigue issues, and my cortisol level is the high side of "normal." It is higher than normal when waking up. The rest of the day is the high side of normal.

Could cortisol be causing weight gain, especially around the belly?

Could cortisol be up because I need more calories?

So, how do I know if I need more calories based on hunger, vs what the scale is doing?

heybales · September 2017

As long as you have knowledge about why you may feel hungry, you can usually adjust diet enough to stop those issues.

The scale on infrequent basis can be backup to that - if that in itself doesn't stress you out. If it does, just use measurements of body parts you know you gain first at. Usually at belly button is repeatable and the spot, but perhaps you have another spot worth noting.

Diet is a stress on body to some degree (depends on amount of deficit), piled on to all other stresses in body and life, and when it goes high enough - yes to cortisol increase.

And belly water gain is exactly an area that gets it because of that.

As to elevated cortisol all the time, that is bad. Shots of it from workouts and the flight response is great, constant not at all. I guess if nothing was told was reason for it - just trying to cut back on stress you can control will be very beneficial.

You can still lose fat while elevated water from that, but the body in that stressed out mode doesn't benefit as much from workouts and such.

So good job on logging food then, I'd even suggest some times out with no stress may be very good for you.
When you say measuring though - you mean weighing, right, when you can?
Because calories is per gram, not spoon or cup measures. Only liquid is measured for volume to get calories.

What kind of daily macro % do you end up at for normal daily eating?
What does it appear each meal or snack is at?

JuneBerry2 · September 2017

I'm hungry today! I'm not sure why, the only reason I can think of is I need more food!

I just realized something . . . I am at the same calorie level now that I was at last fall! That's when I was going up or down by 100 calories. I went up to about 2300, and felt pretty good. But then I lowered the cals by 100 because I gained 1 pound per week for 4 weeks. After that I went up and down 25 calories between 2150 - 2225 for many months.

But now I weigh about 20 pounds more! So in some ways it seems maybe 2300 is low for me now? Would 2400 be more like where I should be?

My macros are around 40 carbs, 35 fat, and 25 protein. I know that 30 protein would be good, but I'm proud of myself for getting up to 25 most days! It's a process, right?

Most meals have at least 30 grams of protein. Carbs are usually 60-90 grams. Yes I weigh food.

I'm hoping someone will give me permission to eat more food, even though my weight hasn't "stabilized" yet! (I don't need permission, of course! But I'd appreciate any advice!)

Raynn1 · September 2017

Everything is a process for sure. If you are finding you are still hungry, I would start by taking that as a sign to increase your protein from 25% to 30%.. You may find thats all you need to do and still hit your TDEE.

This is your journey. So if you feel you aren't getting enough food and need more, then by gosh give YOURSELF permission to eat. Restricting your level just because the scale isnt saying what you want it to say is diet mentality. You may find you still arent at the correct level, so an increase cal be a great thing, especially if you are finding your energy levels are zapped.

Finding and maintaining TDEE isnt an exact science. Its a lot of trial and error. All I will say is that if you let the scale dictate what it should be, you might not like the results. Since you already suffer from a spike in cortisol levels, keeping your stress levels lower is essential. That may mean getting rid of the scale.

Kelly
Team EM2WL

heybales · September 2017

As well as additional protein when you can fit it in - might try eating the fat and protein first in any meal or snack if at all possible, carbs last.

Test to see if that has any effect to feeling hungry later.

You could have overreaction of insulin to carbs. Actually, protein causes insulin response too, just not as bad or as high.

JuneBerry2 · September 2017

Thanks for the comments! I always read the comments right away, but might not post again until I have something “interesting” to report!

I ended up adding 50 more calories 4 weeks ago, up to 2350. Some calculators have me at 2400, others at around 2180.

I’ve only gained 1 pound with this increase so far, and have been pretty stable between 161.0 and 161.8. (I did have a couple of 162s this week.) I even thought I might be losing weight, because last week I had 3 days in a row at 161.0. (I am not stressing about the scale, I feel pretty okay with it right now.)

Now in the last week or so, I’m getting hungry again! I’ve also been feeling very tired. I even skipped 2 workouts this week because of feeling tired! That’s unusual for me.

I am seeing signs in the past week that seem to tell me I need more calories. Like feeling hungry in the middle of the night sometimes. And the tiredness, not having energy to do the things I want to do.

Maybe I should add another 50 calories?

There seems to be a pattern where I add calories, then feel good for 2-3 weeks or so. Then I start feeling hungry at times, and might even be hungry enough in the middle of the night to get up for a snack.

Does that mean my metabolism has caught up with the new calorie level, and I need to eat more?

I am trying to work on more protein. I’m usually around 140-150 grams, and should be at 160 to get the 1 gram per pound of weight.

*

This process has been hard because I’ve tried to find my TDEE by increasing calories and watching the scale for my weight to stabilize. And it doesn’t seem to work for me, because my weight has never really “stabilized” for very long, it just keeps going up over time.

On the other hand, my weight has looked very stable for periods of 2 weeks or so recently. And in the past it has looked pretty stable for 4 weeks a couple of times. Maybe that’s what “stabilized” looks like for me? Maybe it’s different for everyone?

I have wondered if maybe I’m still below TDEE, and that could be causing stress on the body, which increases cortisol, and that leads to fat gain. Would that make sense?

I don’t have a normal level of energy yet. Today I had some ambition, at least mentally, but didn’t have the body energy to do what I might have wanted to do. I haven’t had normal energy in years! Maybe that’s because of undereating?

heybales · September 2017

Your body's first reaction to undereating is to slow you down daily in some manner.
Basic metabolism is last action actually (BMR).

So with eating more - you easily could have become slightly more active, burning more.
Shoot, even seasonal changes for amount of activity.
And workouts could have become better, burning more there too.

So while feeling hungry is not of itself a good sign (isn't that how most gain weight - feel hungry and eat when they don't need to) it can be useful if sign is read with understanding (does that red arrow pointing up on sign mean go forward, red so don't go forward, something is up ahead to be alert, what other colored arrows are used?).

But that is very good stabilized then.
Considering 50 calories is well below the amount of allowed inaccuracy in food labels even when food is weighed, let alone less accurate nutritional info (eating out, fresh stuff) - I wouldn't stick with 50.

Make it 100.

Keep in mind that even IF you actually went over your true potential accurate TDEE by 100 cal daily - it would take 35 days to slowly gain 1 lb if TDEE stayed exactly the same.

Now - that is how people slowly gain fat weight over the years of course - but for a test - that's nothing.

But even if you went over - your workouts would probably become better, you might be even more active and increase calorie burn by 150 daily on most days - wiping out what is thought to be a deficit.

JuneBerry2 · September 2017

Thanks, that's very interesting!

So, if it takes 35 days to gain 1 lb if I was over TDEE by 100 cals . . . Then why am I gaining weight now, and for the past year?

Could it be because I'm under my TDEE, and my body wants to store fat due to being in "starvation mode"?

I had another 162 today. So this week my weight has trended up slightly, after being very stable for 2 weeks.

Eat More 2 Weigh Less

Need help on my journey!

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