"The End of Overeating, Taking Control of the Insatiable North American Appetite"
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Run amuck capitalism or a Soviet Style over controlling governments are NOT our only options for an economic food system.
I am an organic farmer and the reason I sell at the farmer's market is because the huge corprate food giants have taken over almost all the other markets. I can't sell to grocery stores because they want tons, delivery to far distances, at rock bottom prices, food that look better than they taste, and have contracts with corporate vendors. I can't sell to the schools that feed our children because the Ag. Department requires they buy from huge corprate farms they have contracts with. To compete for those contracts you have to meet criteria that are way beyond the abilities of small organic farmers. I can't sell to hospitals and other institution because those markets are tied up with contracts with huge corporate farms from out of state. I can't sell to most chain restaurants because they have abusive annimal requirements (Farmers are required to raise the poor farm animal in horrible conditions) and they have contracts with out of state corporate farmers.
So, yes I have problems with our giant corporate run crappy food system. Why can't you get an organic, humanly raised burger at McDonalds? Why can't our kids have healthy organic salads from local small farmers? There are over 400 local farmers at my farmer's market. Yet most of them can't sell their fresh, organic foods to most of the outlets people buy food from.
It's not about going to McDonalds and asking for organic broccoli. They wont carry it without huge pressure from politicians and citizens. Because it is more expensive for them to do that and it cuts their profits. They feed you pink slime hamburgers and abused chicken meat not because they have to but because they want to make more and more profit. Nothing else but profit matters in captalism. And profit should NOT be our only yard stick when it comes to feeding our bodies.
Ok rant off, sorry but people really don't know how our American food system runs and how dangerous Round Up laced, pesticide covered foods really are until they stop eating them and start feelig better.
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We as individuals vote with our wallets in a capitalist system. As long as we continue to buy pink slime from abused animals, they will continue to sell it to us. If we stopped buying their nasty food, they would absolutely stop producing it.
It's not as if the people eating there are unaware what they are eating, the information is quite publicly available.
I'm a huge farmers market shopper and I cook at home almost all the time, I pack my lunches, I don't really do breakfast, but I find that I'm way in the minority among my peers...I tell people at work that I don't eat out much and they inform me that they don't eat out much either, only like twice a week...except then they start talking and I realize that they mean twice a week for dinner and five or six days a week for lunch and two or three times a week for breakfast...my version of not eating out much is like once a week for lunch and once a month for dinner...They never even realize that they are eating ten meals a week that someone else is preparing and much of it is fast food with little nutritional value, it just doesn't even hit their radar. And ten meals a week, that's generally accepted by most people as not eating out much. Lots of people eat out even more often.3 -
What about the issue of not having many dollars to spend. And if you are paycheck-to-paycheck with multiple mouths to feed, are you going to follow your principles and let your kids go hungry because you can't afford organic? Food insecurity is a big problem.
Feed them with pink slime vs. hunger with organic but not enough food?
As things are now and in context with poverty and the way the economy is, organic vs. Big Farm is a "First-World Problems" argument.
50 Shades of Gray isn't just a book title.
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LOL. Never thought the video focusing on (to me) the "whys" of overeating would result a discussion regarding capitalism, organic versus no, etc. What I took from the video was how I might be "wired" (ancestral) for certain tastes, so not totally within my control...I can be in control and need to learn to be aware of my responses and behaviors within my environment.
But carry on. The discussion is interesting too. @cedarsidefarm, 400 is a big Farmers Market. Are you at the NC State Farmers Market in Raleigh or elsewhere? My husband works with a vendor there and I frequent it often. I previously used the closer to me "satellite" market (I could walk to it) but since they've moved across town I go to Raleigh (sounds like an episode of Andy Griffith
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My locals farmer's markets are cheaper than my local grocery stores...so I don't get the money angle as a valid argument for not eating pink slime unless there are really areas where buying food from farmers is more expensive than buying it from a chain store. I suspect that is not really the case anywhere. It's just more convenient to eat pink slime than to get up early on a Saturday and shop directly with farms and plan a menu based on what is in season and available and cook all week.0
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tcunbeliever wrote: »My locals farmer's markets are cheaper than my local grocery stores...so I don't get the money angle as a valid argument for not eating pink slime unless there are really areas where buying food from farmers is more expensive than buying it from a chain store. I suspect that is not really the case anywhere. It's just more convenient to eat pink slime than to get up early on a Saturday and shop directly with farms and plan a menu based on what is in season and available and cook all week.
I agree with you on cost...WHEN a farmer's market is available. Sadly, food deserts are a real phenomenon.
I live on the outskirts of a rural town. We are 45 minutes from the nearest chain grocery store with fresh produce. Our single local market is small and, by necessity, expensive. Parts of our town are LCOL for California, so a lot of those residents are low income. For those that are not able to make the drive into one of the larger cities, their choices are Dollar General (limited, low quality canned, boxed and frozen foods) or whatever local fast food place will take their SNAP card.3 -
I'm in VA, our farmers markets do take the SNAP card, though I think that only started within the last year or two.1
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tcunbeliever wrote: »I'm in VA, our farmers markets do take the SNAP card, though I think that only started within the last year or two.
Our nearest Farmer's Market is 45 minutes away. The travel limitation still applies for us and for other rural/urban areas. I have no idea if the Farmer's Markets take SNAP cards. It would be awesome if they did...I love that your area does.1 -
I understand the limitations of being able to buy locally produced organic foods. That's what I'm complaining about. Why should you have to be rich to get the healthy good foods? Why do you have to be rich to get a vote in our food system? Dollars are NOT equally distributed based on hard work or merit. Many people are born into wealth like royalty, do they get more of a vote? I know farmers who work their butts off to raise amazing delicious and healthy foods but make little money off their produce. Yet dollars are the only thing that counts when we want to change our access to healthy food. It should NOT be that money is equal to votes or access to healthy food. By the way, I take SNAP and actually give people who buy with SNAP a small discount (especially after congress cut back on how much SNAP they give to hungry Americans).
We in the US subsidize grain producers. I have applied for grants from the US but almost ALL grants go to corporate farmers. It started with Nixon. That's why you have carbs and high fructose corn syrup in just about every processed food. It is cheap because our tax dollars go to supporting growing all those GMO, Pesticide and Round Up covered grains.
Why should you be importing tomatoes from Mexico, when I live right here and could raise better tomatoes for you? Why not take some of those give aways to grain farmers and give them to vegetable farmers or local organic farmers? Then you could get low carb healthy foods for a whole lot less. I could pack up a truck and go sell my produce in food deserts areas or poor neighborhoods. I can't do that now because I can't make ends meet by selling cheaper so poorer people can afford it. But if I had a grant or was subsidized like our US grain producers and large corporate farms are, I could make healthy food available to everyone.3 -
tcunbeliever wrote: »My locals farmer's markets are cheaper than my local grocery stores...so I don't get the money angle as a valid argument for not eating pink slime unless there are really areas where buying food from farmers is more expensive than buying it from a chain store. I suspect that is not really the case anywhere. It's just more convenient to eat pink slime than to get up early on a Saturday and shop directly with farms and plan a menu based on what is in season and available and cook all week.
I agree with you on cost...WHEN a farmer's market is available. Sadly, food deserts are a real phenomenon.
I live on the outskirts of a rural town. We are 45 minutes from the nearest chain grocery store with fresh produce. Our single local market is small and, by necessity, expensive. Parts of our town are LCOL for California, so a lot of those residents are low income. For those that are not able to make the drive into one of the larger cities, their choices are Dollar General (limited, low quality canned, boxed and frozen foods) or whatever local fast food place will take their SNAP card.
It is ridiculous how little is available in rural areas in some places. I live in the TN Appy's. Our farmer's market is tiny and in town, usually with only produce. It's not any cheaper than the store in some cases. The time and location are both very inconvenient for us personally. "In town" is as long a drive for some as the grocery store. We do have 3 little produce markets in the area, but I know at least 2 of them aren't set up to take SNAP cards either. And we have no public transportation. Some people have a hard time affording transportation when their car dies on them. Nearest grocery is 20 min from us, but we are closer than many many folks who have to drive 35-45 min for anything better than a gas station or a Dollar General. We get organic meat and eggs only thanks to the in-laws who have chickens. Just eggs as they don't butcher birds. And they have a cow butchered every couple years. The cost to feed one and then butcher is no cheaper than store-bought and sometimes it is more. Between all of us, there are many mouths to feed and even the garden only goes so far for so long.
We get lots of people from NC who drive into here to get to a Walmart. I'm pretty sure that's an hour drive for them. They have a bit of a drive to groceries as well. IIRC. I haven't been to the NC side in awhile.
In winter, there is no produce market. We rarely can get enough to grow to have enough left over to can at our place. We grow rocks really well here. Other things don't do near as well, as they say here.
My FIL usually can get enough green beans to grow to can some. And he cans some salsa and kraut. But he's retired now, so he has the time to do all that. And he isn't on the mtn in a valley, so he gets more sunlight and more warmth. I plan to have a bigger garden. It didn't do well last year. The feral cat hoard (fed by an elderly guy across the street) comes over and wrecks our garden. Ruined our zucchini/squash bed.
If I worked, maybe we'd have enough to frequent little produce markets and buy organic. But I doubt it because this is Appalachia, and we get paid half here for the same job you'd find elsewhere. DH gets paid about $20k to $30k less here than he would elsewhere. Except he's devoted to the house he built and his family here so he puts up with it. And I'm a Librarian. Not a profession that pays the big bucks. And not a lot of positions here either. Also I have 4 ravenous kids, and I also feed my elderly father for part of the day. I do my best to cook as least processed as I can for supper for everyone. We pay a LOT for groceries as is. Even organic canned goods can be as much as $.50 to a full dollar (or more) than regular. I eat a whole regular can of greens by myself. For one meal.
Don't get me started on how little we have left after we pay premiums for health insurance with a $7000 deductible.
In Appalachia, there is a lot of poverty. It is a regular thing here in the summer now for churches and organizations to provide breakfasts and lunches for school age children, because they aren't getting fed when they aren't in school. We have food banks that get a workout constantly. There's a Meals on Wheels that takes food to communities in other Appy areas. None of that is organic. That's just subsistence. Right before school lets back in, churches hold Fairs where they give out school supplies, backpacks, hair cuts, and school clothes. In winter people donate coats. My best RL friend had her school give one of her daughters a new pair of shoes when they noticed that hers were worn out. They are lucky. Her husband has work. And she gets paid part-time to be a full time teachers' assistant in a middle school special ed class (even though she's had a teaching degree for 3 years, there's no full time jobs. Or should I say, not enough jobs for those who need work.)
TL;DR:
So all those words to say, that I believe that if you are able (as in it is cost effective or even available) to buy organic and/or from small farms you absolutely should. If not, do the best you can as you can. 2 -
baconslave wrote: »tcunbeliever wrote: »My locals farmer's markets are cheaper than my local grocery stores...so I don't get the money angle as a valid argument for not eating pink slime unless there are really areas where buying food from farmers is more expensive than buying it from a chain store. I suspect that is not really the case anywhere. It's just more convenient to eat pink slime than to get up early on a Saturday and shop directly with farms and plan a menu based on what is in season and available and cook all week.
I agree with you on cost...WHEN a farmer's market is available. Sadly, food deserts are a real phenomenon.
I live on the outskirts of a rural town. We are 45 minutes from the nearest chain grocery store with fresh produce. Our single local market is small and, by necessity, expensive. Parts of our town are LCOL for California, so a lot of those residents are low income. For those that are not able to make the drive into one of the larger cities, their choices are Dollar General (limited, low quality canned, boxed and frozen foods) or whatever local fast food place will take their SNAP card.
It is ridiculous how little is available in rural areas in some places. I live in the TN Appy's. Our farmer's market is tiny and in town, usually with only produce. It's not any cheaper than the store in some cases. The time and location are both very inconvenient for us personally. "In town" is as long a drive for some as the grocery store. We do have 3 little produce markets in the area, but I know at least 2 of them aren't set up to take SNAP cards either. And we have no public transportation. Some people have a hard time affording transportation when their car dies on them. Nearest grocery is 20 min from us, but we are closer than many many folks who have to drive 35-45 min for anything better than a gas station or a Dollar General. We get organic meat and eggs only thanks to the in-laws who have chickens. Just eggs as they don't butcher birds. And they have a cow butchered every couple years. The cost to feed one and then butcher is no cheaper than store-bought and sometimes it is more. Between all of us, there are many mouths to feed and even the garden only goes so far for so long.
We get lots of people from NC who drive into here to get to a Walmart. I'm pretty sure that's an hour drive for them. They have a bit of a drive to groceries as well. IIRC. I haven't been to the NC side in awhile.
In winter, there is no produce market. We rarely can get enough to grow to have enough left over to can at our place. We grow rocks really well here. Other things don't do near as well, as they say here. My FIL usually can get enough green beans to grow to can some. And he cans some salsa and kraut. But he's retired now, so he has the time to do all that. And he isn't on the mtn in a valley, so he gets more sunlight and more warmth. I plan to have a bigger garden. It didn't do well last year. The feral cat hoard (fed by an elderly guy across the street) comes over and wrecks our garden. Ruined our zucchini/squash bed.
If I worked, maybe we'd have enough to frequent little produce markets and buy organic. But I doubt it because this is Appalachia, and we get paid half here for the same job you'd find elsewhere. DH gets paid about $20k to $30k less here than he would elsewhere. Except he's devoted to the house he built and his family here so he puts up with it. And I'm a Librarian. Not a profession that pays the big bucks. And not a lot of positions here either. Also I have 4 ravenous kids, and I also feed my elderly father for part of the day. I do my best to cook as least processed as I can for supper for everyone. We pay a LOT for groceries as is. Even organic canned goods can be as much as $.50 to a full dollar (or more) than regular. I eat a whole regular can of greens by myself. For one meal.
Don't get me started on how little we have left after we pay premiums for health insurance with a $7000 deductible.
In Appalachia, there is a lot of poverty. It is a regular thing here in the summer now for churches and organizations to provide breakfasts and lunches for school age children, because they aren't getting fed when they aren't in school. We have food banks that get a workout constantly. There's a Meals on Wheels that takes food to communities in other Appy areas. None of that is organic. That's just subsistence. Right before school lets back in, churches hold Fairs where they give out school supplies, backpacks, hair cuts, and school clothes. In winter people donate coats. My best RL friend had her school give one of her daughters a new pair of shoes when they noticed that hers were worn out. They are lucky. Her husband has work. And she gets paid part-time to be a full time teachers' assistant in a middle school special ed class (even though she's had a teaching degree for 3 years, there's no full time jobs. Or should I say, not enough jobs for those who need work.)
TL;DR:
So all those words to say, that I believe that if you are able (as in it is cost effective or even available) to buy organic and/or from small farms you absolutely should. If not, do the best you can as you can.
I live on the KY/TN border on the western end of the states. It is bad in the river counties as well. Both food and medical care options are on the decline for more and more people. High Carb/High Fat mixed with drugs, alcohol and tobacco and declining educational levels is wrecking the future of many. Most would starve if they counted on farmer markets for more than 5% of food goods. Forget farmer markets for the most part in the river end of the states. Grandfathers and grandmothers do help with big gardens/truck patches but most with kids at home are working 40-60 hours a week and just do not have the time to grow much produce. Some seniors really count on the Meals On Wheels programs. Senior centers feed several that have a way to travel to them but that is more high carb high fat grub that is often hard to tell what is in the food. Most are losing the fight with type 2 diabetes on the WOE.
Good food and health care options require good cash flow yet many only have a small social security check for income.
I see no way to reverse the negative trend toward worse health outcomes for the masses. The view that God presets our death dates so our lifestyles do not matter does not help matters in my area. The all sounds negative I know.
We have a funeral in the family tomorrow that is 10-20 years premature just due to lifestyle choices of the past 40 years. It is bad and getting worse. I was doing the same thing myself until Oct 2014 at the age of 62 and I can not blame the lack of years of healthcare training. I see 300+ pounds MD's at McDonald's morning after morning eat 70%+ carb meals containing a tone of HFCS.3
