Downhill marathon
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grinch031
Posts: 1,679
So I'm running a downhill marathon two months from now. I have been training for 3 months already, and training has been going better than planned. Not only am I hitting great times during training, but I'm actually motivated enough to run more than what's on my training schedule.
My PR is 3:55 from 1.5 years ago, and I've been running fairly continuously since then. My goal for this one is 3:40, but I am starting to think I could achieve a 3:30, but I'm a little at odds over what my starting pace should be. In the past, I almost always perform better doing negative splits, so I don't want to burn myself out too early if I can avoid it.
Anyways since I'm running a downhill marathon, I want to know if anyone has any recommendations on how I should handle this. In order to get 3:30, I need to average 8:00/mile. In order to get 3:40, I need to average 8:23/mile. Just about every single run I do in training is faster than 8:23/mile, because my pace for shorter distances is significantly better than for longer distances. For instance I ran a 15-miler at 7:55 pace with a moderate intensity in training, and I know that the reason my marathon pace is much slower is because in the past I was under-trained volume-wise. Also my PR for the half is 1:38 something which is about 7:33 pace.
As for the race, if I start too slow, I might prevent myself from getting 3:30 even if I'm capable. Now with this being downhill, I wonder if I can afford to start off faster than I normally would (like 7:45ish to build up a cushion) without burning too much energy.
Any thoughts?
My PR is 3:55 from 1.5 years ago, and I've been running fairly continuously since then. My goal for this one is 3:40, but I am starting to think I could achieve a 3:30, but I'm a little at odds over what my starting pace should be. In the past, I almost always perform better doing negative splits, so I don't want to burn myself out too early if I can avoid it.
Anyways since I'm running a downhill marathon, I want to know if anyone has any recommendations on how I should handle this. In order to get 3:30, I need to average 8:00/mile. In order to get 3:40, I need to average 8:23/mile. Just about every single run I do in training is faster than 8:23/mile, because my pace for shorter distances is significantly better than for longer distances. For instance I ran a 15-miler at 7:55 pace with a moderate intensity in training, and I know that the reason my marathon pace is much slower is because in the past I was under-trained volume-wise. Also my PR for the half is 1:38 something which is about 7:33 pace.
As for the race, if I start too slow, I might prevent myself from getting 3:30 even if I'm capable. Now with this being downhill, I wonder if I can afford to start off faster than I normally would (like 7:45ish to build up a cushion) without burning too much energy.
Any thoughts?
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i say that on race day you'll know what to do! you've got the training behind you, and if you can start off at an 8 min mile you'll know soon enough if you can maintain it. if you can't, step it back and aim for your 3:40 time instead of the 3:30 (you may end up pulling a 3:35).
i also think that if you're running 15 miles at 7:55 pace and you've put in more training for this run, then you'll be sweet.0 -
I don't have any recommendations, but maybe just a word about what to expect. I did LA last Sunday and there was a lot of downhill...one word ouch! My thighs hurt way sooner and way more than they do in a normal long run and I've never been so sore in my entire life afterwards.
I'm not really sure how you'd train for a downhill marathon, since too much down hill can cause all sorts of injuries. I'd say just finish your training as planned and be careful on race day...downhills can really make effort seem deceiving.0 -
Here's the thing, if you are really in 3:35 shape (for example) and you go out at a 3:30 pace you may well finish slower than 3:40. Neg or even splits is the way to go. IMHO a fast start to put time in the bank is a suicidal marathon strategy.
I would say head out at 3:40 pace, if you feel GREAT at mile 20, then pick up the pace for the last 10k and hammer it home.
FWIW, I can currently run 1:38/1:37 halfs in my sleep (untapered), but it has been ages since I've been under 3:30. I guess it depends on the rest of your training. I can't get anywhere close to the times McMillan say I should be able to hit.
As far as downhill goes, for me it works great for fast halfs, with marathons with downhills late in the race I find my legs are too trashed to take advantage of it.
Good luck either way!0 -
Here's the thing, if you are really in 3:35 shape (for example) and you go out at a 3:30 pace you may well finish slower than 3:40. Neg or even splits is the way to go. IMHO a fast start to put time in the bank is a suicidal marathon strategy.
I would say head out at 3:40 pace, if you feel GREAT at mile 20, then pick up the pace for the last 10k and hammer it home.
FWIW, I can currently run 1:38/1:37 halfs in my sleep (untapered), but it has been ages since I've been under 3:30. I guess it depends on the rest of your training. I can't get anywhere close to the times McMillan say I should be able to hit.
As far as downhill goes, for me it works great for fast halfs, with marathons with downhills late in the race I find my legs are too trashed to take advantage of it.
Good luck either way!
Yeah I still don't know what to expect. According to McMillan, I should be running a 3:28 or so full marathon. I know that in the past my training was sufficient for Half and insufficient for Full, but I've stepped it up this time around.
If it was a flat or hilly marathon, no doubt I'd likely go conservative on the pace from the start. But since its downhill, I was debating whether to go faster the first couple miles to take advantage, and then slow down to a normal pace so that I don't burn my quads out too much.
This weekend I ran a 16-miler at 8:26 pace with a friend. My friend bailed about 2 miles early because of foot pain, and I hit the last mile at about 6:55 with plenty of fuel left in the tank.
So if you are running 1:37 halfs un-tapered, what do you think you are capable of running a full in right now? A few weeks ago I ran a 1:42 half un-tapered, at a moderate intensity. I am pretty sure I would shatter my Half PR if I had a race coming up.0 -
Lately my fulls have been stuck in the low to mid 3:40s. I should be knocking out solid 3:35 or 3:30, but I'm not. Oh well, I either need to up my game or just keep using my fulls as training for solid halfs. We'll see how it plays out.0
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You say that u r running a downhill marathon...is it all downhill or is it mostly downhill the first half then tapering to a flat marathon? Is there any uphill? I have done Boston twice which starts off as a downhill race for the first 6 miles, but I have seen many runners go too fast then burn out at the end. I say be a little more conservative in the beginning by about 15 sec/mile then go a little under during the middle of the marathon then hit your 3:30 pace towards the last third. U don't want to get too far behind because it is harder to make up but u don't want to go too fast either. Downhill marathons do take a lot out of your quads...are u training on a similar course? Make sure u take ice baths after your long runs and any speed or tempo runs u r doing for faster recovery. Good luck!0
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You say that u r running a downhill marathon...is it all downhill or is it mostly downhill the first half then tapering to a flat marathon? Is there any uphill? I have done Boston twice which starts off as a downhill race for the first 6 miles, but I have seen many runners go too fast then burn out at the end. I say be a little more conservative in the beginning by about 15 sec/mile then go a little under during the middle of the marathon then hit your 3:30 pace towards the last third. U don't want to get too far behind because it is harder to make up but u don't want to go too fast either. Downhill marathons do take a lot out of your quads...are u training on a similar course? Make sure u take ice baths after your long runs and any speed or tempo runs u r doing for faster recovery. Good luck!
It is mostly downhill in the first half, then the second half tapers, but there is some rolling hills so people refer to it as a "fast but challenging" course.
I'm thinking of starting off at 3:35 and adjusting in the last third based on how I feel. I ran 19 miles yesterday at 7:57 which wasn't that challenging until about the last 2 miles so I'm feeling confident so far.0 -
Glad u had a great run! Sounds like u are set. I think going out at a 3:35 marathon pace is smart in the beginning. I have had a run coach for the past 5 years and I have learned a lot!0
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So after about 3 1/2 months of solid marathon training, this weekend I ran a 10K race. My goal was about 7:00 pace which is around 43:30 overall. I ran a 10K about 7 months ago and finished just over 45 minutes. So this race I ended up finishing in under 42 minutes, completely demolishing my goal and PR.
So I plugged that into McMillan and now my marathon time should be about 3:17. So I'm really starting to think McMillan is just plain wrong with the full marathon time. How is it even possible to improve my marathon time through training without also improving my shorter distances?0
