How does meat (supposedly) cause T2D?
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nvmomketo
Posts: 12,019 Member
I'm reading the Longevity Diet by Valter Longo. He's fairly well known in the area of longevity but his book (and my biases) keep making me mad. 
The premise of his book us that calorie restriction by 30%, or even something like Michael Mosley's 5:2 fast diet, will lengthen life. At least in animal studies, or looking back at times like the 30's when people lived about 6 years longer. I have no problem with that. It seems to make sense and have some science explaining some of the reasons why it could be true.
What is irritating me is his longevity diet - what you are supposed to eat when not fasting. He recommends a low to moderate protein diet (often 13-17%) with low fat and low meat. Basically vegetarian with occasional fish added in and no dairy. Okay... I could accept that if there was evidence but he just keeps quoting epidemiological studies like the Nurses Health Study where higher meat intake (by a half serving) is ASSOCIATED with higher higher rates of T2D and CVD than for those who eat half a serving less of meat. He quotes the Low carbohydrate Diets and All-Cause and Cause-Specific Mortality: Two Cohort Studies frequently.
I looked at his sources. It is just correlation. Like how the sun rises when I get up. It's not a causation. The sun did not rise BECAUSE I got up. But he is suggesting a very high carb diet (lower in processed and refined carbs- the only thing almost everyone agrees on) to reduce T2D risk and to treat it. He leans heavily towards the Italian diet that he grew up with. No bias there....
Then I went looking for how meat actually causes T2D. The why of it and I can't find anything. That study is sited over 200 times but does not explain anything. I can't find anything. Just correlations repeated and re-sited until it sounds like causation.
The book does this too. In one line Longo states there is just a correlation but in the next few paragraphs he says how low protein diets, where the protein comes from plants, are protective. Is it really? Or is there just a correlation? Like the sun coming up when I wake up?
Does anyone have anything on HOW or WHY animal products CAUSE T2D or CVD? From what I have seen (like Sarah Hallberg's research) there are three ways to reverse/cure T2D: severe calorie restriction (fasting or a large caloric deficit), bariatric surgery, a LCHF ketogenic diet. Meat does not elevate BG and only slightly raises insulin so I don't understand how it is a problem.
I was on the road to T2D, and my family has a history of CVD, so this is very relevant to my life. I'm trying to find some evidence on why meat is bad, but I'm coming up with nothing and am increasingly becoming annoyed with this author. Just people repeatedly conflating correlation with causation. I believed in calorie restriction but I'm beginning to wonder if that is as science based as his dietary recommendations. KWIM?
I may just re read Nina Teicholz' Big Fat Surprise to confirm Long was overly biased ... unless someone has some science to share? Thanks!
The premise of his book us that calorie restriction by 30%, or even something like Michael Mosley's 5:2 fast diet, will lengthen life. At least in animal studies, or looking back at times like the 30's when people lived about 6 years longer. I have no problem with that. It seems to make sense and have some science explaining some of the reasons why it could be true.
What is irritating me is his longevity diet - what you are supposed to eat when not fasting. He recommends a low to moderate protein diet (often 13-17%) with low fat and low meat. Basically vegetarian with occasional fish added in and no dairy. Okay... I could accept that if there was evidence but he just keeps quoting epidemiological studies like the Nurses Health Study where higher meat intake (by a half serving) is ASSOCIATED with higher higher rates of T2D and CVD than for those who eat half a serving less of meat. He quotes the Low carbohydrate Diets and All-Cause and Cause-Specific Mortality: Two Cohort Studies frequently.
I looked at his sources. It is just correlation. Like how the sun rises when I get up. It's not a causation. The sun did not rise BECAUSE I got up. But he is suggesting a very high carb diet (lower in processed and refined carbs- the only thing almost everyone agrees on) to reduce T2D risk and to treat it. He leans heavily towards the Italian diet that he grew up with. No bias there....
Then I went looking for how meat actually causes T2D. The why of it and I can't find anything. That study is sited over 200 times but does not explain anything. I can't find anything. Just correlations repeated and re-sited until it sounds like causation.
The book does this too. In one line Longo states there is just a correlation but in the next few paragraphs he says how low protein diets, where the protein comes from plants, are protective. Is it really? Or is there just a correlation? Like the sun coming up when I wake up?
Does anyone have anything on HOW or WHY animal products CAUSE T2D or CVD? From what I have seen (like Sarah Hallberg's research) there are three ways to reverse/cure T2D: severe calorie restriction (fasting or a large caloric deficit), bariatric surgery, a LCHF ketogenic diet. Meat does not elevate BG and only slightly raises insulin so I don't understand how it is a problem.
I was on the road to T2D, and my family has a history of CVD, so this is very relevant to my life. I'm trying to find some evidence on why meat is bad, but I'm coming up with nothing and am increasingly becoming annoyed with this author. Just people repeatedly conflating correlation with causation. I believed in calorie restriction but I'm beginning to wonder if that is as science based as his dietary recommendations. KWIM?
I may just re read Nina Teicholz' Big Fat Surprise to confirm Long was overly biased ... unless someone has some science to share? Thanks!
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My Husband many years ago was told he had type 1 , he was taught how to give himself a shot and was giving a diet plan he was to follow. this plan was crazy , low fat foods , so many starches ,a day so many fats ,so many protein, and even so many sugars , it told him to eat 3 meals a day and he could only have just a little bit of each thing , meat was to be no bigger then a deck of cards and only once a day . We have tried to eat this way , He did try , but he would have low blood sugars , even had a few seizures . To this day if we talk to a nutritionist , they still use this diet .
I am to see a diabetic doctor for my legs and I have to do 2 hours with a nutritionist . I am not looking forward to that because I know she will try to talk me out of low carb . and do this stupid diabetic diet .
I have been on steroids and crazy hungry , but I have stayed under my 10 carbs and I am losing weight and my blood sugars are great .
so yes You will NOT find any articles that will say Low carb or carnivora diet is good for type 2 . or type 1 , but it is saving our lives .0 -
Has your husband read Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Solution? Great book for T1Ds that applies equally well to T2Ds.
I was looking at the ADA food guidelines today and they actually mention low carb now, although I don't think it said high fat. LOL just that more research is needed... But apparently enough research has been done on the DASH and vegetarian diets to recommend them. <roll eyes>
I am sure I'll find very little to nothing that proves high animal product intake improves CVD or T2D. I just wonder if there is any science that these lower meat recommendations are based on. I don't think there is... And I find that disturbing because plant based diets are growing in popularity but I don't think there is anything to support that growth.1 -
That 13%-17% protein amount certainly coincides with Stephen Phinney's suggestion of protein intake of 10%-20% for a Well Formulated Ketogenic Diet. Yes?
I never hear D'Agostino talk about eating steak. It always seems to be sardines or salmon. I'll guess he eats steak and just talks about salmon, sardines...and oysters...more frequently.
Valter Longo's Longevity Diet to me is not a low fat diet. In fact it is quite HIGH in UNsaturated fats such as avocados, olives EVOO, nuts, seeds, etc. It is also not a "no-dairy" diet. He favors goat and sheep dairy if one chooses dairy.
Valter Longo is not biased because he was raised in Italy and suggests a diet that highly resembles a Mediterranean Diet. His research has lead him down the path of a diet mirroring The Blue Zones.
I had much more written but deleted it. Maybe read The Blue Zones books next. There are 3 by Dan Buettner. His one about (Blue Zone) Happiness was thought provoking. Listen to a few podcasts by Rich Roll (vegan). He brings in some really interesting folks. Those guys/books will probably irritate you but you will hear/read of several studies related to meat and "lifestyle diseases" which include TD2 and CVD.
Posting the question "Does Meat Cause TD2" in a forum that is (generally speaking) pro animal consumption won't likely be helpful if you want research on why one should not eat meat. Try a few vegan sites.
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The China Study - but it's all correlation too.0
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People fundamentally don't understand correlation vs causation. It really annoys me to see all of these "studies" published for general consumption for the public when the public doesn't understand that difference.0
