Can’t seem to get into ketosis
snydes
Posts: 2 Member
Hi, I’m having a very hard time getting into ketosis. I eat well with in my macros but I have a feeling I have been eating to much fat. But to contradict that, it seems like the only time I can get into ketosis is when I eat more fat? I stay under or at my calorie restriction and workout a little doing pushups and squats, etc. I understand how the keto diet works I just can’t seem to lose weight and stay in ketosis. I’m hoping for some great advise! Thanks in advance!
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Replies
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What are your net carbs per day? From what I understand, under 20 net will guarantee ketosis for pretty much anybody. Also, how do you know you are not in ketosis? Are you testing or can you feel the difference?2
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The easiest way to figure out where you are at is to take an RMR test if you have access to one. It will show your calories burned at rest but most important your fat/sugar burn percents. When I started I was a heavy sugar burner. On a retest a few months later I was at 77% fat burn. This entire time I averaged about a 0.8 on my blood meter for ketones but its all my body needed to get into the fat burn mode.
Don't stress too much about matching numbers you see online. Everyone is different. The real questions are: Are your clothes fitting better? Do you feel better? If yes to both then you are on the right track.
As a tip: shoot to meet or exceed protein targets. Fat/Carbs should be under.3 -
Are you using a Ketone blood meter? (how are you assessing being in Ketosis?) Regardless of what my blood meter reading is, the ONLY thing I've found to lose weight/burn fat is doing vigorous workouts while sticking to Keto. Doing light workouts seem to produce extremely lackluster results. However, doing a workout at OrangeTheory, or any vigorous group exercise class, or working out with a personal trainer 3x's or 4x's a week WITH Keto = 12-15 lbs loss in a month - practically guaranteed. For me that is extremely certain and reliable. The hardest part of the whole equation is not the Keto - I've got that wired - it's the vigorous exercise.2
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You don’t have to be in ketosis to lose weigh. It’s nice though for energy and mental clarity. Helps with appetite control as well. But if you’re thinking you’re not in ketosis because you aren’t losing weight that’s not a good indicator.
The very high fat keto diet was developed for epileptic children. To prevent them from losing weight. Some people can start keto that way and lose weight just fine for a while but many of us need to eat less fat. I’m not suggesting low fat. Just not adding fat to already high fat foods. I used to think I I had to buy 73% fat ground beef and that I couldn’t eat chicken breasts. That’s just not true. I wouldn’t suggest eating lean chicken all the time but if you have 80 or 85% fat beef for lunch and maybe you had an egg or two and a bit of cheese there’s no reason you can’t have lean meat at dinner. Cook with butter or olive oil or whatever healthy fat you like and it’s not a low fat meal. You don’t have to drown your food in fat. Just using normal cooking amounts in a diet that includes not exclusively the leanest beef will provide all the fat your body needs for health and it’ll help you utilize more body fat.4 -
If I am feeling full and not having hunger issues I will start to decrease added fat if I need to lose weight. Last week I cut about 300 fat calories out and increased my exercise a bit to end a brief stall. I look at it this way if my protein is constant than the remaining calories must come from fat or carbs. Therefore if I keep my carbs low the only number that needs adjustment is fat intake. Of course all numbers can be modified but fat is the one that gets my attention if I feel the others are in line.2
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Fast. 20 hour fasts work. First for your state of mind and it’s you against your brain telling you to eat every 5 minutes but after that 18 hours, you can ride the fasting train. Follow Low-Carb llama on Instagram. Fast with her and know you aren’t the only one out there fasting and having challenges!2
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The biggest issue I have with fasting is that breakfast is my favorite meal. I fasted for the second time yesterday mostly because of a blood test in the morning. It was about 18 hours and I was okay with it. The scale went up about a half a pound this morning so I ate a large breakfast to punish the scale.2
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If you are eating under 20-50 g of carbs a day, you are probably in ketosis.
How are you measuring? I used ketostix urine strips for a time. They were interesting but if I was well hydrated, it was very faint. Now that I've been ketogenic for a long time, often I don't show any ketones at all - and my carbs are only trace amounts from animal products.
I wouldn't worry about it unless you need higher ketones for medical issues. If that's the case, MCT/coconut oil or exogenous MCT esters or salts will raise your ketone levels. So will fasting in most people.2 -
If you are eating under 20-50 g of carbs a day, you are probably in ketosis.
How are you measuring? I used ketostix urine strips for a time. They were interesting but if I was well hydrated, it was very faint. Now that I've been ketogenic for a long time, often I don't show any ketones at all - and my carbs are only trace amounts from animal products.
I wouldn't worry about it unless you need higher ketones for medical issues. If that's the case, MCT/coconut oil or exogenous MCT esters or salts will raise your ketone levels. So will fasting in most people.
Iv been on keto about 7weeks and still showing in ketosis on the strips, does this mean i a am not fat adapted yet or have a fatty liver? Any advice welcome0 -
I have never tested for ketosis. I am reasonably confident I am there because I have been <20 net carbs a day since 2016. I was doing keto for weight loss and glucose control. I am in maintenance now, and calories are higher. I am still using the keto to keep my glucose numbers down without meds.
I have experimented with different macros to find a happy place in this WOE for me. I ended up with a higher protein macro than most. I don't intentionally add fats except for HWC in the first cup of coffee in the morning. There is a lot of attention paid to fats and fat bombs by some people, but I came to realize that my goal was to use the fat in the strategic fat reserve for energy, and I did not need so much in my diet.
Actual consumed macros for me yesterday were C 1%, F 51%, P 48%.3 -
Keep in mind that too much protein will turn to glucose as well. Eating too much fat is definitely not keeping you out of ketosis.
70-20-10 seems to be the perfect macro ratio for me. It keeps me in light ketosis.
I have lost 44 pounds and even though I’ve reached by goal weight quite a while back, the way I feel and my great numbers for cholesterol and blood pressure keep me eating this way
Have never felt better and more energetic at 535 -
If you are eating under 20-50 g of carbs a day, you are probably in ketosis.
How are you measuring? I used ketostix urine strips for a time. They were interesting but if I was well hydrated, it was very faint. Now that I've been ketogenic for a long time, often I don't show any ketones at all - and my carbs are only trace amounts from animal products.
I wouldn't worry about it unless you need higher ketones for medical issues. If that's the case, MCT/coconut oil or exogenous MCT esters or salts will raise your ketone levels. So will fasting in most people.
Iv been on keto about 7weeks and still showing in ketosis on the strips, does this mean i a am not fat adapted yet or have a fatty liver? Any advice welcome
Not at all. Some people continue to show ketones as long as they eat ketogenic. TBH, I think that's probably more common than showing negative or trace like I do.
At 7 weeks in, you may or may not be fat adapted. Some say it can happen as early as 4-6 weeks whereas others say it is often closer to 10 weeks.
https://blog.virtahealth.com/keto-adapted/
I have no idea on the NAFL. I think many of us who had a lot of abdominal obesity or insulin resistance may have had NAFL to a lesser or greater degree. Weight loss and LCHF will hep with it.1 -
There is a fairly comprehensive (and readable) discussion of the conversion of protein into glucose in this article:
http://journal.diabetes.org/diabetesspectrum/00v13n3/pg132.htm
tl:dr;
The basic premise is that protein does NOT spike blood glucose values because:
1. Protein is slow to digest, so it enters the blood stream very slowly
2. Protein ingestion causes an insulin increase (proven fact) which then causes any glucose converted from the protein to be stored very quickly in the muscles and liver thereby reducing the effect on blood sugar levels
What they also discovered is that in the human body, (theoretically) 100 grams of protein would yield at most 50 grams of glucose, but when studied in humans, research found that only 2-3 grams of glucose were actually synthesized from 50 grams of protein ingested by the test subjects.
Bottom line is that, yes, protein CAN be converted to glucose, however, it is a demand-driven process (meaning that if there is an immediate need for glucose it will happen), so most of the time (unless you are eating a literal ton of protein), there is no need to worry about protein/glucose conversion.6 -
There is a fairly comprehensive (and readable) discussion of the conversion of protein into glucose in this article:
http://journal.diabetes.org/diabetesspectrum/00v13n3/pg132.htm
Interesting... My daily target for protein is 175 g, and I have been warned about the turning into glucose thing before. I did not seem to be experiencing this convert to glucose phenomenon, but it is interesting to see how it works. Thanks for posting this link.
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The protein to glucose thing is overblown imo. I eat between 150-225 grams of protein a day and as a type 2 diabetic my A1C is 5.1 If anything eating more protein dropped my overall numbers.4
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There is a fairly comprehensive (and readable) discussion of the conversion of protein into glucose in this article:
http://journal.diabetes.org/diabetesspectrum/00v13n3/pg132.htm
tl:dr;
The basic premise is that protein does NOT spike blood glucose values because:
1. Protein is slow to digest, so it enters the blood stream very slowly
2. Protein ingestion causes an insulin increase (proven fact) which then causes any glucose converted from the protein to be stored very quickly in the muscles and liver thereby reducing the effect on blood sugar levels
What they also discovered is that in the human body, (theoretically) 100 grams of protein would yield at most 50 grams of glucose, but when studied in humans, research found that only 2-3 grams of glucose were actually synthesized from 50 grams of protein ingested by the test subjects.
Bottom line is that, yes, protein CAN be converted to glucose, however, it is a demand-driven process (meaning that if there is an immediate need for glucose it will happen), so most of the time (unless you are eating a literal ton of protein), there is no need to worry about protein/glucose conversion.
Glucose can also be made from the glycerol backbone of triglycerides (fats). I think the protein-makes-BG worry is linked to the fact that it raises insulin. I think those two are often joined in peoples minds.
I know that very high protein intake (200-300+ g) can raise BG levels a bit but still nothing like carbs will.
I've nticed that protein powder in my coffee in the morning will help bring down my BG (it's a bit high due to the dawn phenomenon). Whey protein raises insulin more than most other proteins so it quickly lowers my BG.
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There is a fairly comprehensive (and readable) discussion of the conversion of protein into glucose in this article:
http://journal.diabetes.org/diabetesspectrum/00v13n3/pg132.htm
tl:dr;
The basic premise is that protein does NOT spike blood glucose values because:
1. Protein is slow to digest, so it enters the blood stream very slowly
2. Protein ingestion causes an insulin increase (proven fact) which then causes any glucose converted from the protein to be stored very quickly in the muscles and liver thereby reducing the effect on blood sugar levels
What they also discovered is that in the human body, (theoretically) 100 grams of protein would yield at most 50 grams of glucose, but when studied in humans, research found that only 2-3 grams of glucose were actually synthesized from 50 grams of protein ingested by the test subjects.
Bottom line is that, yes, protein CAN be converted to glucose, however, it is a demand-driven process (meaning that if there is an immediate need for glucose it will happen), so most of the time (unless you are eating a literal ton of protein), there is no need to worry about protein/glucose conversion.
Glucose can also be made from the glycerol backbone of triglycerides (fats). I think the protein-makes-BG worry is linked to the fact that it raises insulin. I think those two are often joined in peoples minds.
I know that very high protein intake (200-300+ g) can raise BG levels a bit but still nothing like carbs will.
I've nticed that protein powder in my coffee in the morning will help bring down my BG (it's a bit high due to the dawn phenomenon). Whey protein raises insulin more than most other proteins so it quickly lowers my BG.
That bolded part was something that “protein turns into glucose” believer, Jimmy Moore thought he was going to prove when he did an N=1 experiment eating very high protein just this year.
He ended up proving the opposite of what he has said for years, though he somehow still holds onto his original belief. He was experiencing what he called hypoglycemia, low blood sugar on a daily basis. Finding that eating more protein actually lowered his blood sugar to a healthy 80-something (which he referred to as hypoglycemia) and that he still had ketosis level ketones every time he tested. Ultimately, he still believes protein turns to glucose just because his ketones were slightly lower than they previously were. But of course they were a bit lower, he wasn’t eating a boat load of fat every day like before.
Bottom line is that you want healthy, lower blood sugar and ketones. You want both of those. You don’t need ketones at very high levels unless you’re treating a neurological problem or maybe some other condition that benefits from them. Ketones do not create body fat loss. They do not equal body fat loss either. They just indicate that your body is in a state where it has to make its own glucose.
Jimmy showed that eating way above the necessary protein, a truly high protein diet well above 200g a day does not hinder ketosis or raise blood sugar. He also only admitted to having significant weight loss during his experiment when prodded for the information. He did not willingly include that fact in his reporting. He wanted to paint a picture where there was no good side to eating high protein and only negatives.
If you are unfamiliar with Jimmys keto journey, he has been keto for a very long time. About 12 years or so if I recall and lost 100+ pounds very quickly. He started a podcast, wrote books and started many keto businesses all focused on testing ketones and eating high fat foods to drive up ketones. Over this time he has gained almost all of his weight back despite remaining in ketosis with the goal of very high ketones, which he maintains by eating limited protein and very very high fat.
He is in complete denial that his method does not work for long term health.6 -
good read sunny!1
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »
There is a fairly comprehensive (and readable) discussion of the conversion of protein into glucose in this article:
http://journal.diabetes.org/diabetesspectrum/00v13n3/pg132.htm
tl:dr;
The basic premise is that protein does NOT spike blood glucose values because:
1. Protein is slow to digest, so it enters the blood stream very slowly
2. Protein ingestion causes an insulin increase (proven fact) which then causes any glucose converted from the protein to be stored very quickly in the muscles and liver thereby reducing the effect on blood sugar levels
What they also discovered is that in the human body, (theoretically) 100 grams of protein would yield at most 50 grams of glucose, but when studied in humans, research found that only 2-3 grams of glucose were actually synthesized from 50 grams of protein ingested by the test subjects.
Bottom line is that, yes, protein CAN be converted to glucose, however, it is a demand-driven process (meaning that if there is an immediate need for glucose it will happen), so most of the time (unless you are eating a literal ton of protein), there is no need to worry about protein/glucose conversion.
Glucose can also be made from the glycerol backbone of triglycerides (fats). I think the protein-makes-BG worry is linked to the fact that it raises insulin. I think those two are often joined in peoples minds.
I know that very high protein intake (200-300+ g) can raise BG levels a bit but still nothing like carbs will.
I've nticed that protein powder in my coffee in the morning will help bring down my BG (it's a bit high due to the dawn phenomenon). Whey protein raises insulin more than most other proteins so it quickly lowers my BG.
That bolded part was something that “protein turns into glucose” believer, Jimmy Moore thought he was going to prove when he did an N=1 experiment eating very high protein just this year.
He ended up proving the opposite of what he has said for years, though he somehow still holds onto his original belief. He was experiencing what he called hypoglycemia, low blood sugar on a daily basis. Finding that eating more protein actually lowered his blood sugar to a healthy 80-something (which he referred to as hypoglycemia) and that he still had ketosis level ketones every time he tested. Ultimately, he still believes protein turns to glucose just because his ketones were slightly lower than they previously were. But of course they were a bit lower, he wasn’t eating a boat load of fat every day like before.
Bottom line is that you want healthy, lower blood sugar and ketones. You want both of those. You don’t need ketones at very high levels unless you’re treating a neurological problem or maybe some other condition that benefits from them. Ketones do not create body fat loss. They do not equal body fat loss either. They just indicate that your body is in a state where it has to make its own glucose.
Jimmy showed that eating way above the necessary protein, a truly high protein diet well above 200g a day does not hinder ketosis or raise blood sugar. He also only admitted to having significant weight loss during his experiment when prodded for the information. He did not willingly include that fact in his reporting. He wanted to paint a picture where there was no good side to eating high protein and only negatives.
If you are unfamiliar with Jimmys keto journey, he has been keto for a very long time. About 12 years or so if I recall and lost 100+ pounds very quickly. He started a podcast, wrote books and started many keto businesses all focused on testing ketones and eating high fat foods to drive up ketones. Over this time he has gained almost all of his weight back despite remaining in ketosis with the goal of very high ketones, which he maintains by eating limited protein and very very high fat.
He is in complete denial that his method does not work for long term health.
Yeah, some of his stuff does not make a lot of sense.
I was thinking more of Peter Attia md with the higher protein. He noticed a slight difference. Slight is the keyword. Hopefully that myth that it has a big effect will die out soon.3 -
Easy test that doesn't require many subjects. Find a diabetic and have them eat these two meals over two days. On day 1 eat 200 grams of protein in 1 meal. On day 2 eat 200 grams carbs of potato in 1 meal. My money is on the potato meal showing the much much higher sugar reading.
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Thanks for mentioning low carb llama. What a great website she has too.blairpent8 wrote: »Fast. 20 hour fasts work. First for your state of mind and it’s you against your brain telling you to eat every 5 minutes but after that 18 hours, you can ride the fasting train. Follow Low-Carb llama on Instagram. Fast with her and know you aren’t the only one out there fasting and having challenges!
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Keep in mind that too much protein will turn to glucose as well. Eating too much fat is definitely not keeping you out of ketosis.
70-20-10 seems to be the perfect macro ratio for me. It keeps me in light ketosis.
I have lost 44 pounds and even though I’ve reached by goal weight quite a while back, the way I feel and my great numbers for cholesterol and blood pressure keep me eating this way
Have never felt better and more energetic at 53
Thank you for sharing. I've seen that many do great with super high protein levels, but I seem to do best at 75-20-5. When I tried to increase my protein (and perhaps I increased it too much) I started feeling like I did pre-keto. I was not a happy camper, and it took me awhile to get my good keto energy back when I went back to my lower protein amount.0
