Graphic Abortion Ad to Air During Superbowl.
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So a woman who was raped should be forced to endure more trauma by carrying a pregnacy to term? Since she know that could be the outcome of the unwanted sex?0
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So as it stands now, it would be considered first degree murder, punishable usually by death or life in prison:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_punishments_for_murder_in_the_United_States
The deal is, women have to be abstinent to be 100% sure since there would be no recourse for failed birth control or bad decisions except having an unwanted pregnancy, giving the child up for adoption, or illegally seeking an abortion. I just don't know how realistic abstinence is, despite all that.
Yes. This is what they are asking of women and young girls. Sex only for procreation. Prison for the doctors and girls who seek out illegal abortions.
I do not agree and oppose it.0 -
Well, unfortunatley, if it's your car, you'll still have the consequences and responsibility of having to deal with it. Just like if someone rapes a woman at gunpoint. She didn't want the sex or the baby, but she has that responsibility now. Please do not think I do not have compassion for these situations. I can't imagine what it would be like to be raped and have to carry that baby. I would have to separate the ACT from the LIFE inside me, and want what's best for that LIFE. If I do not feel it's best to live with me because of the resentment of the pregnancy, then I'd hope to find the baby a loving family who wants a baby. I realize this sounds so pollyanna and all, but it's what I believe and how I feel. I'm not saying everyone has to agree with me, nor am I saying anyone who chooses to have an abortion is less than a human being than I am.Would if someone forces you by gun point into the car?0 -
You oppose it because you don't believe a fetus is a human life with rights yet, right? But, if it were a human life, it would have rights, thus killing it would be murder, right?I do not agree and oppose it.0 -
" If woman doesn't want to have a baby, she shouldn't be having sex." - Really?! I have to confess I'm rather at a loss for words here. The whole point of female contraception, and the fight for that to be legal in the first place, was that women are just as entitled as men to experience sexual desire, and to find intimacy, joy and pleasure in sex, without the fear of unwanted, unplanned pregnancy, which inevitably complicates and compromises their lives. If that point has really been missed, and we are still projecting Victorian-era views on women...I'm gobsmacked.
Maybe I should rephrase. If a woman doesn't want to be responsible for her actions, she shouldn't be doing those actions. . It's personaly responsibility. Period. And believe me, I love sex just as much as the next person and I'm not going to give that up ( :laugh: ) but I will be responsible if my precautions don't work out.
I'd like to also add that I was living in a disgusting oen bedroom apartment, no job and a had crappy boyfriend who cheated on me when I got pregnant. The situation certainly got worse before it got better but 4 years later, I have a great job, a wonderful boyfriend, a 3 bedroom house, a new car and I have had zero funding from the government or my son's MIA father. I improved my life that much in 4 years. I'd hate to think that I would probably be in a much worse position had I not been required to get my life together.0 -
Well, unfortunatley, if it's your car, you'll still have the consequences and responsibility of having to deal with it. Just like if someone rapes a woman at gunpoint. She didn't want the sex or the baby, but she has that responsibility now. Please do not think I do not have compassion for these situations. I can't imagine what it would be like to be raped and have to carry that baby. I would have to separate the ACT from the LIFE inside me, and want what's best for that LIFE. If I do not feel it's best to live with me because of the resentment of the pregnancy, then I'd hope to find the baby a loving family who wants a baby. I realize this sounds so pollyanna and all, but it's what I believe and how I feel. I'm not saying everyone has to agree with me, nor am I saying anyone who chooses to have an abortion is less than a human being than I am.Would if someone forces you by gun point into the car?
I didnt think you were saying that. But when does the point come when adoption isnt that much better of an option. How many kids in this country are already waiting for that loving family that for many never comes.0 -
" If woman doesn't want to have a baby, she shouldn't be having sex." - Really?! I have to confess I'm rather at a loss for words here. The whole point of female contraception, and the fight for that to be legal in the first place, was that women are just as entitled as men to experience sexual desire, and to find intimacy, joy and pleasure in sex, without the fear of unwanted, unplanned pregnancy, which inevitably complicates and compromises their lives. If that point has really been missed, and we are still projecting Victorian-era views on women...I'm gobsmacked.
Maybe I should rephrase. If a woman doesn't want to be responsible for her actions, she shouldn't be doing those actions. . It's personaly responsibility. Period. And believe me, I love sex just as much as the next person and I'm not going to give that up ( :laugh: ) but I will be responsible if my precautions don't work out.
I'd like to also add that I was living in a disgusting oen bedroom apartment, no job and a had crappy boyfriend who cheated on me when I got pregnant. The situation certainly got worse before it got better but 4 years later, I have a great job, a wonderful boyfriend, a 3 bedroom house, a new car and I have had zero funding from the government or my son's MIA father. I improved my life that much in 4 years. I'd hate to think that I would probably be in a much worse position had I not been required to get my life together.
Ok what about the women that had no choice0 -
So a woman who was raped should be forced to endure more trauma by carrying a pregnacy to term? Since she know that could be the outcome of the unwanted sex?
I feel differently in this case. All of my previous posts are based on consenual sex.
I believe in the morning after pill in this case.0 -
There's that too. Are the passionate anti-abortionists here with Rick Santorum when he said that victims of rape who fall pregnant should "make the best of it"?
I would encourage them too and that is what I would do. I do believe that blessings can come from really bad things that happen. That being said, as long as abortion is legal, I would encourage them to have the child but not blaim them if they didn't (not that I pass judgement on anyone who has/does have an abortion. If they were informed and are OK with it, then I disagree with the decision but do respect it)
I tend not to vote as far as abortion goes, I tend to not vote on it. I am against abortion from a moral stand point but I totally understand the desire for an abortion from a rape. Maybe sometime I'll start voting to make abortion illegal because I do believe that there are far more people who just "don't want" the baby than those that were raped but right now I can't bring myself to "force" someone to carry a pregnancy to term that was the result of a rape.
I'm gonna put you on the spot and feel free to say you don't want to talk about it. Was abortion a traumatic experience?So a woman who was raped should be forced to endure more trauma by carrying a pregnacy to term? Since she know that could be the outcome of the unwanted sex?
Being raped sucks (I know from experience) I can only imagine how much getting pregnant as a result would be. But (for me) having a baby vaccumed out of me would be WAY more traumatizing than carrying it to term and putting it up for adoption
(yes, I admit I am speaking in ignorance because I've never had/witnessed an abortion, so please feeel free to inform me)0 -
On a more political note, it bothers me that a man from Washington, who has never met me, believes he has the authority to tell me what I, an adult, can and cannot do with my own body, and what responsibilities I am expected to take on.
Here's my political view: My opinion is based on the fact that I am very protective of individuals rights. I don't care what a person does with THEIR life as long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of another, in this case, the child. Politicians that are pro-life because of moral and ethic reasons rather than religious reasons (like myself) have argued that there opinion is based on the right to life. Since I can't express myself enough, I'll add a statement that I strongly agree with.. Ron Paul,
"In the 1960s when abortion was still illegal, I witnessed, as an OB/GYN resident, the abortion of a fetus that weighed approximately 2 pounds. It was placed in a bucket, crying and struggling to breathe, and the medical personnel pretended not to notice. Soon the crying stopped. This harrowing event forced me to think more seriously about this important issue. That same day in the OB suite, an early delivery occurred and the infant boy was only slightly larger than the one that was just aborted. But in this room everybody did everything conceivable to save this child's life. My conclusion that day was that we were overstepping the bounds of morality by picking and choosing who should live and who should die. There was no consistent moral basis to the value of life under these circumstances. Some people believe that being pro-choice is being on the side of freedom. I've never understood how killing a human being, albeit a small one in a special place, is portrayed as a precious right."
So if we say it's ok to take a life- a beating human heart at infancy. Is it then ok to take a life-human beating heart, at 2 years, 10 years, 75 years of age? If a mother says it's her right to decide to have an abortion, why wouldn't a mother have the right to terminate her toddler or young adult? If a doctor is legally obligated to do everything in his power to keep a premature baby alive, why the double standard that say he/she can terminate one also?
Do you think that if a first trimester fetus or embryo dies in the womb it is the same to the mother as it would be losing her 5 year old? From my experience it is not even close to the same. Its already been established that people who are born have the same rights as anyone else. But the views on an embryo fetus or zygote vary from person to person, even amongst pro life.
The story of the 2 lb fetus is a sad one indeed. A 2 lb fetus would be more than likely a third term fetus and many people place more value on a third term fetus because they could live outside of the womb. And I am personally okay with some restriction on third term fetus abortions as long as medical exceptions are allowed. (even though I wish they would just labor them, but I am not a doctor, so I don't know all of the reasons that one might need an abortion at this time)0 -
Actually, there are many foster kids who aren't available to be adopted (just because they are in foster care does not mean they are available for adoption, I don't think the majority of Americans realize this fact). And there are waiting lists, not just for white babies, but for all nationalities, colors, races and ages. Sorry, but the laws and loopholes make adopting nationally not as easy as everyone thinks. And of course, there are those who complain about children needing to be adopted but not willing to lovingly start the adoption process themselves.
I didnt think you were saying that. But when does the point come when adoption isnt that much better of an option. How many kids in this country are already waiting for that loving family that for many never comes.0 -
There's that too. Are the passionate anti-abortionists here with Rick Santorum when he said that victims of rape who fall pregnant should "make the best of it"?
I would encourage them too and that is what I would do. I do believe that blessings can come from really bad things that happen. That being said, as long as abortion is legal, I would encourage them to have the child but not blaim them if they didn't (not that I pass judgement on anyone who has/does have an abortion. If they were informed and are OK with it, then I disagree with the decision but do respect it)
I tend not to vote as far as abortion goes, I tend to not vote on it. I am against abortion from a moral stand point but I totally understand the desire for an abortion from a rape. Maybe sometime I'll start voting to make abortion illegal because I do believe that there are far more people who just "don't want" the baby than those that were raped but right now I can't bring myself to "force" someone to carry a pregnancy to term that was the result of a rape.
I'm gonna put you on the spot and feel free to say you don't want to talk about it. Was abortion a traumatic experience?So a woman who was raped should be forced to endure more trauma by carrying a pregnacy to term? Since she know that could be the outcome of the unwanted sex?
Being raped sucks (I know from experience) I can only imagine how much getting pregnant as a result would be. But (for me) having a baby vaccumed out of me would be WAY more traumatizing than carrying it to term and putting it up for adoption
(yes, I admit I am speaking in ignorance because I've never had/witnessed an abortion, so please feeel free to inform me)
No I was not traumatized by the abortion at all. I never regreted it either. I went to sleep pregnant,woke up not I knew what happened when I was asleep I knew the stage the baby was in,but still felt i was making the best decision i could make at the time. That pregnancy was not the result of rape,but of the failure of my birth controls. I did have a pregnancy that was the result of date rape that I carried to term,hes going to be 16 and awesome,but the first 10 years of his life were not that easy and that is 100% my fault.0 -
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Being raped sucks (I know from experience) I can only imagine how much getting pregnant as a result would be. But (for me) having a baby vaccumed out of me would be WAY more traumatizing than carrying it to term and putting it up for adoption
(yes, I admit I am speaking in ignorance because I've never had/witnessed an abortion, so please feeel free to inform me)
I was raped too and did not go to the police. And worried for some time "what if". Luckily I did not have that experience, but I am sure I would have terminated it.0 -
But the views on an embryo fetus or zygote vary from person to person, even amongst pro life.
I'll agree to that but I don't understand it. A heartbeat is a heartbeat, I don't know what other proof people need that it is a living thing.0 -
No I was not traumatized by the abortion at all. I never regreted it either. I went to sleep pregnant,woke up not I knew what happened when I was asleep I knew the stage the baby was in,but still felt i was making the best decision i could make at the time. That pregnancy was not the result of rape,but of the failure of my birth controls. I did have a pregnancy that was the result of date rape that I carried to term,hes going to be 16 and awesome,but the first 10 years of his life were not that easy and that is 100% my fault.
WOW, i didn't realize that it was treated just like any other surgery! All the ralleys that I was dragged to as a kid made it seem like such a traumatizing experience! Thanks for sharing! And I'm glad that you and your son have a good relationship, it must have been hard raising him!0 -
Actually, there are many foster kids who aren't available to be adopted (just because they are in foster care does not mean they are available for adoption, I don't think the majority of Americans realize this fact). And there are waiting lists, not just for white babies, but for all nationalities, colors, races and ages. Sorry, but the laws and loopholes make adopting nationally not as easy as everyone thinks. And of course, there are those who complain about children needing to be adopted but not willing to lovingly start the adoption process themselves.
I didnt think you were saying that. But when does the point come when adoption isnt that much better of an option. How many kids in this country are already waiting for that loving family that for many never comes.
Not everybody is in a place to take on a child or another child. I know there are tons of children waiting to be adopted,ive also known quite a few that were adopted as babies in to horrible homes. I also know there is a good number of children in the foster care system now that were not adoptated as babies. All anyone wants is new borns. How about the pro lifers that toute adoption should be helping some of these kids out as well.0 -
So a woman who was raped should be forced to endure more trauma by carrying a pregnacy to term? Since she know that could be the outcome of the unwanted sex?
I feel differently in this case. All of my previous posts are based on consenual sex.
I believe in the morning after pill in this case.
Also not 100% effective, and probably not the first thought to occur to someone who has been raped... The MAP decreases in efficacy markedly with every 24-hours delay in taking it.0 -
How about the pro lifers that toute adoption should be helping some of these kids out as well.
I agree completely!0 -
No I was not traumatized by the abortion at all. I never regreted it either. I went to sleep pregnant,woke up not I knew what happened when I was asleep I knew the stage the baby was in,but still felt i was making the best decision i could make at the time. That pregnancy was not the result of rape,but of the failure of my birth controls. I did have a pregnancy that was the result of date rape that I carried to term,hes going to be 16 and awesome,but the first 10 years of his life were not that easy and that is 100% my fault.
WOW, i didn't realize that it was treated just like any other surgery! All the ralleys that I was dragged to as a kid made it seem like such a traumatizing experience! Thanks for sharing! And I'm glad that you and your son have a good relationship, it must have been hard raising him!
I think more women are traumatized by it than not,i just wasnt I dont know why. I feel more guilty for the mistakes made in my sons life than anything. He wasnt hard to raise i had alot of help,but i was not in a good place for a big chunk of his life. whats funny is me an him were talking the other day and he never even relized i was high for the his young years,but we lived with family so he was always surrounded by grandparents and cousins i think that made a big diffrence0 -
How about the pro lifers that toute adoption should be helping some of these kids out as well.
I also agree!I agree completely!0 -
I like the thought that people who aren't ready for children should just not have sex. Good luck with that. Every middle eastern religion has been trying to sell abstinence for the better part of 3,000 years, but I think it's really about to catch on. Especially now that people are getting married later and later in life. Completely, totally reasonable that people in their mid to late 20s should remain virgins.0
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Yep, I agree and many I know do. My husband and I would probably be rejected right now because of our job situation and income but I pray that one day we can adopt. I know how wonderful adoption can be and the drawbacks and struggles for the child(ren). As an adult I am dealing with a new set of adoption related issues now that I have a relationship with my first families (birth families, biological families, however you want to call them). I also acknowledge that if one views adoption as "helping out kids" they should not adopt. It should be chosen out of love and no other reason because a child feels that if they are adopted for any other reason.How about the pro lifers that toute adoption should be helping some of these kids out as well.
I agree completely!0 -
But the views on an embryo fetus or zygote vary from person to person, even amongst pro life.
I'll agree to that but I don't understand it. A heartbeat is a heartbeat, I don't know what other proof people need that it is a living thing.
Wouldn't it be considered a living thing BEFORE it has a heart beat?0 -
Let me also say that I had my son before I had my abortion,and after I had my son I tried to get my tubes tied. I knew I couldnt handle any more children I knew that I wasnt going to straighten my life out any time soon,but every single DR refused because I was 19. Insted they put me on birth control and told me to use condoms to block stds.0
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If you were a guy they would have let you get a V. My ex husband had one at 21. No one ever pulled the "You're too young" card.Let me also say that I had my son before I had my abortion,and after I had my son I tried to get my tubes tied. I knew I couldnt handle any more children I knew that I wasnt going to straighten my life out any time soon,but every single DR refused because I was 19. Insted they put me on birth control and told me to use condoms to block stds.0 -
I think you're awsome for straightening your life out and being the best mom you could be to your son.Let me also say that I had my son before I had my abortion,and after I had my son I tried to get my tubes tied. I knew I couldnt handle any more children I knew that I wasnt going to straighten my life out any time soon,but every single DR refused because I was 19. Insted they put me on birth control and told me to use condoms to block stds.0 -
If you were a guy they would have let you get a V. My ex husband had one at 21. No one ever pulled the "You're too young" card.Let me also say that I had my son before I had my abortion,and after I had my son I tried to get my tubes tied. I knew I couldnt handle any more children I knew that I wasnt going to straighten my life out any time soon,but every single DR refused because I was 19. Insted they put me on birth control and told me to use condoms to block stds.
Yeah It didnt make any sense to me. I also let the DRs know that I was a drug user,and they still fed me the "you might change your mind" line0 -
If you were a guy they would have let you get a V. My ex husband had one at 21. No one ever pulled the "You're too young" card.Let me also say that I had my son before I had my abortion,and after I had my son I tried to get my tubes tied. I knew I couldnt handle any more children I knew that I wasnt going to straighten my life out any time soon,but every single DR refused because I was 19. Insted they put me on birth control and told me to use condoms to block stds.
Yeah It didnt make any sense to me. I also let the DRs know that I was a drug user,and they still fed me the "you might change your mind" line
Wow, I think that is so wrong. Good for you though, even then you knew what was best for YOU.
BTW on a side note, I love your pic! What a difference!!0 -
[I'd also like to add that sex is a responsibility. Pregnancy is ALWAYS a risk. If you aren't prepared to have a child, you shouldn't have sex. Period. I don't want a child right now but I too am on birth control, in fact use two forms to be extra cautious. If for some reason I were to get pregnant right now. I would adjust my life accordingly and my significant other and I would do what was necessary to raise a child. As I did when I was 19 and found out I was pregnant and my life has only changed for the better. Abortion because it's convenient was never an option for me.
I guess I take issue with having to "adjust my life accordingly" because I would get pregnant despite taking multiple precautionary measures. Does that mean that married couples who aren't ready for children or don't ever want children have to live in a sexless marriage? I really don't believe that's fair.
I'm glad that having a child when you were 19 turned out to be a good thing in your life, but having a child at 22 for me isn't an option. I don't believe people should keep reproducing, but I don't try to force other women to have abortions or picket outside pregnancy wards.
Edited to Add: I can't say I really care if abortion is used "as birth control". As I've said before, I'd rather a woman have an abortion than give birth to a child that she isn't emotionally or financially ready to care for. If you're pro-choice, who cares?0 -
Let me also say that I had my son before I had my abortion,and after I had my son I tried to get my tubes tied. I knew I couldnt handle any more children I knew that I wasnt going to straighten my life out any time soon,but every single DR refused because I was 19. Insted they put me on birth control and told me to use condoms to block stds.
I have had this too. A man can get a vasectomy when he pleases, but if a woman under thirty wishes to get her tubes tied, they essentially laugh in her face. They want to send you to counseling, all this other nonsense because something's just not right with you as a woman if you don't want a little "bundle of joy". Every doctor I've talked to has essentially told me that one day I'll catch the baby rabies and regret my decision. Cute, because you can birth a child when you're 14 and no one tries to talk you out of that.0
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