WW Plans

2»

Replies

  • whathapnd
    whathapnd Posts: 1,213 Member
    countcurt wrote: »
    Actually, the plan always works. Because there’s a little caveat in every version that basically tells you if you’re not losing weight you need to adjust the parameters.)

    But if "adjusting the parameters" includes the need to calculate calories outside of the plan being used, I'd argue you're not really following a plan that works.

    I lost weight on Freestyle, but I was frequently/consistently WAY over my points allotment. The numbers were literally all over the place. If I ate within the allotted points, I was usually (but not always) stll very hungry. I found this frustrating, and it begged the question, "How many Freestyle points can I eat and still lose weight?" Once I started double-tracking in MFP, I learned the answer was, "It depends on what you eat."

    For me, that's not a plan that works.
  • 88olds
    88olds Posts: 4,447 Member
    I don’t know the name of the plan I started with in 2006. But we had the slide rule and men and women had the same number of points. I lost steadily to goal and the women at the meeting appeared to hate me for it. Or maybe there was some other reason.
  • whathapnd
    whathapnd Posts: 1,213 Member
    88olds wrote: »
    But we had the slide rule and men and women had the same number of points.

    I remember when I joined WW under the first iteration of PointsPlus. I'm a little over 5'6 and wanted to lose 40lbs. (Thirty to reacg WW goal.) I was given 29 daily points and was told it was the minimum for women. I asked "So a woman who is 5' tall and wants to lose 10lbs gets the same number of points as me?" The reply was "Yes." I told the lady that one of us would hate this program.

    BTW, I may have one of those slide rules somewhere. Happy to get rid of it if someone wants it.
  • minimyzeme
    minimyzeme Posts: 2,708 Member
    For what it's worth (certainly not very much), I encourage anyone who deemed themselves successful on prior plans to go back to them for the sole reason that success often breeds success.

    I don't believe we're here to be tested or tortured. I firmly believe as people step on the stepping stones of weight loss, they get encouraged by weight loss. They experience the NSVs. They feel better. They sleep better. They have better interactions with their doctors. They're less of a burden to themselves and probably, less of a potential problem to their families. Once that process starts, I think some re-evaluate the nuances of how they eat, how they "spend their points" , what they want to put in their body, how they want to incorporate activity (because it's easier to do so), etc.

    Much of my challenge in weight loss was in my head and learning to re-learn about my relationship with food and drink and the triggers for same. I lost the majority of my weight on PP. It took me a while to figure out what worked for me with the newer programs, but I realized my body really didn't care that WW changed up their gig. I could easily have kept on PP and it would have worked. I transitioned to the newer programs because I actually appreciated the weighted-emphasis on sugars and carbs. It's worked out OK for me, but if hasn't for you and you were on a program that was working, maybe going back to it is the best thing you could do for now.

    Options are always open down the road but if you're stuck and discouraged, I don't think it will work to try to force yourself to an eating style you don't like and doesn't work for you. Ultimately, we live better lives in a smaller body. Consider the method as a stepping stone. Use what works, evaluate the result and your happiness & satisfaction with it, and periodically adapt as necessary. That includes leaving WW behind (here we are on MFP, right?).

    I'm quite sure my view wouldn't be sanctioned by WW, but I get so damn jazzed when people get to experience the benefits of weight loss, I think the tradeoffs are worth zigging and zagging to your heart's content.
  • countcurt
    countcurt Posts: 593 Member
    I’ve never done Freestyle. I’m fairly certain I would hate it. There is no doubt the Freestyle approach is more unmoored from calories than prior plans. It so punishes saturated fats and sugars that it would be easy for me to be done with my points by noon every day.

    Even without considering sugars and the evils of trans fats, some the judgements are just ridiculous. And illogical. So, even though boneless skinless chicken thighs have only about 10 more calories per serving than breasts, they are not zero points. (I know lots of people who got fat by eating too many chicken thighs. Not.). Conversely, farmed salmon, which is much fattier than chicken thighs (and probably some cuts of beef not on the zero points list) is a zero points food.

    So, yeah, I could see an uncoupling between points consumption and weight loss, calorie counts, and satiety.

  • Al_Howard
    Al_Howard Posts: 7,661 Member
    And pork tenderloin is pointy, and about the same NI as chicken.
  • myallforjcbill
    myallforjcbill Posts: 5,473 Member
    countcurt wrote: »
    The magic in magical thinking is about what magically speaks to the individual.

    Well Played Sir, Well Played!

  • Rachel0778
    Rachel0778 Posts: 1,701 Member
    countcurt wrote: »
    (I think it was the FiberOne yogurt that officially put the fad over the top)

    I remember that! Although I got my favorite brownie recipe from this era of Weight Watchers (can of black beans, brownie mix, and water).

    I have a hard time with Freestyle feeling too restrictive unless you're eating off of the prescribed food list (and as someone who can easily eat 4 bananas a day, it didn't seem like a good fit for me!)
  • whathapnd
    whathapnd Posts: 1,213 Member
    countcurt wrote: »

    So, yeah, I could see an uncoupling between points consumption and weight loss, calorie counts, and satiety.

    Exactly. And when this uncoupling happens on the regular, the true learning of how/when/why weight loss happens goes away (or possibly accidentally gets replaced with magical thinking.)

    Learning the real facts/lessons is what increases the chance of long-term success. IMHO.

  • countcurt
    countcurt Posts: 593 Member
    Al_Howard wrote: »
    And pork tenderloin is pointy, and about the same NI as chicken.

    I simply assumed pork tenderloin would be on the list because it’s such a lean (and satisfying) protein. Are there any land animals on the zero points list?
  • Al_Howard
    Al_Howard Posts: 7,661 Member
    Don't know how long they'll keep this up, but....
    And no land animals.

    All 200 Zero Points Foods
    With over 200 zero Points foods to choose from, there’s always something delicious to eat.

    Here it is: an expanded list of zero Points foods.* All foods on this list form the foundation of a healthy eating pattern, so you don’t need to weigh, measure, or track any of them. Enjoy!
    Jump to: A B C D E F G H J K L M N O P R S T V W X Y
    A
    Apples
    Applesauce, unsweetened
    Apricots
    Arrowroot
    Artichoke hearts
    Artichokes
    Arugula
    Asparagus
    B
    Bamboo shoots
    Banana
    Beans, including adzuki, black, broad (fava), butter, cannellini, cranberry (Roman), green, garbanzo (chickpeas), great northern, kidney, lima, lupini, mung, navy, pink, small white, snap, soy, string, wax, white
    Beans, refried, fat-free, canned
    Beets
    Berries, mixed
    Blackberries
    Blueberries
    Broccoli
    Broccoli rabe
    Broccoli slaw
    Broccolini
    Brussels sprouts
    C
    Cabbage, all varieties including Chinese (bok choy), Japanese, green, red, napa, savory, pickled
    Calamari, grilled
    Cantaloupe
    Carrots
    Cauliflower
    Caviar
    Celery
    Swiss chard
    Cherries
    Chicken breast, ground, 98% fat-free
    Chicken breast or tenderloin, skinless, boneless or with bone
    Clementines
    Coleslaw mix (shredded cabbage and carrots), packaged
    Collards
    Corn, baby (ears), white, yellow, kernels, on the cob
    Cranberries
    Cucumber
    D
    Daikon
    Dates, fresh
    Dragon fruit
    E
    Edamame, in pods or shelled
    Egg substitutes
    Egg whites
    Eggplant
    Eggs, whole, including yolks
    Endive
    Escarole
    F
    Fennel (anise, sweet anise, or finocchio)
    Figs
    Fish: anchovies, arctic char, bluefish, branzino (sea bass), butterfish, carp, catfish, cod, drum, eel, flounder, grouper, haddock, halibut, herring, mackerel, mahimahi (dolphinfish), monkfish, orange roughy, perch, pike, pollack, pompano, rainbow trout (steelhead), rockfish, roe, sablefish (including smoked), salmon (all varieties), salmon, smoked (lox), sardines, sea bass, smelt, snapper, sole, striped bass, striped mullet, sturgeon (including smoked); white sucker, sunfish (pumpkinseed), swordfish, tilapia, tilefish, tuna (all varieties), turbot, whitefish (including smoked), whitefish and pike (store-bought), whiting
    Fish fillet, grilled with lemon pepper
    Fruit cocktail
    Fruit cup, unsweetened
    Fruit salad
    Fruit, unsweetened
    G
    Garlic
    Ginger root
    Grapefruit
    Grapes
    Greens: beet, collard, dandelion, kale, mustard, turnip
    Greens, mixed baby
    Guavas
    Guavas, strawberry
    H
    Hearts of palm (palmetto)
    Honeydew melon

    J
    Jackfruit
    Jerk chicken breast
    Jerusalem artichokes (sunchokes)
    Jicama (yam bean)
    K
    Kiwifruit
    Kohlrabi
    Kumquats
    L
    Leeks
    Lemon
    Lemon zest
    Lentils
    Lettuce, all varieties
    Lime
    Lime zest
    Litchis (lychees)
    M
    Mangoes
    Melon balls
    Mung bean sprouts
    Mung dal
    Mushroom caps
    Mushrooms, all varieties including brown, button, crimini, Italian, portabello, shiitake
    N
    Nectarine
    Nori seaweed

    O
    Okra
    Onions
    Oranges, all varieties including blood
    P
    Papayas
    Parsley
    Passion fruit
    Pea shoots
    Peaches
    Peapods, black-eye
    Pears
    Peas and carrots
    Peas: black-eyed, chickpeas (garbanzo), cowpeas (blackeyes, crowder, southern), young pods with seeds, green, pigeon, snow (Chinese pea pods); split, sugar snap
    Peppers, all varieties
    Pepperoncini
    Persimmons
    Pickles, unsweetened
    Pico de gallo
    Pimientos, canned
    Pineapple
    Plumcots (pluots)
    Plums
    Pomegranate seeds
    Pomegranates
    Pomelo (pummelo)
    Pumpkin
    Pumpkin puree
    R
    Radicchio
    Radishes
    Raspberries
    Rutabagas
    S
    Salad, mixed greens
    Salad, side, without dressing, fast food
    Salad, three-bean
    Salad, tossed, without dressing
    Salsa verde
    Salsa, fat free
    Salsa, fat free; gluten-free
    Sashimi
    Satay, chicken, without peanut sauce
    Satsuma mandarin
    Sauerkraut
    Scallions
    Seaweed
    Shallots
    Shellfish: abalone, clams, crab (including Alaska king, blue, dungeness, lump crabmeat, queen) crayfish, cuttlefish, lobster (including spiny lobster), mussels, octopus, oysters, scallops, shrimp, squid
    Spinach
    Sprouts, including alfalfa, bean, lentil
    Squash, summer (all varieties including zucchini)
    Squash, winter (all varieties including spaghetti)
    Starfruit (carambola)
    Strawberries
    Succotash
    T
    Tangelo
    Tangerine
    Taro leaves and shoots
    Tofu, all varieties
    Tofu, smoked
    Tomatillos
    Tomato puree
    Tomato sauce
    Tomatoes, all varieties including plum, grape, cherry
    Turkey breast, ground, 98% fat-free
    Turkey breast or tenderloin, skinless, boneless or with bone
    Turkey breast, skinless, smoked
    Turnips
    V
    Vegetable sticks
    Vegetables, mixed
    Vegetables, stir fry, without sauce
    W
    Water chestnuts
    Watercress
    Watermelon
    Y
    Yogurt, Greek, plain, nonfat, unsweetened
    Yogurt, plain, nonfat, unsweetened
    Yogurt, soy, plain


    * All fruits and vegetables are fresh (raw or cooked), frozen, or drained canned without added sugar or oil. All poultry and seafood are fresh (raw or cooked), frozen, or canned in 0 SmartPoints value sauces or spices, without added oil.


  • linmueller
    linmueller Posts: 1,354 Member
    countcurt wrote: »
    Al_Howard wrote: »
    And pork tenderloin is pointy, and about the same NI as chicken.

    I simply assumed pork tenderloin would be on the list because it’s such a lean (and satisfying) protein. Are there any land animals on the zero points list?

    I totally thought pork tenderloin was on the zero point list! When I was still tracking on WW I definitely ate it and I would have said without any doubt that it was zero. I'm baffled!
  • whathapnd
    whathapnd Posts: 1,213 Member
    All hail the pork tenderloin - - with a hearty side of Brussels sprouts!

    Weren't skinless chicken thighs on the Core zero point foods list but not on the PointsPlus Power Foods list? Core pre-dates my joining WW, but I seem to remember this being discussed on the board. I considered them zero when I did Simply Filling on PointsPlus.

  • countcurt
    countcurt Posts: 593 Member
    whathapnd wrote: »
    All hail the pork tenderloin - - with a hearty side of Brussels sprouts!

    Weren't skinless chicken thighs on the Core zero point foods list but not on the PointsPlus Power Foods list? Core pre-dates my joining WW, but I seem to remember this being discussed on the board. I considered them zero when I did Simply Filling on PointsPlus.


    Now I'm sure of the reason you had so much difficulty with Freestyle.

    Let's blame it on the pig. Or lack thereof.
  • countcurt
    countcurt Posts: 593 Member
    It’s funny that I just happened to come across this while going through some old papers:

  • Al_Howard
    Al_Howard Posts: 7,661 Member
    LOL
  • beachwoman2006
    beachwoman2006 Posts: 1,214 Member
    Winning Points.
  • myallforjcbill
    myallforjcbill Posts: 5,473 Member
    The good ole slide rule. Don't leave home without it