Personally, I am of two minds about this. I have seen several prisons, and I know several people that work in them/have worked in them. I even have a former friend who is in prison now.

All that said, I think there needs to be a balance. Prison advocates have worked for decades to get prisons to where they are now. The idea now seems to be to use the prison system as a social work system as well - giving the inmates the opportunity to improve to the point that they don't relapse and come right back to prison after they are released.

While I agree with this idea, and applaud the efforts, only a subset of the total prison population will benefit from this. Numerous studies show only small, but significant, gains in reducing repeat offenders. I am also bothered that inmates have more opportunities than most school kids - many states, inmates can earn bachelor and master degrees for free, have better nutrition meals than can be offered through the school lunch programs, and have free healthcare.

Of course, despite the benefits of being in prison, I certainly don't plan on doing anything to put me in a position to take advantage of those benefits :laugh: .

Personally, I think we need to remove all the amenities - TV, weight rooms, libraries, internet access, etc. Take prison back to just being a consequence for your actions. You sit in a cell most of the day, get just basic meals, some time in a common area or outside to keep you from going insane from being in your cell, and that is it.

Next, reinstate the benefits programs that have a direct impact on reducing repeat offenders, but on a much smaller basis, and have a rigorous qualification process to identify those prisoners who are most likely to not become repeat offenders with the help. I'd initially limit it to first time offenders, with non-violent crimes. Tie performance in the program to an accelerated release, and give them a longer parole period, with requirements to show improvement once they are out.

I know many people in an out of prison and ive never once met one that was allowed to use the internet.
also tvs,and such you cant take everything away from these people it will lead to tension and eventually riots makeing it an unsafe enviroment for the gaurds and inmates alike

I do agree with that, but then I think about these prisons in Russia that I saw a show one.....they have never had a riot...at all....and no escapes......and I was actually shocked at that by the way they handle these prisoners....you would think they would lash out any chance they got, but it was quite the opposite...

That is such a diffrent culture than ours,if that were the way thing were here ther would be riots.I think the justice system is screwed they are giving to much time for minor offenses.My brother is a parolee he recently got sent up for a year for a violation. You know what his violation was he got a cab home that was pulled over for running a red light,the cab driver had meth an a gun on him so the cops arrested my brother and he was violated for it. hows that for god use of tax payer money that paid for his year in prison

The question isn't whether it is strict enough as much as whether it works to reform prisoners. It doesn't.

A little info about a Sheriff in Arizona, I think all jails should be run like this one!



Sheriff Joe Arpaio (in Arizona) is doing it RIGHT!! He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them. He stopped smoking and porno magazines in the jails. Took away their weights. Cut off all but "G" movies. He started chain gangs so the inmates could do free work on county and city projects. Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.
He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again but only let in the Disney channel and the weather channel. When asked why the weather channel he replied, so they will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs.
He cut off coffee since it has zero nutritional value. When the inmates complained, he told them.....this is a good one......"This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back."
He bought Newt Gingrich's lecture series on videotape that he pipes into the jails. When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series might explain why a lot of the inmates were in his jails in the first place. You have to love this guy!!
More on the AZ Sheriff:
With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record), the Associated Press reports:
About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed-wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to
their government-issued pink boxer shorts. On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up on their bunk beds or chatted in the tents, which reached 138 degrees inside the week before. Many were also swathed in wet, pink towels as sweat collected on their chests and dripped down to their pink socks. "It feels like we are in a furnace," said James Zanzot, an inmate who has lived in the tents for 1 1/2 years. "It's inhumane."
Joe Arpaio, the tough-guy sheriff who created the tent city and long ago started making his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is
not one bit sympathetic He said Wednesday that he told all of the inmates: "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and
they have to wear full battle gear, but they didn't commit any crimes... so shut your damned mouths."

All I can say is that I REALLY hope I never find out!

Personally, I believe we spend entirely way too much on our federal prison system. Most criminals that serve time in a federal prison come out better fed, fit, and equipped criminals. We need to just go medieval on our prisoners from now on. That way being sentenced to federal prison or jail will actually be a deterrent for big time criminals. No more being able to run your organized crime family from within prison walls.

A little info about a Sheriff in Arizona, I think all jails should be run like this one!



Sheriff Joe Arpaio (in Arizona) is doing it RIGHT!! He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them. He stopped smoking and porno magazines in the jails. Took away their weights. Cut off all but "G" movies. He started chain gangs so the inmates could do free work on county and city projects. Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.
He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again but only let in the Disney channel and the weather channel. When asked why the weather channel he replied, so they will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs.
He cut off coffee since it has zero nutritional value. When the inmates complained, he told them.....this is a good one......"This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back."
He bought Newt Gingrich's lecture series on videotape that he pipes into the jails. When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series might explain why a lot of the inmates were in his jails in the first place. You have to love this guy!!
More on the AZ Sheriff:
With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record), the Associated Press reports:
About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed-wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to
their government-issued pink boxer shorts. On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up on their bunk beds or chatted in the tents, which reached 138 degrees inside the week before. Many were also swathed in wet, pink towels as sweat collected on their chests and dripped down to their pink socks. "It feels like we are in a furnace," said James Zanzot, an inmate who has lived in the tents for 1 1/2 years. "It's inhumane."
Joe Arpaio, the tough-guy sheriff who created the tent city and long ago started making his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is
not one bit sympathetic He said Wednesday that he told all of the inmates: "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and
they have to wear full battle gear, but they didn't commit any crimes... so shut your damned mouths."

I think Sheriff Joe has got the right idea. The less of my tax dollars that gets spent on feeding, providing shelter, and sequestering criminals from normal society, the better. More county jails used to use chain gains. They need to use them more. I see lots of work that these prisoners can be doing, like picking up litter and mowing grass on state highways, to name a few.

Most criminals who land themselves in jail were not contributing members to society. Why not put them to use while they're inside?? Maybe then they'll gain an appreciation for contributing to the communities that they grew up in.

A little info about a Sheriff in Arizona, I think all jails should be run like this one!



Sheriff Joe Arpaio (in Arizona) is doing it RIGHT!! He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them. He stopped smoking and porno magazines in the jails. Took away their weights. Cut off all but "G" movies. He started chain gangs so the inmates could do free work on county and city projects. Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.
He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again but only let in the Disney channel and the weather channel. When asked why the weather channel he replied, so they will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs.
He cut off coffee since it has zero nutritional value. When the inmates complained, he told them.....this is a good one......"This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back."
He bought Newt Gingrich's lecture series on videotape that he pipes into the jails. When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series might explain why a lot of the inmates were in his jails in the first place. You have to love this guy!!
More on the AZ Sheriff:
With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record), the Associated Press reports:
About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed-wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to
their government-issued pink boxer shorts. On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up on their bunk beds or chatted in the tents, which reached 138 degrees inside the week before. Many were also swathed in wet, pink towels as sweat collected on their chests and dripped down to their pink socks. "It feels like we are in a furnace," said James Zanzot, an inmate who has lived in the tents for 1 1/2 years. "It's inhumane."
Joe Arpaio, the tough-guy sheriff who created the tent city and long ago started making his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is
not one bit sympathetic He said Wednesday that he told all of the inmates: "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and
they have to wear full battle gear, but they didn't commit any crimes... so shut your damned mouths."

I think Sheriff Joe has got the right idea. The less of my tax dollars that gets spent on feeding, providing shelter, and sequestering criminals from normal society, the better. More county jails used to use chain gains. They need to use them more. I see lots of work that these prisoners can be doing, like picking up litter and mowing grass on state highways, to name a few.

Most criminals who land themselves in jail were not contributing members to society. Why not put them to use while they're inside?? Maybe then they'll gain an appreciation for contributing to the communities that they grew up in.

It's posts like these make me realise that there's more than just an ocean between our two nations.

Shudder.

Yes, let's let crazed sadists run our prisons. That's going to work....

I'd rather see prisoners spend their days living as normal a life as possible. To me, jail/prison is meant to keep people from living in society. It is meant to take away their freedom. It shouldn't be a means of treating them as less a human being. I don't think they need internet and computer time, but I have no issue with decent meals and some form of entertainment. I know I'd go crazy being locked up in a cell all day with no interaction. That should not be the goal of our prison system.

I love Sheriff Joe! We lived in AZ for 5 years and I gladly voted for him every time. He's nuts but he's good at his job.
<<SNIP>>

Really? You knowingly supported someone you believe is nuts? Wow,,,

I guess sheriff Joe's plan to discourage immigration by decriminalizing the abuse and molestation of brown kids may land him in some hot water. Classy guy,,,

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

While riding my motorcycle I was hit by a kid in a car running from the cops. Ugly crash - if I hadn't gotten my motorcycle into the ditch I would've been killed. If I'd been in a car I probably would have been killed. As it is I climbed into the ambulance with a nasty compound fracture to the right wrist. The kid who hit me is doing 2 years for Aggravated Vehicular Assault.

To me the question is not "Is prison strict enough?" The question is "What are they going to do with this kid in 24 months to teach him not to do crap like that anymore?!?!" I still ride a motorcycle, this kid's only 24 years old, what are they doing to keep this from happening again?

I met him. talked with him. Decent kid, bad choices. We talk about "rehabilitation", but I don't like that term. This kid was never 'habilitated' in the first place. Somebody needs to teach him how to function as a member of a modern society. How do you do that?

Unfortunately, as we are finding out, we may have limited options. When the important windows of childhood development are missed, the result is often a permanently "impaired" individual. When children do not have adequate nutrition, emotional support, exposure to words and books, etc., they are left with deficits that will affect them for a lifetime. Ultimately, what we do not invest in our children, we will end up spending two, three, four times as much on prisons, police, etc.

I don't claim for a second that there are any easy answers.

His mom was crying at the sentencing, she yelled "you can't take him away" and tried to wrestle with the bailiff. The judge read his resume, and it was long but minor. Just a lifetime of bad decisions and it was clear that mommy & daddy had rescued him every time. Caught with a little pot, stole a car and took a joyride. Never hurt anybody (before this), just dumb stuff and never saw any real consequences. Maybe they can teach him something. I hope so.

And then once you've created that "more depraved criminal", he gets released. We absolutely cannot afford LWOP for every minor thug,,, these folks are going to get back out. What can we do that makes them not repeat? I don't know what the answer is, but I bet it ain't 23 hours a day in lockdown and 1 hour a day plotting revenge on the world with their fellow knuckleheads...

if its so great in prison, why arent you trying to get in there?

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